Relationships between members of the Norwegian royal family.

[Jacqueline]

Originally posted by Alexandria@Feb 22nd, 2004 - 10:35 pm
I think, too, that when you get into anything new there is a big learning curve. In Mette-Marit's case, as is the case now with Mary and Letizia, and all the princesses before them, their learning curve is endured publicly and recorded for all to see.

And I can't say that in Mette-Marit's position I wouldn't lose my temper, either. I remember the incident when photographers tried to take Marius' picture while he was playing in the park with friends -- the poor little boy! And as for the tantrum aboard the plane, having the fear of flying as she did your nerves would probably be shot to h*** anyway, but throw in some prying photographers and journalists and I'd throw a big hissy fit, too!

I agree Alexandria. Every single thing about them is constantly under a microscope.

I have to admit that MM may have behaved better than I would have as well. I really don't care for reporters or anyone who intrudes upon children and makes them feel uncomfortable. It's understandable that Marius will receive media attention because his mother is now CP of Norway, but he is an innocent and should be left alone as much as possible.

 

[Gabriella]

I think that to have class and elegance is not always in the way that you dress and how well you can smooze, but really in your actions. For this, I think that MM has alot of class and elegance. I have not always been her biggest fan, but in the past year or so, she has really impressed me. It certainly cannot be easy to live your whole life anonymously, then all the sudden be shoved in a fishbowl. Having your every move scrutinized and your past come back to haunt you, how can that be easy? I think that MM must have had the hardest time adjusting out of all of the recent Crown Princesses and Princess' to be. She won some major points with me by subjecting herself to a firing squad and admitting to her past behavior. I really felt sorry for her in her first few months of marriage. She went through what, for me, would be some pretty embarrassing incidents. She got that horrible sunburn, got caught losing her temper, and hurt her leg/knee (something to that effect, I don't really remember exactly what happened). To go through all of that, and still be standing, is a huge sign of character. I also think that she is a wonderful mother. She is obviously very protective of Marius, and seems to be very active in his life, instead of just handing him off to a nanny. I really think that she has handled herself well, and has become well-adjusted in her new life.

 

[Alexandria]

Originally posted by Gabriella@Feb 22nd, 2004 - 5:55 pm
I think that to have class and elegance is not always in the way that you dress and how well you can smooze, but really in your actions. For this, I think that MM has alot of class and elegance. I have not always been her biggest fan, but in the past year or so, she has really impressed me. It certainly cannot be easy to live your whole life anonymously, then all the sudden be shoved in a fishbowl. Having your every move scrutinized and your past come back to haunt you, how can that be easy? I think that MM must have had the hardest time adjusting out of all of the recent Crown Princesses and Princess' to be. She won some major points with me by subjecting herself to a firing squad and admitting to her past behavior. ... To go through all of that, and still be standing, is a huge sign of character. I also think that she is a wonderful mother. She is obviously very protective of Marius, and seems to be very active in his life, instead of just handing him off to a nanny. I really think that she has handled herself well, and has become well-adjusted in her new life.

Very nicely said, Gabriella. And you hit on (for me) a very important point, that unlike some of the other princesses and crown princesses, Mette-Marit was not exactly successful in her own right before marrying Haakon. Unlike Letizia, Maxima and Alexandra (Manley) who had university degrees and successful careers before meeting their respective princes, Mette-Marit had for the most part fluttered about with various jobs and a university program that she never completed.

And she did face a lot of harsh personal criticism for her past, such as the out of wedlock child, the partying, the drugs, the lack of education, etc. (Maxima faced some of this critcism, too, though it was not lobbied at her directly but because of her father's affiliations.)

And to be able to rise above all that harsh criticism with all these people watching your every move and wanting you to fail, would feel like being defeated before the race had even begun.

It does take a lot of personal courage and shows a tremendous sense of character to be able to rise about all that and go about your daily job -- while at the same time taking care of your young son. I, too, have always liked that Mette-Marit seems very active in Marius' life from taking him to school on his first day or playing soccer in the park with him -- I am looking forward to seeing similar pictures of Mette-Marit with Ingrid Alexandra.

 

[Jacqueline]

Gabriella, I agree with you completely. That is exactly what MM has-character. It would have been so easy for her to give up with everything that went on around her and all of the doubts surrounding her ability. This is one of the reasons why I am very disappointed with Princess Ragnhild's statements, because she has been away from Norway for so long that it really doesn't seem that she could possibly know her niece or nephew that well let along their spouses. Granted both chose unconventional spouses, they do seem to be very much in love at this point.

I think that Princess Ragnhild is wrong about MM and the things that Gabriella have mentioned prove that. MM has taken everything said about her with a grain of salt and perservered. I have to admire that. She has a wonderfully quiet tenacity about her that is inspiring. She had everything against, and she is still there despite what anyone tries to do to make her lose face. Strenght of character will win every time.

 

[Gabriella]

In my opinion, the worst part of Princess Ragnhilld's comments is her lack family loyalty. I believe that no matter how you may feel personally about something, you should NEVER publicize it. What a huge slap in the face! She is more than welcome to her opinion, and I'm sure that she is not the only royal in history to disapprove of another family member, but that is something that should never be discussed in public. Back to the issue of class, she has certainly shown her lack of it. If her statment's were meant to make people feel sympathetic towards her, I think she miserably failed. No matter how I might feel privately about certain family matters, there are just somethings that I would not discuss outside of it, even to my closest friends. Especially if I were in a position to have it heard by the general public.

 

[Jacqueline]

Originally posted by Gabriella@Feb 23rd, 2004 - 12:01 am
In my opinion, the worst part of Princess Ragnhilld's comments is her lack family loyalty. I believe that no matter how you may feel personally about something, you should NEVER publicize it. What a huge slap in the face! She is more than welcome to her opinion, and I'm sure that she is not the only royal in history to disapprove of another family member, but that is something that should never be discussed in public. Back to the issue of class, she has certainly shown her lack of it. If her statment's were meant to make people feel sympathetic towards her, I think she miserably failed. No matter how I might feel privately about certain family matters, there are just somethings that I would not discuss outside of it, even to my closest friends. Especially if I were in a position to have it heard by the general public.

Absolutely.

Family issues should remain within the family.

It is difficult enough being a public person having the the media constantly scrutinize you...then to have a family member aid them on is just far too much. Family members especially needn't give the media ammunition with which to work.

I understand her sentiment, and her bitterness as well, however, she would have been better off stating it to the individuals with whom she takes issue directly or writing them a letter if need be.

I certainly didn't feel sympathy for her. She may be a very mature woman and feels the need to say what she likes because theoretically no one can hurt her and she may also not care about what people think of her, but I was personally embarassed for her, moreso than for her brother, sister-in-law, and niece and nephew.

 

[norwegianne]

Family isssues should stay within the family, there is no sense in dragging the dirty laundry out for everybody to see. Especially when the dirt is nothing but an elderly lady's opinions. (Opinions that a lot of elderly, and not so elderly people in Norway share, but still...)

 

[mgrant]

Ladies,

Please allow me to make a comment about Princess Ragnhilld.

From what I read I saw a woman who might have some hard feelings about something from the past and like Sean put it, she's probably hurting about something that has nothing to with MM or her husband.

The things she said are hurtful and I commend her husband for trying to soften the blows. She's from a whole different era and things have changed since them. She apparently has not adapted to it very well.

Princess Ragnhilld hasn't murdered anyone, exposed horrible family secrets, or underminded the royal family to cause the entire monarchy to fall. The whole thing could probaly be solved if somebody in the family take time to talk to her, not the press corps or a representative for the family. It has to come from them to her. Somebody needs to talk to her and find out what's going with her. That's what families should do for each other regardless of anything that might have occurred. Maybe it's time for somebody to reach out and at least meet her halfway....would that be so bad?

 

[norwegianne]

Originally posted by mgrant@Feb 23rd, 2004 - 4:05 pm
The whole thing could probaly be solved if somebody in the family take time to talk to her, not the press corps or a representative for the family. It has to come from them to her. Somebody needs to talk to her and find out what's going with her. That's what families should do for each other regardless of anything that might have occurred. Maybe it's time for somebody to reach out and at least meet her halfway....would that be so bad?

King Harald stated that he had talked to her recently, and she had given him a birthday present.

I also think a valid point to make is that the interview was taped at an unfortunate time, around the Brazil visit, which would also cause some bitterness. That the intent with the interview was intended to show more about their situation living in Brazil than her relationship with her brother's children's spouses... also is a factor.

 

[Jacqueline]

Originally posted by mgrant@Feb 23rd, 2004 - 9:05 pm


Princess Ragnhilld hasn't murdered anyone, exposed horrible family secrets, or underminded the royal family to cause the entire monarchy to fall. The whole thing could probaly be solved if somebody in the family take time to talk to her, not the press corps or a representative for the family. It has to come from them to her. Somebody needs to talk to her and find out what's going with her. That's what families should do for each other regardless of anything that might have occurred. Maybe it's time for somebody to reach out and at least meet her halfway....would that be so bad?

Actually, I believe that her King Harald did speak to her about it at least that was his response when asked about it. It was posted earlier in this thread. He is a class act and took it with the proverbial grain of salt. He simply said that all families have their problem, unfortunately sometimes theirs simply play out in the press (or something to that effect). Nonetheless, he seems to be over it. I am sure that isn't the firs time that his sister has been hard on his family. She most likely has been saying things for years. She is bitter, so I would believe that she had been making comments in public for quite some time.

I agree that she is of a different time, however, so is her brother and he made the necessary adjustments to his children's choices of spouses. It is simply just another case of the older generation criticizing the younger as usual.

No, she may not have said anything to cause the monarchy to fall, but regardless of her age, it was in extremely bad taste for her to do so. I would think better of a woman of her generation and upbringing. No one has to meet her halfway. If she wants to be respected and have her opinion valued, then she should probably not air family business in public. It is asking a lot of anyone to accept you and embrace you and your beliefs when you publicly berate them. It would be nice if people could be that accomodating, but really it is unrealistic.

She also chose to do it right after her nephew and the family were celebrating the birth of his first child along with the people of Norway. It was very crude of her to do that at a time like this. Age and upbringing can only be blamed for so much. She is old enough to know what self control is and what to say to the media. Yes, I see her being embraced and a regular at family gatherings quite soon.

No one owes her an apology for choosing to live their lives and loving whomever they choose. You may be able to choose who you marry, but you love who you love. The heart is a strange thing and apparently Haakon and ML chose to love Ari and MM. Then they chose to marry them and here we are...

 

[Wisnu]

I don't have any sympathy to MM, what princess Ragnild comment was right. MM have no word to argue, just keep the mouth close and time goes by.

 

[Jacqueline]

Originally posted by Wisnu@Mar 29th, 2004 - 3:05 am
I don't have any sympathy to MM, what princess Ragnild comment was right. MM have no word to argue, just keep the mouth close and time goes by.

Uh..., old topic and I doubt that she would argue. No matter what her aunt-in-law says or anyone for that matter doesn't cause her to stop being the CP of Norway. If she's smart she brushes it off, which I am sure that she most likely does and lives her life. She should let her actions be her reply.

After all, she is the Crown Princess of Norway and I have a feeling that she will most likely be for a long time.

 

[Angel S.]

Originally posted by Alexandria+Feb 22nd, 2004 - 6:14 pm--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alexandria @ Feb 22nd, 2004 - 6:14 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Gabriella@Feb 22nd, 2004 - 5:55 pm
I think that to have class and elegance is not always in the way that you dress and how well you can smooze, but really in your actions. For this, I think that MM has alot of class and elegance. I have not always been her biggest fan, but in the past year or so, she has really impressed me. It certainly cannot be easy to live your whole life anonymously, then all the sudden be shoved in a fishbowl. Having your every move scrutinized and your past come back to haunt you, how can that be easy? I think that MM must have had the hardest time adjusting out of all of the recent Crown Princesses and Princess' to be. She won some major points with me by subjecting herself to a firing squad and admitting to her past behavior. ... To go through all of that, and still be standing, is a huge sign of character. I also think that she is a wonderful mother. She is obviously very protective of Marius, and seems to be very active in his life, instead of just handing him off to a nanny. I really think that she has handled herself well, and has become well-adjusted in her new life.

Very nicely said, Gabriella. And you hit on (for me) a very important point, that unlike some of the other princesses and crown princesses, Mette-Marit was not exactly successful in her own right before marrying Haakon. Unlike Letizia, Maxima and Alexandra (Manley) who had university degrees and successful careers before meeting their respective princes, Mette-Marit had for the most part fluttered about with various jobs and a university program that she never completed.

And she did face a lot of harsh personal criticism for her past, such as the out of wedlock child, the partying, the drugs, the lack of education, etc. (Maxima faced some of this critcism, too, though it was not lobbied at her directly but because of her father's affiliations.And to be able to rise above all that harsh criticism with all these people watching your every move and wanting you to fail, would feel like being defeated before the race had even begun.)

It does take a lot of personal courage and shows a tremendous sense of character to be able to rise about all that and go about your daily job -- while at the same time taking care of your young son. I, too, have always liked that Mette-Marit seems very active in Marius' life from taking him to school on his first day or playing soccer in the park with him -- I am looking forward to seeing similar pictures of Mette-Marit with Ingrid Alexandra. [/quote] And lets not forget that the other ladies came form well to do families who could help them out with education etc. It's hard for a single mother to continue an education, work & raise a child with no help. I think that just makes her a stronger more independent person.

It's easy to have a great education & career when you have money & connections. That's not to say the other ladies did not work hard, I'm sure they did but nothing compares to being a single mother & having to put food on the table. :flower:

 

[Jacqueline]

Originally posted by Angel S.@Apr 6th, 2004 - 4:41 pm


It's easy to have a great education & career when you have money & connections. That's not to say the other ladies did not work hard, I'm sure they did but nothing compares to being a single mother & having to put food on the table. :flower:

Very true, Angel S. Knowing a few single mothers myself, I can say that they all have stories tell, and hardly any are pleasant when it comes to describing their daily routines and worries.

 

[Duchess Sophie]

Is there still much media attention to Raghnild's comments???

 

[norwegianne]

Originally posted by royal_sophietje@Apr 6th, 2004 - 1:56 pm
Is there still much media attention to Raghnild's comments???

Virtually nothing. Of course, since the royal family's out of the country, there's not much royal news at all this week. But there hasn't been much at all in March, nor in April.

It was over as soon as the media got something else (*cough*Sven Høiby*cough*) to think about.

 

[carlota]

Originally posted by norwegianne+Apr 6th, 2004 - 2:34 pm--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (norwegianne @ Apr 6th, 2004 - 2:34 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-royal_sophietje@Apr 6th, 2004 - 1:56 pm
Is there still much media attention to Raghnild's comments???

It was over as soon as the media got something else (*cough*Sven Høiby*cough*) to think about. [/b][/quote]
were there any comments about him or about his attendance to ingrid's christening?

 

[agnessa]

Relationships between princess Ragnhild, Märtha-Louise and Haakon-Magnus

Hello! I've read from Wikipedia (Princess Ragnhild of Norwey) that Ragnhild critizied Märtha-Louise and Haakon Magnus for the cummoner spouses and she hoped that she die before Mette-Marit become queen... (It was said in TV2 in 2004). But she is also married with commoner and I can't understand why she is so cruel? Does anyone have the opinion about that or any kind of information?

 

[Mandy]

Hello everyone,

Several posts from a previous discussion on this subject have been moved from Princess Ragnhild current events thread.

Although the previous discussion may have veered in various directions, let's try to keep this discussion on track.

Please be respectful towards Princess Ragnhild even if you don't like her.

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[norwegianne]

Hello! I've read from Wikipedia (Princess Ragnhild of Norwey) that Ragnhild critizied Märtha-Louise and Haakon Magnus for the cummoner spouses and she hoped that she die before Mette-Marit become queen... (It was said in TV2 in 2004). But she is also married with commoner and I can't understand why she is so cruel? Does anyone have the opinion about that or any kind of information?

As I've said in earlier posts - it's not the fact that they are commoners, but rather the reputations they had when they married into the family, that seems to have made Princess Ragnhild bitter at the time. For someone whose grandfather (King Haakon) was concerned when his granddaughters went to parties - because it might give the impression that they were party princesses like Margaret of Great Britain - having two people who definitely were "party people" in the royal family must have hurt because of the memories connected to this. Also, an unwed mother might not be shocking to a young generation, but to the grandparents generation… it is viewed differently.

I say that it isn't the commoner aspect, because all three of King Olav's children married commoners, and Ragnhild has never seemed to have a problem with her sister-in-law or brother-in-law. Furthermore, her children have also married commoners, and she doesn't seem to have a problem with them either.

I'm inclined to say it is a difference in what generations view as acceptable/laudable behaviour. (And still, two years after the affair, I still think she might be right about Ari, but then again he seem to make Märtha Louise happy...)

The problem with the whole thing is that this is something that should never have been said in the press, imo.

 

[Empress]

All I can say is this - You can't help who you love. Princess Ragnhild, who also married a commoner, should not judge. I am sure that her husbands closet was not entirely free of skeletons, however small. Although I agree with Norwegianne, I don't think that it is about commoners or not, but that might very well exacerbate the situation. For that matter, I don't think anyone has the right to pass judgement on who other people love.

And yet again, airing dirty laundry in public. I fail to understand why people feel the need to do this.

 

[Alison20]

It is hard, when you have suffered from strict rules, to find that the next generation is allowed so much more freedom. (I remember being very upset with my parents when my four years younger sister was allowed to do things at 12 that I was only just being allowed to do at 16 - it still rankles all these years later). But I do think it was unwise of Princess Ragnhild to let her hurt at what she must have felt as a snub by the Norwegian RF on their Brazil trip take the form of publicly attacking Haakon and Martha-Louise.

 

[agnessa]

Thanks for all articles and thoughts about that theme, it's very interesting to read it. I think that nobody shouldn't say such things in public because this behave doesn't make nothing good. And when this generation of monarchy is having more freedom it's interesting to know what the next generation will be - the world and monarchy is changing and it's natural.

 

[sm1939]

I dont think she has any room to talk, didnt her husband have an affair , and a child out of wedlock ??? so how can she have a go at MM for being a single mother !!! for goodness sake , as they say " people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones" we arent living in the dark ages now. thank goodness times have changed and everyone has to change with it ,weather we want to or not !

 

[norwegianne]

I dont think she has any room to talk, didnt her husband have an affair , and a child out of wedlock ??? so how can she have a go at MM for being a single mother !!! for goodness sake , as they say " people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones" we arent living in the dark ages now. thank goodness times have changed and everyone has to change with it ,weather we want to or not !

DNA tests proved that the child was not Erling Lorentzen's, if I recall correctly.

 

[sm1939]

DNA tests proved that the child was not Erling Lorentzen's, if I recall correctly.

Im sure it proved that it was , thats why she stayed away at the kings birthday . ( i could be wrong ) but the point is he allegedly did have an affair , and did the king go to the press saying anything about her husband extra marital affair ...no! so I think she should just get on with her life and keep quite because no one is perfect .

 

[bbb]

after reading her comments it strikes me even being born royal doesn't give you class or decorum. she tried to demean her family, but demeaned herself. she does sound bitter and hateful about people she doesn't even know (if she's met them at all) picking on marius really makes me mad, he's a cool, very respectful and much loved child (imo by everyone in the royal family) who didn't need to be thrown under the bus (texas expression) to make her spiteful points.
in the class sweepstakes: commoner-1000 princess ragnhild- 0

 

[norwegianne]

Im sure it proved that it was , thats why she stayed away at the kings birthday . ( i could be wrong ) but the point is he allegedly did have an affair , and did the king go to the press saying anything about her husband extra ...no! so I think she should just get on with her life and keep quite because no one is perfect .

It was proven that he wasn't the father - http://www.kjendis.no/2007/05/16/500787.html But during the King's birthday, there still was a trial going on, and the case was around in the media. I suppose it was easier for both Harald and Princess Ragnhild if they stayed away.

Given that she can't control what her husband does - or did 20 years ago - it seems rather pointless to blame her for this.

I can very well understand her critique - imho, the problem is that she talked to the media about it.

 

[sm1939]

It was proven that he wasn't the father - Erling er ikke faren - kjendis.no But during the King's birthday, there still was a trial going on, and the case was around in the media. I suppose it was easier for both Harald and Princess Ragnhild if they stayed away.

Given that she can't control what her husband does - or did 20 years ago - it seems rather pointless to blame her for this.

I can very well understand her critique - imho, the problem is that she talked to the media about it.

I stand corrected wasnt to sure, .... yes you are right we cant blame her for what her husband does, but on the other hand then , she cant say things about the partners of her newphews and niece. ...... or as you said she can if she doesnt talk to the media !

 

[victoria200122003]

Relationship between Crown Princess Mette-Marit and Queen Sonja

What do you think that. I have heard that the queen dislike CP MM ,of course they will not show in the publish.