Question about titles

[rchainho]

What title would the future's husband of ingrid would have?

https://www.aftenposten.no/kultur/i/...id-den-foerste

[amaryllus]

Who says it will be a husband?

[Blog Real]

Originally Posted by amaryllus

Who says it will be a husband?

Yes that is also true. But in any case, it's still a few years before Princess Ingrid Alexandra gets married. It's too early to talk about your spouse's title.

[wartenberg7]

Originally Posted by rchainho

What title would the future's husband of ingrid would have?

https://www.aftenposten.no/kultur/i/...id-den-foerste

"King Ingrid"...?! ridiculous!

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by rchainho

What title would the future's husband of ingrid would have?

https://www.aftenposten.no/kultur/i/...id-den-foerste

Originally Posted by Blog Real

But in any case, it's still a few years before Princess Ingrid Alexandra gets married. It's too early to talk about your spouse's title.

I think it would be preferable to discuss it and publicly come to a decision before the arrival of any marriage candidates on the scene, as that will minimize any perceived personal discrimination for or against a specific partner, and the same applies to Sverre Magnus.

Originally Posted by amaryllus

Who says it will be a husband?

In the same vein, who says there will be a spouse? Royals who have remained unmarried until the end of their lives have been much more plentiful than royals who have married a person of their gender (no members of reigning royal houses as yet). It is also a possibility that the princess will die or lose her position before she reaches the age for marriage.

But as far as I can see, the article is not stating as a fact that there will be a husband. It is simply discussing the most likely scenario.

[amaryllus]

Wouldn’t it be Prince or Princess Consort? Why reinvent the wheel here.

[Blog Real]

I think this issue has to be discussed among all the royal houses and a consensus reached. And it may even already have been treated in secret.
If eventually Princess Ingrid Alexandra (just to give one example) marries a woman, what title would her wife have? I believe she would have the title of princess, mainly to distinguish herself from the title of the wife who is the monarch.
The issue of homosexuality in European, modern and 21st century royal houses has not yet arisen, but I don't think it is a really big problem with regard to titles and even society is already open-minded enough to accept it.

Originally Posted by amaryllus

Wouldn’t it be Prince or Princess Consort? Why reinvent the wheel here.

Exactly. Why complicate what is simple.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by rchainho

What title would the future's husband of ingrid would have?

https://www.aftenposten.no/kultur/i/...id-den-foerste

Most likely he will be given the Title HRH Prince on their Wedding Day.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by amaryllus

Wouldn’t it be Prince or Princess Consort? Why reinvent the wheel here.

Originally Posted by Blog Real

Exactly. Why complicate what is simple.

The spouses of the current King and Crown Prince are Queen and Crown Princess, not Princess Consort.

[amaryllus]

Ok. Not trying to open a can of worms but If such a thing came to be Queen Ingrid and Her wife Queen So and so just sounds silly and confusing. If A Queens husband is a Princes Consort logically and fairly her wife should be Princess Consort.

I mean it’s the 21st century and same sex Royals are going to happen sooner rather than later. Open title Discussion needs to start.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by amaryllus

Ok. Not trying to open a can of worms but If such a thing came to be Queen Ingrid and Her wife Queen So and so just sounds silly and confusing. If A Queens husband is a Princes Consort logically and fairly her wife should be Princess Consort.

A reigning Queen Ingrid and an Ingrid with a wife were made possible because Parliament changed the laws of succession and marriage, respectively, to remove discrimination by gender. For Ingrid to be denied, on the basis of her gender, the same right as her father and grandfather to confer an equivalent title on her spouse would be logically inconsistent with those changes (which is not to say it will not happen).

[amaryllus]

But you have to be practical as well. Having two Queens or Two Kings married to each other in one country will be confusing.

[Heavs]

King is still an automatically higher title than Queen, which is why husbands of a Queen Regnant are usually Prince Consort, so it's actually a case of gender bias in the opposite direction which means men have to take a lower title than their female consort counter parts.

I personally do think it would be awkward to say "here come the King and Queen" when it is the Queen who is Regnant, or at least in English it would be.

I suppose if they must make the term completely "equal" between men and women (which is a funny concept in a hereditary monarchy anyway) then just go with "Royal Consort". I suppose to make everything really gender neutral you could just call her "Monarch I-A".

As for if she married a woman and she was able to convey the same title that her father did on her mother then they would have to find some way of distinguishing between the Queen Regnant and Queen Consort without writing both out in full all time time otherwise it could get confusing.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Heavs

King is still an automatically higher title than Queen,

What do you mean by a "higher title"?

Originally Posted by Heavs

which is why husbands of a Queen Regnant are usually Prince Consort, so it's actually a case of gender bias in the opposite direction which means men have to take a lower title than their female consort counter parts.

The traditional gender bias is that women are perceived as being brought into the families of their husbands, and in consequence wives traditionally take their names, and titles if applicable, from their husbands and not the other way around. A male consort is perceived as not acquiring his wife's status automatically but being given a title in his own right (according to this logic a lower title is reasonable), in contrast to a queen consort, who is perceived as automatically acquiring the feminine equivalent of her husband's title.

Originally Posted by Heavs

I suppose if they must make the term completely "equal" between men and women (which is a funny concept in a hereditary monarchy anyway) then just go with "Royal Consort".

I can't see why gender equality would be incompatible with hereditary monarchy. Inheritance can be implemented equally between men and women.

Originally Posted by Heavs

I personally do think it would be awkward to say "here come the King and Queen" when it is the Queen who is Regnant, or at least in English it would be.

As for if she married a woman and she was able to convey the same title that her father did on her mother then they would have to find some way of distinguishing between the Queen Regnant and Queen Consort without writing both out in full all time time otherwise it could get confusing.

Originally Posted by amaryllus

But you have to be practical as well. Having two Queens or Two Kings married to each other in one country will be confusing.

"The Queen and King" or "the Queen and Queen Consort" would be the simple solution. Royal houses of Europe are accustomed to having multiple Queens, and less frequently multiple Kings, within the same royal house, thanks to widowhood and abdication.

[JR76]

Norwegian royal journalist and writer Trond Norén Isaksen has written an article in Aftenposten about the title of a potential future husband of Princess Ingrid Alexandra stating that "if the Princess marries a man he should have the title of king". He goes on writing that it was the custom in European monarchies until Queen Anne ascended the throne of England etc in 1702 and that there are nothing in the Norwegian Constitution stopping it from happening.
The article was written as a commentary on a piece by "language reporter" (?) Kristin Storrusten that I unfortunately haven't been able to read because of a paywall.

https://www.aftenposten.no/meninger/...r-kalles-konge

[An Ard Ri]

I'm sure there will be much debate as there are 3 future queen regnants it will be a long time before Princess Ingrid Alexandra of Norway and Princess Estelle of Sweden becomes queens.

Crown Princess Victoria of Sweden
The Princess of Asturias (Leonor)
The Princess of Orange (Catherine Amalia)

[JR76]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

I'm sure there will be much debate as there are 3 future queen regnants it will be a long time before Princess Ingrid Alexandra of Norway and Princess Estelle of Sweden becomes queens.



Crown Princess Victoria of Sweden

The Princess of Asturias (Leonor)

The Princess of Orange (Catherine Amalia)

As far as I can remember both laws in Spain and The Netherlands states that the husband of a female monarch is a prince. Naturally the Dutch law also states that the wife of a male monarch is a princess, but that didn't really work out did it?! The Swedish constitution is silent on the matter.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

I'm sure there will be much debate as there are 3 future queen regnants it will be a long time before Princess Ingrid Alexandra of Norway and Princess Estelle of Sweden becomes queens.

Crown Princess Victoria of Sweden
The Princess of Asturias (Leonor)
The Princess of Orange (Catherine Amalia)

Actually the formal title of Máxima is HRH Princess Máxima of the Netherlands. No difference between male and female consorts and the same title and style as her male predecessors Duke Heinrich von Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Prince Bernhard zur Lippe-Biesterfeld and Jonkheer Claus von Amsberg.

But in 2013 the Government stated that, as by tradition and social custom female spouses of titled gentlemen can be addressed by their husband's title and style, this does not exclude the spouse of the King.

So the opportunity to style Máxima with her formal title is now blurred by not referring with her very own formal title but by that of her spouse. Meaning that de jure there is gender equality in the treatment of spouses but it does not show in daily use.

[Blog Real]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

I'm sure there will be much debate as there are 3 future queen regnants it will be a long time before Princess Ingrid Alexandra of Norway and Princess Estelle of Sweden becomes queens.

Crown Princess Victoria of Sweden
The Princess of Asturias (Leonor)
The Princess of Orange (Catherine Amalia)

There are four future reigning queens, you forgot Princess Elisabeth.

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by Blog Real

There are four future reigning queens, you forgot Princess Elisabeth.

Yes I did indeed the duchess of Brabant .