Question about titles

[Tudur rose]

Originally Posted by BrazilianEmpire

I think you're missing - or trying to ignore - the fact that his sister will be The Queen of Norway one day.

Marius is blood related to two Royals by birth.

But he doesn't have royal blood himself ...

[BrazilianEmpire]

Originally Posted by Tudur rose

But he doesn't have royal blood himself ...

We were discussing if Marius is related or not to Royals, not if he has Royal blood or not.

[CyrilVladisla]

In 2002, with King Harald V's consent, Princess Martha Louise's title was changed from Her Royal Highness to Her Highness. Why was her title changed?

[Somebody]

Her HRH was removed. In Norway she is no longer a (royal) highness. It is just abroad that she is acknowledged as highness (just like her nephew prince Sverre Magnus).

Her style was removed so she could employ her non-royal activities more freely.

[An Ard Ri]

It also happened to both sisters of King Harald V following the marriages to commoners.

[Iolanthe]

Originally Posted by Somebody

Her HRH was removed. In Norway she is no longer a (royal) highness. It is just abroad that she is acknowledged as highness (just like her nephew prince Sverre Magnus).

That's interesting! I always assumed Sverre Magnus was an HH. A prince (or princess) without an HH (or HRH) is an interesting concept. Are there only HRHs in Norway (and no HHs)- so he can only be that or "just" a prince?
And does the Norwegian public really make a difference between an H(R)H prince(ss) and a plain prince(ss)? I would think that the title of a prince(ss) would be more important than an H(R)H for the most people...

[An Ard Ri]

3 of the sister of the King of Sweden lost the style of HRH upon marriage and are simply Princess x/Mrs X .

Princess Christina, Mrs. Magnuson
Princess Margaretha, Mrs. Ambler
Princess Désirée, Baroness Silfverschiöld

[Pranter]

Sverre is not the heir, his oldest sister is the heir right?


LaRae

[An Ard Ri]

HRH Princess Ingrid Alexandra of Norway is second in line to the Norwegian throne .

[Tatiana Maria]

Officially, she is HRH Princess Ingrid Alexandra, not using "of Norway". Only outside of Norway do the princesses and princes use a territorial designation.

Originally Posted by theroyalfly

Can you tell me what the constitution in Norway dictates as to how would Ingrid-Alexandra's husband will be called when she ascends the throne?

The Constitution does not state what spouses will be called. King Harald's decision on what Mette-Marit would be called after marriage was not announced until the wedding day.

Originally Posted by Stefan

But was there a question that she would not be called Crown Princess?

That appears to be the case. At the press conference held to announce the engagement of Crown Prince Haakon to Mette-Marit Tjessem Høiby, the interviewer asked for Mette-Marit's reflections on being "Norway's next queen". Ms. Tjessem Høiby opened her answer by clarifying that her title had not been announced.

[theroyalfly]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

Officially, she is HRH Princess Ingrid Alexandra, not using "of Norway". Only outside of Norway do the princesses and princes use a territorial designation.




The Constitution does not state what spouses will be called. King Harald's decision on what Mette-Marit would be called after marriage was not announced until the wedding day.



That appears to be the case. At the press conference held to announce the engagement of Crown Prince Haakon to Mette-Marit Tjessem Høiby, the interviewer asked for Mette-Marit's reflections on being "Norway's next queen". Ms. Tjessem Høiby opened her answer by clarifying that her title had not been announced.

If I'm not mistaken it was also a hot topic in the Netherlands as to what title Máxima would take after her husband ascends the throne and after much debate the Dutch parliament confirmed that Máxima would become queen consort of the Netherlands upon her husband's accession. Is there like a stipulation under the constitution that supports this?

And traditionally, Queen Regnant's husband of the Netherlands will be called "Prince" not even Prince Consort. So we already know the future of the future husband of Catharina-Amalia.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by theroyalfly

If I'm not mistaken it was also a hot topic in the Netherlands as to what title Máxima would take after her husband ascends the throne and after much debate the Dutch parliament confirmed that Máxima would become queen consort of the Netherlands upon her husband's accession. Is there like a stipulation under the constitution that supports this?

Do you mean the constitution of Norway? It is totally silent on the subject of royal spouses' status and titles, but with Mette-Marit now enjoying the title of Crown Princess (whereas Máxima never used the title Princess of Orange), it seems to be the expectation that she will become Queen (consort) in due time.

[theroyalfly]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

Do you mean the constitution of Norway? It is totally silent on the subject of royal spouses' status and titles, but with Mette-Marit now enjoying the title of Crown Princess (whereas Máxima never used the title Princess of Orange), it seems to be the expectation that she will become Queen (consort) in due time.

No I meant, constitution in the Netherlands.

But yes, Mette-Marit will become a Queen (consort.)

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by theroyalfly

If I'm not mistaken it was also a hot topic in the Netherlands as to what title Máxima would take after her husband ascends the throne and after much debate the Dutch parliament confirmed that Máxima would become queen consort of the Netherlands upon her husband's accession. Is there like a stipulation under the constitution that supports this?

And traditionally, Queen Regnant's husband of the Netherlands will be called "Prince" not even Prince Consort. So we already know the future of the future husband of Catharina-Amalia.

Máxima officially still is prinses Máxima der Nederlanden, prinses van Oranje-Nassau. These are her titles by law. But there is also someting like "social convention". It says that female spouses of titled gentlemen can be addressed with their spouse's titles: the wife of a Count is addressed as Countess, the wife of a Baron is addressed as Baroness, etc.. It is only in that tradition that Máxima can be addressed as wife of a King.

Her style is not HM The Queen, it is a mix of her courtesy style and her titles by law: Hare Majesteit koningin Máxima, prinses der Nederlanden, prinses van Oranje-Nassau.

[theroyalfly]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

Máxima officially still is prinses Máxima der Nederlanden, prinses van Oranje-Nassau. These are her titles by law. But there is also someting like "social convention". It says that female spouses of titled gentlemen can be addressed with their spouse's titles: the wife of a Count is addressed as Countess, the wife of a Baron is addressed as Baroness, etc.. It is only in that tradition that Máxima can be addressed as wife of a King.

Her style is not HM The Queen, it is a mix of her courtesy style and her titles by law: Hare Majesteit koningin Máxima, prinses der Nederlanden, prinses van Oranje-Nassau.

In English? Her Majesty Queen Máxima, Princess of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau? This is interesting.

Can we legally address her as 'HM The Queen of the Netherlands?'

Compared with other reiging European Queen Consorts? Is it only Máxima that has this distinct case?

[SLV]

Originally Posted by theroyalfly

In English? Her Majesty Queen Máxima, Princess of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau? This is interesting.

Can we legally address her as 'HM The Queen of the Netherlands?'

Compared with other reiging European Queen Consorts? Is it only Máxima that has this distinct case?

Yes, technically Maxima is still 'only' a princess, courtesy-title is queen.
Government reasoned that if the spouse of a queen is 'only' a prince, then in modern times the spouse of a king will 'only' be a princess. A matter of equality.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by theroyalfly

Can we legally address her as 'HM The Queen of the Netherlands?'

I think that is also done. For example when tey make a State Visit abroad. The british Court referred to the State Visit by the King and Queen of the Netherlands See here

It would sound strange if the referr to the State Visit by the King of the Netherlands and Queen Máxima, Princess of the Netherlands which would be the correct one form after her legal Titles.

[theroyalfly]

Originally Posted by SLV

Yes, technically Maxima is still 'only' a princess, courtesy-title is queen.
Government reasoned that if the spouse of a queen is 'only' a prince, then in modern times the spouse of a king will 'only' be a princess. A matter of equality.

This actually make sense. It's the same complicated thing as to when a Sovereign Queen like Beatrix and the Queens before her had to revert to their original rank and style.

Originally Posted by Stefan

I think that is also done. For example when tey make a State Visit abroad. The british Court referred to the State Visit by the King and Queen of the Netherlands See here

It would sound strange if the referr to the State Visit by the King of the Netherlands and Queen Máxima, Princess of the Netherlands which would be the correct one form after her legal Titles.

I thought so too. I think she's called with her legal titles as the correct form only when in the Netherlands but abroad, she can be addressed as 'HM The Queen of the Netherlands.'

This distinct case only applies to her right? Other current Queen Consorts are called 'HM The Queen of ________', right?

[Duc_et_Pair]

The revised Dutch Royal House Act 2002 states that the heir(ess) is The Prince (Princess) of Orange, with this making it gender neutral.

It also states that the spouse of the Sovereign and the spouse of the Heir have the title Prince (Princess) of the Netherlands.

More clear and gender neutral is not possible. But in 2013, faced with the reality that Máxima would be "less" than other female spouses, the Cabinet suddenly (and sadly) found it "undesirable" that such a situation might occur. (Weird enough the three successive male spouses were conveniently forgotten). Therefore this "solution" by using a courtesy style rather than the real legal titulature.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

The revised Dutch Royal House Act 2002 states that the heir(ess) is The Prince (Princess) of Orange, with this making it gender neutral.

.

It is the same in Spain with the title Prince/Prccness of Asturias. But still the consort a Prince of Asturias is styled Princess of Asturias. We will see if this will also be the case for a male spouse but as also the husbands of spanish Ducghesses are styled Duke of Albva etc. i think it is very likely.