Princess Ragnhild and family news and picture thread

[Prinsara]

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

She was never in line of succession to the throne. Her spouse would never be a member of the royal family. Even so, when she married a commoner her birthday was removed as a flag day.

Contrast to her brother who was going to be king. His spouse would be the queen consort of the country. There was far more pressure for him to marry a 'suitable royal bride'. Trying to convince his father a commoner could make a good future queen consort was another matter.

If she and her future children had a place in succession when she married, there may have been more pressure for her to marry a royal.

Line of succession or not, she was still a princess and it was very much "not the done thing" then for royalty to marry untitled commoners, and Olav was not particularly keen on using the fairly new NRF as a test bed. She could have made an impressive state marriage, for all we know, had she not been in love with Lorentzen.

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

Still, her seven-year wait for approval was not shorter by very much compared to her brother's nine years of waiting, so the objections must have been strong indeed.

From what I know both Olav and Märtha were opposed, so I'm still interested in hearing how their strong-willed daughter managed to do this. (Did she have to threaten to elope?)

I wonder what King Haakon thought.

[Alisa]

Sad news bit not unexpected. My condolences to his family.

[Countessmeout]

Originally Posted by Prinsara

Line of succession or not, she was still a princess and it was very much "not the done thing" then for royalty to marry untitled commoners, and Olav was not particularly keen on using the fairly new NRF as a test bed. She could have made an impressive state marriage, for all we know, had she not been in love with Lorentzen.



From what I know both Olav and Märtha were opposed, so I'm still interested in hearing how their strong-willed daughter managed to do this. (Did she have to threaten to elope?)

I wonder what King Haakon thought.

It seems it was actually Haakon and Martha who were opposed. Not her father.

King Haakon and Crown Princess Märtha went to considerable lengths to try to put an end to the relationship between Princess Ragnhild and Mr Lorentzen, while Crown Prince Olav apparently could not stand for his daughter’s tears – she was always the apple of his eye.
In the end Ragnhild got her way and on 15 May 1953 the happy couple walked down the aisle of Asker Church, just down the road from Skaugum. The problem of what if any official position should be given to the non-royal spouse of a princess was solved with the announcement that the couple would live abroad for the first years.
The choice fell on Rio de Janeiro in Brazil, where the Lorentzen family had business interest. The plan was that they would stay for two years, but two years eventually became the rest of their lives. The Princess relinquished the style “Her Royal Highness” and became known as Princess Ragnhild, Mrs Lorentzen. When abroad she was accorded the style of “Her Highness”.

Trond Norén Isaksen: At the road’s end: Princess Ragnhild of Norway, Mrs Lorentzen (1930-2012)


In the end it seems more 'it was just a new thing'. There were only a few examples prior to her like Patricia of Connaught.

While it took time it didn't require the kind of blackmail her brother required. As it was still much easier to accept as her husband would never be a royal anyways. It also made it much easier for her sister to marry a commoner.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

It also made it much easier for her sister to marry a commoner.

Princess Astrid herself expected though that it would make it more difficult for her to do the same (I believe the quote is somewhere on the blog), since she anticipated that the objections would intensify if the one-off turned into a pattern.

[JR76]

Haakon might not have been able to handle Ragnhild's tears but he was by principle, I've read from several sources, just as much against the marriage as his wife and his father was.
Astrid has said several times that she saw her sister's marriage as a one off and that neither she nor her brother ever thought that they would be able to marry commoners.

[An Ard Ri]

I always felt that Princess Ragnhild was bitter in later life about her loss of royal title/style following the marriages of her brother/niece/nephew to commoners and then that infamous interview.

[Countessmeout]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

Princess Astrid herself expected though that it would make it more difficult for her to do the same (I believe the quote is somewhere on the blog), since she anticipated that the objections would intensify if the one-off turned into a pattern.

She feared she would not be allowed. In the end that was proven untrue.

At the time she thought it would be an 'one off thing'.

The only issue with her wedding was that her husband was a divorcee. It took time to find someone who was willing to marry them. The Bishop of Oslo and the minister at Asker both refused due to his divorce. Thankfully the Bishop of Nidaros agreed to marry them.

None of the siblings are comparable:

-Ragnhild was the first one to want to marry a commoner
-Astrid: her sister opened the doors for her to marry a commoner, but she wanted to marry a divorcee which was just not done
-Harald: was the future king, and him marrying a commoner was a huge issue as his wife would be queen consort one day.

Haakon might not have been able to handle Ragnhild's tears but he was by principle, I've read from several sources, just as much against the marriage as his wife and his father was.
Astrid has said several times that she saw her sister's marriage as a one off and that neither she nor her brother ever thought that they would be able to marry commoners.

As was in my post Haakon was indeed opposed. But Haakon was her grandfather not her father. Her father is Olav.


Her perception at the time her sister was married was that it was an one off. That it would never be allowed again even for her (her brother is a different matter due to his place as future king). She ended up being wrong.

[Prinsara]

Since Haakon was still on the throne, the marriage would have required his approval, not just Olav and Märtha's, so if Olav somehow capitulated and played favorites with Ragnhild, then he still would have had to go talk his very proper father around, and I'm not sure how that came to be, other than Ragnhild and Lorentzen discreetly settling abroad.

All I can think is poor Olav ended up with a lot of experience in an area he never wanted... (and it's still going on today).

[JR76]

Originally Posted by Prinsara

Since Haakon was still on the throne, the marriage would have required his approval, not just Olav and Märtha's, so if Olav somehow capitulated and played favorites with Ragnhild, then he still would have had to go talk his very proper father around, and I'm not sure how that came to be, other than Ragnhild and Lorentzen discreetly settling abroad.

All I can think is poor Olav ended up with a lot of experience in an area he never wanted... (and it's still going on today).

Not only "discreetly settling abroad" but being actively "encouraged" to do so. In the end Ragnhild and Erling thrived in Brazil but she seems to understandably have become quite bitter about the whole experience.

[Prinsara]

Originally Posted by JR76

Not only "discreetly settling abroad" but being actively "encouraged" to do so. In the end Ragnhild and Erling thrived in Brazil but she seems to understandably have become quite bitter about the whole experience.

But surely they could have come back, especially after her sister married a divorcé? (I understand they were happy in Brazil and didn't want to.) Her bitterness puzzles me a bit. From one perspective, she got exactly what she wanted and lived pretty happily ever after, so...

While we can't figure out exactly how the wedding came about, Erling Lorentzen obviously must have loved her quite sincerely to have stuck it out and braved such upheaval. He seems to have been a courageous man who was richly rewarded. Good for him.

[eya]

"The formal death announcement for Erling Lorentzen has been published.

The funeral service will take place in Asker Church on 22 March 2021 at noon.
Only those invited can attend."


https://twitter.com/OAanmoen/status/...138632/photo/2

[An Ard Ri]

Asker Church was where the wedding of Princess Ragnhild and Erling Lorentzen took place in 1953 and also where the Princess is interred.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

Asker Church was where the wedding of Princess Ragnhild and Erling Lorentzen took place in 1953 and also where the Princess is interred.

Isn't also his brother.-in-law Johan Martin Ferner buried there?

[Countessmeout]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Isn't also his brother.-in-law Johan Martin Ferner buried there?

No. He was buried at Ris cemetary.

https://dagtho.blogspot.com/2015/02/...an-martin.html

His funeral was held at Holmenkollen Chapel. Astrid had been involved in the campaign to rebuilt the chapel when it was destroyed in 1992.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmenkollen_Chapel

[An Ard Ri]

The very simple grave of the late Princess Ragnhild at Asker Cemetery, Norway

https://images.app.goo.gl/DbDwf29VCowJhjvN6

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by eya

"The formal death announcement for Erling Lorentzen has been published.

The funeral service will take place in Asker Church on 22 March 2021 at noon.
Only those invited can attend."


https://twitter.com/OAanmoen/status/...138632/photo/2

The funeral will be livestreamed at this link:
https://jolstad.vareminnesider.no/me...b9c072b67a971b

[iceflower]

Photos of the family attending the funeral of Erling Lorentzen today, March 22, can be found here:



** ppe gallery ** gtresnews gallery **


** vg.no article: Begravelse for Erling Lorentzen nå – kongefamilien på plass **


** newsner.no article: Nå begraves Erling Lorentzen – kongefamilien er tilstede **


** dagbladet.no article: Erling Lorentzens begravelse: Trosset sykmeldingen

[Tatiana Maria]

Were the tolling of the bell and the presence of the national flag customary for funerals in Norway, or were they honors due to him as a war veteran or a former member of the Royal Family?

It is good to see that his adopted country was represented, with the message from the Brazilian ambassador and the Brazilian flag alongside the Norwegian flag draped over his coffin.

I didn't know that Erling Lorentzen continued to advocate for strong military defense and to mentor younger generations of special forces soldiers even as a civilian.

[An Ard Ri]

Looks like a nice family turn out for Erling Lorentzen at Esker Church.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

Looks like a nice family turn out for Erling Lorentzen at Esker Church.

According to Historian Trond Noren Isaksen unfortunately Haakon Lorentzen and his Family could not attendas they live in Brazil due too Covid. But his sisters are both living in Notway at the Moment and could therefore attend.