General News and Information for the Norwegian Royal Family: 2003 -

[0325.Mikael.0929]

Originally Posted by Princess_Eleanor

I think the difference is that, as you say, Märtha Louise chose to become a private business person as opposed to a working member of the royal family. I think that precisely because of the small size of the Norwegian Royal Family, she would have been very welcome to had she wanted.

When she made that decision, she left the Royal House and gave up her HRH. I suppose it was decided, that for the next generation it would be easier for Sverre Magnus not to be a member of the Royal House or have an HRH title from the beginning. It makes things a bit clearer. I think they've made it rather obvious that he is not expected to take up royal duties as an adult but will rather choose and make his own career.

The question of spares is a difficult one for all of royal Europe. I think it is nice for Magnus to know that he can choose his own path in life and not be a spare until he's basically "no longer needed".

On the other hand, even for a country with a relatively small population, I think the Norwegian Royal family have gotten themselves into a spot where the whole workload rests on the shoulders of 2 octogenarians and one other person = Haakon, with Mette-Marit being ill and unable to conduct too many duties. It will probably mean that Ingrid will have to step up young but there might also be a point at which Haakon will have to almost everything by himself. So there is also that.

By the way, I don't think it's that Märtha Louise would be incapable of conducting royal duties. I have watched her, she was raised a Princess and it shows. She knows quite well how to conduct herself on engagements and what to answer in interviews - if she wishes. It's that sometimes she does not wish to conduct herself in that way
But even if she wanted to, which I don't think she does, as long as the shaman is her partner, I don't think she would be acceptable to the Norwegian public as a working royal.
Notably, I believe she hasn't done any public engagements since the shaman scandal erupted last May, before that she always did some in addition to her private career.

In a way that's quite good for Sverre Magnus as he get to have freer lives. But what about Prince Oscar? Will he be a racer like his uncle?
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I also didn't know that Mette Marit is battling a chronic disease with no cure, I feel sorry for her. This will be a difficult and tough fight for her, and the Norwegian people will be praying for her.

[eya]

"On a trip with the Crown Prince" on TV 2 Sumo.

"The Crown Prince's morning routine. How many times do you press "snooze" on your mobile before getting up? . The mornings of the Crown Prince are not so different from most people - with the exception of presidential lunches then of course

The Crown Prince Haakon describes the King as funny and easy to love, but what about the Crown Prince himself?"


https://www.facebook.com/7679924749/...1850108672495/

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by iceflower

King Harald and Queen Sonja have received the coronavirus vaccine, the Palace has announced today, January 13:

** kongehuset: Vaksinering av Kongeparet **

Originally Posted by eya

And Princess Aastrid too.


"Princess Astrid (88) has been vaccinated today, the Palace informs."


https://www.nrk.no/nyheter/kongepare...dag-1.15325738

Norwegian historian Dag T. Hoelseth's blogpost regarding the exceptions being made:

https://dagtho.blogspot.com/2021/01/...sonja-and.html

At a press conference today the Minister of Health and Care Services, Bent Høie, stated that he was pleased that the king and queen had received the vaccine. Obviously an exception was made for Their Majesties, as they are only in the third priority group. Høie said: «– The Government has offered the royal family vaccination due to their role. [...]

On Dagbladet's question on what it would take for individuals to get an exception from the ordinary order of vaccination, Høie answered: «– The fact that they are in the royal house, and it is not many people who are, but I think the Norwegian people will show an understanding for it. We have persons in the royal family who belong to a high risk group among others because of their age, so it is important, Høie explained.»

For the record, King Harald and Queen Sonja, both 83, belong to the royal house, while Princess Astrid, Mrs. Ferner, 88, is a member of the royal family. There will always be people who will complain about the royals receiving privileges, but if the various comments made in the social media today should be regarded as representative, the vast majority seem to accept the reasons why an exception was made.

[eya]

Both Crown Prince Haakon and Princess Martha Louise honour their mother Queen Sonja today for the Women's Day

https://twitter.com/OAanmoen/status/...744384/photo/1

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMKUldggr2U/

[rchainho]

https://www.tv2.no/a/13910470/


Does anyone has photos of Uvdal?

The royal family goes to a cabin at Easter

It will be cabin Easter for the royal family. King Harald and Queen Sonja travel to Jotunheimen, while the Crown Prince's family will spend the holiday in Uvdal.

[Blog Real]

Originally Posted by rchainho

https://www.tv2.no/a/13910470/


Does anyone has photos of Uvdal?

Here is a photo:
https://image.klikk.no/2249600.jpg?i...20&height=1080

[rchainho]

New information about vaccines:

https://www.abcnyheter.no/nyheter/no...e-vaksinedoser

The Royal House offered several vaccine doses

[rchainho]

The Norwegian royal family has ended up in the middle of a public conflict: It is storming around the royal train.

https://www.svenskdam.se/kungligt/no...t-brak/7596911

[Blog Real]

Originally Posted by rchainho

The Norwegian royal family has ended up in the middle of a public conflict: It is storming around the royal train.

https://www.svenskdam.se/kungligt/no...t-brak/7596911

Will the Norwegian royal family stop using the royal train?

[Muhler]

Talk about red tape!

The NRK intended to use the royal carriage more often, for the benefit of the environment and to show an example.
But the rails in Norway no longer belongs exclusively to the state and that's also the case for the various engines and train sets.
So supposedly you can't just attach the royal carriage to whatever train that drives on whatever stretch.
On top of that it has been decided to place the royal carriage in a museum.

- So each time the NRF will ride by train, it has to be pulled out of the museum and that some sort of logistic puzzle needs to fit in order to have the carriage attached to various trainsets at various points.
- Oh my head!!

I don't see how that can be such a big problem. I mean so long as there are no technical hindrance, like the with of the tracks, attach the thing to a "pig" (a locomotive that shift carriages around, it's called "rangere" in Norwegian/Danish not sure about the English expression) and call it a special train and everybody should be happy, right?

Had Royal Norway still been around, he would have given us a vivid explanation as to how this could evolve into a huge public issue in Norway.

[Tatiana Maria]

Thank you very much for the summary.

Originally Posted by Muhler

I don't see how that can be such a big problem. I mean so long as there are no technical hindrance, like the with of the tracks, attach the thing to a "pig" (a locomotive that shift carriages around, it's called "rangere" in Norwegian/Danish not sure about the English expression) and call it a special train and everybody should be happy, right?

Had Royal Norway still been around, he would have given us a vivid explanation as to how this could evolve into a huge public issue in Norway.

Indeed, if Royal Norway still visits from time to time, please know that you are greatly missed.

I suppose time will tell whether this is another storm in a teacup.

To judge from the report by Oskar Aanmoen in Royal Central, which seems to be the basis for the Svensk Damtidning article, it seems the potential energy usage of the new arrangement is one stumbling block.

Labour parliamentarian Sverre Myrli has heavily criticised the complexity of handling the royal carriage. He has always believed that the railway reform has resulted in an unnecessarily complicated and responsibility-powdered train services. Last week, he asked the following question to the Minister of Transport: “Who owns the royal carriage? Who is responsible for operating the carriage after the train traffic has been put out to tender, to various operators? How is the operation of the trolley financed? And which of the many actors now on the railway must be involved when the carriage is to be used?”.

Knut Aril Hareide, Minister of Transport, answered: “It is the train-company ‘Vy’ who today owns the royal carriage. Operations and administration have until today partly been financed through traffic agreements between the state at the Norwegian Railway Directorate. But this only applies until further notice. According to the plan, the carriage will be transferred to the Railway Museum in Hamar during this year. In the future, the museum will be responsible for its operation. When the museum takes over ownership and operational responsibility, the use of the royal carriage will be agreed between the museum and the operator on the relevant section – on request from the Palace».

[...]

Hamar train museum, where the train car will be located, is one and a half hours by train away from the capital city of Oslo, where the royals are usually located. The Norwegian Royal Family has said they want to use the train more in the future to help limit emissions with their cars, something they have been strongly praised for.

https://royalcentral.co.uk/europe/no...debate-160899/

[Prinsara]

Perhaps if the issue is framed as that or alternately everyone driving a Tesla, it might become less of a deal?

[Muhler]

I fear a number of in particular Norwegian opinion makers won't accept anything less than the NRF members walking to where ever they need to be - preferably with bare feet.

That's the other coin of village mentality. Often the big picture is lost in nitpicking.

Seen from the outside it makes perfect sense for the NRF to use a train carriage as a supplement to the royal yacht.
Using a carriage or two with a sitting room, office, small kitchen, bathroom and sleeping quarters would serve as a fine base for members of the NRF when on the move up and down Norway.
With an additional carriage or two for the staff, it would IMO be a much cheaper solution than hotels or flying back and forth.
At night the special train can be parked somewhere outside a town and secured by a platoon of the local Home Guard.
And the NRF will have a place they can retire to in private.

[Tatiana Maria]

I may be mistaken, but from Oskar Aanmoen's summary I have the impression that the critique is not directed towards the royal family but towards the government, for causing the new arrangements for the carriage to potentially be so inefficient that the environmentally-conscious royal family might refuse to use it.

[Muhler]

Also the royal family.
There was an opinion in Dagbladet, arguing that the NRF don't need a special carriage. They can book a carriage according to need. - Problem solved.
The royal carriage belongs in a museum and should stay there. - It was almost implied the royal family should be confined to a museum as well...

- But that's an argument I've seen before in the Norwegian press. There is no need for special arrangements for the NRF.
The same thing about the royal yacht. The NRF can rent a ferry/yacht according to needs. Having a royal yacht floating around makes little economic sense, are the arguments.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Muhler

Also the royal family.
There was an opinion in Dagbladet, arguing that the NRF don't need a special carriage. They can book a carriage according to need. - Problem solved.
The royal carriage belongs in a museum and should stay there. - It was almost implied the royal family should be confined to a museum as well...

- But that's an argument I've seen before in the Norwegian press. There is no need for special arrangements for the NRF.
The same thing about the royal yacht. The NRF can rent a ferry/yacht according to needs. Having a royal yacht floating around makes little economic sense, are the arguments.

Thank you for this information.

Is there no authoritative expert or institution which could carry out an unbiased comparison of the possible costs of each option?

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

Thank you for this information.

Is there no authoritative expert or institution which could carry out an unbiased comparison of the possible costs of each option?

I plead ignorance, your honor.

I guess an unbiased report could be made if say the Parliament requested an independent firm to conduct it.
Politicians, papers and organizations can all be suspected of having an agenda, I suppose.

[Prinsara]

I'm going to blame King Olav for this. He's the one who decided taking the train with normal people was a good idea and should be publicized. See what you started, Olav?

Really, this is only topped in asinineness by the Rio-controversy in Sweden. The train carriage exists; let them use it; do you politicians really have nothing better to focus on? (I doubt it.)

[Muhler]

Indeed.

Alas, I think professional opinion-makers have to be in the news, otherwise what's their purpose?
And the NRF is something that will give nationwide publicity.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by 0325.Mikael.0929

[...] but the difference is that Carl Philip and his nephew Oscar remained members of the Royal House, yet Sverre Magnus wasn't born a member of the Royal House. I wonder what makes the difference between Sweden and Norway.

Originally Posted by Prinsara

It's a rather bizarre question to ask, when if you go back to a period of about thirty years, the Swedish line of succession was mostly-underage Carl Gustav and heroically-remaining-single Bertil.

I think that makes Sweden-at-the-time smaller than Norway now.

A lot of your answer is probably just "luck, circumstances, and letting women succeed".

But Mikael was not asking about the line of succession, but why Prince Carl Philip is a working member of the Swedish royal house whereas Prince Sverre Magnus is not a member of the Norwegian royal house and is expected to lead a private life, when both princes are in the line of succession and are the spares of their generation. Given that Sweden and Norway shared many cultural similarities, it is not a bizarre question at all.

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

Simple different countries, different monarchies. The monarchies don't fit some cookie cutter mould. They follow the constitution of their country.

In this case the constitutions are not the source of the difference in treatment. Neither Norway nor Sweden regulates membership of the Royal House or who is or is not a working member of the monarchy in their Constitutions or other statutes. That is the reason why King Harald V was able to remove Princess Märtha Louise from the Royal House in 2002 and King Carl XVI Gustaf was able to remove his grandchildren from the Royal House in 2019, without action from Parliament being needed.

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

The difference between Sweden and Norway was in Sweden it was done retroactively. Like the UK, the law was worded so that it was dated to when the process was started instead of when the law was passed. In Sweden that meant while the law was not passed until January 1980, it was retroactive to the date the process started before Victoria was born. Meaning that Victoria was heir to the throne. In the UK though the law was passed in 2013, it applies to any children born after 2011. This wasn't the case with Norway.

Neither Sweden nor the UK changed to absolute primogeniture retroactively. In Sweden absolute primogeniture was dated to January 1, 1980 and applied to descendants of King Carl XVI Gustaf. In the UK the new laws were dated to March 26, 2015 and applied to children born after October 28, 2011.

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

Martha Louise did not choose a private life from the start. She very much had a role in the royal family for years. Like Anne in the UK, her husband simply didn't gain a title or role, and either did her children. It wasn't until 2002 that she started paying taxes and her HRH status was removed to allow her more freedom in the business world.

Princess Märtha Louise married after her change in status. Had she still been a member of the Royal House when she married, her demotion would have happened upon marriage.

Originally Posted by Princess_Eleanor

On the other hand, even for a country with a relatively small population, I think the Norwegian Royal family have gotten themselves into a spot where the whole workload rests on the shoulders of 2 octogenarians and one other person = Haakon, with Mette-Marit being ill and unable to conduct too many duties.

I would say three octogenarians: Princess Astrid remains a part-time working royal for now.

Originally Posted by 0325.Mikael.0929

Since Ragnhild and Astrid had no rights of succesion at the time, they don't need to worry about being disqualified from the line of succesion because they weren't on the line at all.
And hence they married commoners and got to live their private lives with their family. Their families have never considered to be royals (similar to John Ambler's and Tord Magnuson's families).
-
But Harald V is a very different case where he is the heir and is the only one in line for the Norwegian Throne in the 1960s. He has dated Sonja Haraldsen for nine years, and his love, fidelity and determination towards Sonja made Olav V accept the marriage. At 32 Sonja gave birth to Märtha Louise and at 34 to Haakon Magnus.

Although they were not in the line of succession, the princesses' determination to marry commoners (and in Princess Astrid's case a divorcé) was also controversial and their marriages were only accepted after seven years and five years of courtship respectively. In addition Princess Ragnhild and her husband were pressured into moving abroad after their marriage because of the difficulties surrounding their marriage. There are some links on the subject in the thread on Princess Ragnhild.