Was King Baudouin really in love?

[Peaches]

I've often heard that King Baudouin was in love with his step-mother, Princess Lilian. Is there any proof of this besides the alleged taped recording of phone conversations? Also, one of the posters of this message board mentioned that Queen Fabiola managed to lure Baudouin away from Lilian's control - this is where I got another assumption from. Also, after Fabiola and Baudouin's honeymoon, King Leopold and Princess Lilian took all the furniture out of the castle, so when the newlyweds came back, they came back to an empty castle.

Is there any time limit on the availability of information? (eg. White House information is kept secret for 30 years.)

 

[auntie]

I think that if anything, maybe he was a bit besotted, or looked for a doting mother figure in Princess Lilian.

 

[Hannelore]

Those are disgusting lies. Of course he wasn't in love with Lilian, he considered her as a mother, isn't a boy allowed to kiss his mother on the cheek anymore?? What's this world coming to then?

There exist no taped converstaions. It wasn't Fabiola who "lured himw away" from his stepmother but the Belgian government who finally saw a way of getting Boudewijn away from his parents' political influence. This didn't mean he had to loose contact with them, but Lilian was very radical.

Lilian coudn't stand Fabiola and was very displeased she had to move away from Laken to Argenteuil when Boudewijn got married. This meant she would lose the political influence she and Leopold III had over Boudewijn. She was also unpleased about the fact that Boudewijn only told them about his engagement at the very last moment, just before informing the press. That's why she took all the furniture with her, a way of saying: we don't want to have anything to do with you anymore. She was a very selfish and stubborn woman, and was the cause that Leopold III indeed didn't have any contact anymore with the children from his first marriage for many years.

 

[Peaches]

Those are disgusting lies. Of course he wasn't in love with Lilian, he considered her as a mother, isn't a boy allowed to kiss his mother on the cheek anymore?? What's this world coming to then?

That's why I posted the thread - to find out the truth in the allegations. People talk and when the wheel continues to spin, the credibility of the information gets jumbled up and so it's hard to separate fact from fiction.

I'm not from Belgium and no where near it, so information on European royalty is scarce and hard to come by.

 

[episcogal]

I reopen this thread to give photographic evidence of their chemistry even as the engagement was just announced in September 1960. This is for anybody reading this thread from the archive.

BEFORE:

AFTER:

He looks completely over the moon to me.

If these two weren't truly in love then nobody has achieved the state.

 

[maria-olivia]

I don't like this thread because it are rumors.
Lilian was the first Lady of Belgium from 1951 to 1960.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Most likely King Baudouin searched for warmth and love and found it with his stepmother Princess Lilian. Any rumous of a love-affairs is beyond any reality. The young Baudouin experienced a strict, conservative and religious upbringing and it was out of the question he would ever have engaged into a love-affair with his stepmother. Especially as from May 1940 until July 1950 King Leopold III was only in name King (the country being occupied, then the royal family being exiled, then the regency by the King's brother) and any scandal was the last thing the royal family could use, seeing the unsecure state of the Belgian monarchy.

Yes, King Baudouin felt deeply in love. Not with Princess Lilian but with the Spanish aristocrat Doña Fabiola de Mora y Aragón, daughter of the Marqués de Casa Riera, Conde de Mora. Their marriage, however without offspring, proved to be a most harmonious and deeply-loved one.

 

[maria-olivia]

You are completely right and well written Duc et Pair ! Grateful Thanks

 

[rominet09]

Most likely King Baudouin searched for warmth and love and found it with his stepmother Princess Lilian. Any rumous of a love-affairs is beyond any reality. The young Baudouin experienced a strict, conservative and religious upbringing and it was out of the question he would ever have engaged into a love-affair with his stepmother. Especially as from May 1940 until July 1950 King Leopold III was only in name King (the country being occupied, then the royal family being exiled, then the regency by the King's brother) and any scandal was the last thing the royal family could use, seeing the unsecure state of the Belgian monarchy.

Yes, King Baudouin felt deeply in love. Not with Princess Lilian but with the Spanish aristocrat Doña Fabiola de Mora y Aragón, daughter of the Marqués de Casa Riera, Conde de Mora. Their marriage, however without offspring, proved to be a most harmonious and deeply-loved one.

I really agree and thank you for having said is so well !

 

[NotHRH]

Have any theories been brought forth why QF had 5 miscarriages/stillborn(s)? One thought is there may have been a Rh incompatibility (she Rh- and he Rh+); which would open a can of worms that nobody dare think about as she has always been described as a very pious Catholic. A chromosomal anomaly in either one or both could also have contributed to their futile attempt to have children. Must have a very sad situation for both of them.

 

[grevinnan]

Have any theories been brought forth why QF had 5 miscarriages/stillborn(s)? One thought is there may have been a Rh incompatibility (she Rh- and he Rh+); which would open a can of worms that nobody dare think about as she has always been described as a very pious Catholic. A chromosomal anomaly in either one or both could also have contributed to their futile attempt to have children. Must have a very sad situation for both of them.

It is quite irrelevant why they were not able to have any children. To speculate as to why at this stage is digging too deep into their privacy and private matters. There are many couples that are perfectly compatible but still are not able to have children so a specific reason is not necessarily something that is available.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Have any theories been brought forth why QF had 5 miscarriages/stillborn(s)? One thought is there may have been a Rh incompatibility (she Rh- and he Rh+); which would open a can of worms that nobody dare think about as she has always been described as a very pious Catholic. A chromosomal anomaly in either one or both could also have contributed to their futile attempt to have children. Must have a very sad situation for both of them.

There was no chromosomal or Rh anomaly. According to the late Queen's biographer Guy Michelland (La Reine Blanche) Fabiola suffered from a malformed uterus and ovaries. Any pregnancy would have had only about a 20% chance of going to term and she herself would have had only a 10% chance of surviving it according to her Swiss obstetrician. Indeed, she came close to death during at least two of her five doomed pregnancies.

A cruel fate for this warm, imaginative woman who so adored children and who would have made such a fantastic mother.

The fact that she knew the odds were against her and kept trying to provide her husband and the country with heirs says a lot about her determination and courage, imo.

 

[episcogal]

You put that quite lovely, MM23.

 

[Jacknch]

It was such a sad situation for Fabiola and Baudouin and surely only the strength of their love and devotion kept them going. I worked with a woman who was in a similar situation and it was heartbreaking for her. Over the months, she would be thrilled to be pregnant and all the hopes it would bring, and each time after two or three months she miscarried and it took more months for her to recover. But she kept trying and trying putting herself through the emotions. Very brave, like Fabiola.

 

[Yashal]

Don't know about his step-mother but I'm sure he did love Fabiola. Didn't she tried to convince him to get an annulment so that he could marry again and have a heir but Baudouin categorically refused? If that's not a sign ot true love...

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I have not the slightest doubt that King Baudouin and Queen Fabiola had a deep profound love for each other.

 

[Sancia]

Don't know about his step-mother but I'm sure he did love Fabiola. Didn't she tried to convince him to get an annulment so that he could marry again and have a heir but Baudouin categorically refused? If that's not a sign ot true love...

I didn't knew it. It makes me feel heartbroken. My husband and I don't have children and I don't know if we wil have one (or more) someday, but never would I and he only think to get an annulment and have children with someone else.

 

[episcogal]

I have not the slightest doubt that King Baudouin and Queen Fabiola had a deep profound love for each other.

AMEN. That's the bottom line. No matter how they were introduced or what difficulties they experienced, they had a deep abiding love for each other. End of story.

 

[Mbruno]

I didn't knew it. It makes me feel heartbroken. My husband and I don't have children and I don't know if we wil have one (or more) someday, but never would I and he only think to get an annulment and have children with someone else.

I don't know if the story is true, but it is a different situation when your husband is the king and the country needs an heir (after all, monarchy is still a hereditary institution).

Fabiola's case is not unique in royal history though and there were cases of annulments in the past based on the argument that the queen could not conceive. I just think that would have looked odd in the 20th century.

 

[JR76]

I don't know if the story is true, but it is a different situation when your husband is the king and the country needs an heir (after all, monarchy is still a hereditary institution).

Fabiola's case is not unique in royal history though and there were cases of annulments in the past based on the argument that the queen could not conceive. I just think that would have looked odd in the 20th century.

There's also cases where the husband, like (if rumours are true) Baudoin, refused his wife's offer of annulment - Charles II was offered one by Katherine of Braganza and also withstood pressure from courtiers and the parliament who wanted to prevent his brother James to inherit the throne.


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[episcogal]

There is evidence that Baudouin and Fabiola considered adoption as well, but when the government advisers said the child wold be denied rights to ascend the throne, Baudouin and Fabiola (but I get the impression - personally - that it was more Baudouin) decided to nix that idea. There was talk it might be a refugee child from the Congo.

 

[Marengo]

An annulment would surely have been a very unpopular move with the Belgian people at the time. It would have been outragious if the king had proceeded with such an annulment. Although the Shah of Persia did divorce the empress Soraya in 1958, Belgium was no Persia. It seems that the couple came to terms with their childlesness, as many other couples in a simular situation do.

 

[Osipi]

There is evidence that Baudouin and Fabiola considered adoption as well, but when the government advisers said the child wold be denied rights to ascend the throne, Baudouin and Fabiola (but I get the impression - personally - that it was more Baudouin) decided to nix that idea. There was talk it might be a refugee child from the Congo.

Perhaps in a situation such as an adopted child of Baudouin and Fabiola being denied rights to ascend the throne, the would be parents had the best interest of the child at heart.

 

[episcogal]

Perhaps in a situation such as an adopted child of Baudouin and Fabiola being denied rights to ascend the throne, the would be parents had the best interest of the child at heart.

That's exactly what I believe happened. Baudouin was not a very compromising man when his principles were concerned, and I believe it was said he was not willing to make a child feel as though they were in a lesser station based upon being denied rights to the throne.

 

[maria-olivia]

We have to thank the Prince and the Princess de Liege who had 2 of their 3 of her Children who should be potential great Heirs.

Philippe is now a great King and has 4 Children.

Amen.

 

[Tilia C.]

An annulment would surely have been a very unpopular move with the Belgian people at the time. It would have been outragious if the king had proceeded with such an annulment. Although the Shah of Persia did divorce the empress Soraya in 1958, Belgium was no Persia. It seems that the couple came to terms with their childlesness, as many other couples in a simular situation do.

I think it was Soraya, who wanted the divorce. The Shak, in accordance with muslim tradition, would have been fine with just marrying a second wife, but that was unacceptable to Soraya. So the two case really can't be compared.

Also, the line of succession was secure because with Prince Albert's children. Although it is understandable that monarchs prefer to be succeeded by their own child, this is not necessary for the continuation of the monarchy.

 

[wyevale]

The denial of full rights to adopted chldren remains one of the great unaddressed injustices of our time... King Baudouin [if he did indeed not proceed with an adoption for that reason] showed, once again that he was a man of enormous principal, and foresight, at no small personal cost to him and his beloved wife.

 

[NotHRH]

There was no chromosomal or Rh anomaly. According to the late Queen's biographer Guy Michelland (La Reine Blanche) Fabiola suffered from a malformed uterus and ovaries. Any pregnancy would have only about a 20% chance of going to term and she herself would have had only a 10% chance of surviving it according to her Swiss obstetrician. Indeed, she came close to death during at least two of her five doomed pregnancies.

A cruel fate for this warm, imaginative woman who so adored children and who would have made such a fantastic mother.

The fact that she knew the odds were against her and kept trying to provide her husband and the country with heirs says a lot about her determination and courage, imo.

I will be crucified for this question - why...if she knew this, why would a devout, pious woman do this to an unborn life and jeopardize her own life? Determination and courage? Maybe her thoughts on the subject, but I actually do not understand that line of thinking. She was human though, but just somewhat selfish on her (and her husband's) part.

 

[CrownPrincessJava]

I will be crucified for this question - why...if she knew this, why would a devout, pious woman do this to an unborn life and jeopardize her own life? Determination and courage? Maybe her thoughts on the subject, but I actually do not understand that line of thinking. She was human though, but just somewhat selfish on her (and her husband's) part.

I thought it was after her 5th miscarriage is when Fabiola found out she had an abnormal uterus.

 

[Mbruno]

Perhaps in a situation such as an adopted child of Baudouin and Fabiola being denied rights to ascend the throne, the would be parents had the best interest of the child at heart.

An adopted child could never have succession rights as the Belgian constitution says that only legitimate descendants of Leopold I of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha can ascend the throne. Baudouin of course would know that .