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  #221  
Old 09-08-2019, 07:32 AM
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And sadly we shall not see the likes of King Baudouin of the Belgians ever again.
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  #222  
Old 06-11-2020, 04:24 PM
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Doña Fabiola de Mora y Aragón was born on this day 92 years ago.
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  #223  
Old 06-11-2020, 04:45 PM
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RIP to an amazing woman who continues to inspire many!
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  #224  
Old 06-11-2020, 04:50 PM
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His death is almost as ripe and rife with conspiracy theories as his grandfather's, isn't it?

I know physically he had a bad heart, and it's dreadful that he was only 62, but it does seem like many things are open to question.

What was the source of his heart troubles?
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  #225  
Old 06-11-2020, 05:54 PM
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He had a Heart Operation in France.
He went sailing and it was to hot... we don't know
The Evening he passed away , a normal dead as his Grand Father.
Please do not change our History
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  #226  
Old 06-11-2020, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
His death is almost as ripe and rife with conspiracy theories as his grandfather's, isn't it?

I know physically he had a bad heart, and it's dreadful that he was only 62, but it does seem like many things are open to question.

What was the source of his heart troubles?
Heart disease is part of the genetic history of the male Coburg Gotha line. Baudouin's father died from it, his brother King Albert has been operated for heart problems and his younger brother Prince Alexandre died from sudden heart failure in his 50's.

Baudouin first began to experience heart problems in his early 40's. The poor man also suffered from sciatica for most of his adult life. ( Paul Belien " A Throne for Brussels")

He spent part of the State Visit to Chile and Brazil in 1965 on crutches.

Baudouin was operated on for a leaking heart valve in his late 50's. According to a report I read after his death French President Mitterand was informed by French intelligence sources that the surgery was botched and unsuccessful. I also read a rumour that Baudouin's step-mother the Princess de Rethy had tried to persuade him to have the operation at the world renowned Cleveland Clinic.

Baudouin was no longer close to Princess Liliane and refused(sadly imho)

Anyway he was never completely well afterwards. In the few years he had left he became fatigued easily and suffered from depression.

At his final National Day in July 1993, ten days before his death, he can be seen looking ashen and leaning heavily on a sword or cane.

Andalusia Spain is where he and Fabiola kept a vacation home since 1965. They went there alone immediately after National Day 1993. They liked to have minimal or no staff with them on their holidays.

It was a blistering hot Saturday evening on July 31st 1993. Baudouin was reading on the terrace of the villa. Fabiola was in the kitchen preparing dinner. When she called to him he did not come.

I don't remember if it was Fabiola or an aide de camp who found Baudouin slumped back in his chair. Dr. Carlos Aguada told Spanish Hola that the king had died with his eyes half-open..which indicated that death had come very quickly and suddenly.

He was only 62 years old...about 6 weeks shy of his 63rd birthday.

His sudden death was a great and terrible shock to his family and to the Belgians and all of Europe. It made the front pages of the New York Times, i remember it well.

The only controversy and criticism i can remember came from.people who questioned the wisdom of a king with a serious heart problem going to vacation in extreme heat without being accompanied by his personal physician.

I have also heard that very high heat and humidity is particularly bad for people with heart problems.

Hope this helps.
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  #227  
Old 06-11-2020, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Heart disease is part of the genetic history of the male Coburg Gotha line. Baudouin's father died from it, his brother King Albert has been operated for heart problems and his younger brother Prince Alexandre died from sudden heart failure in his 50's.

Baudouin first began to experience heart problems in his early 40's. The poor man also suffered from sciatica for most of his adult life. ( Paul Belien " A Throne for Brussels")

He spent part of the State Visit to Chile and Brazil in 1965 on crutches.

Baudouin was operated on for a leaking heart valve in his late 50's. According to a report I read after his death Ftench President Mitterand was informed by French intelligence sources that the surgery was botched and unsuccessful. I also read a rumor that Baudouin's step-mother the Princess de Rethy had tried to persuade him to have the operation at the world renowned Cleveland Clinic.

Baudouin was no longer close to Princess Liliane and refused(sadly imho)

Anyway he was never completely well afterwards. In the few years he had left he became fatigued easily and suffered from depression.

At his final National Day in July 1993, ten days before his death, he can be seen looking ashen and leaning heavily on a sword or cane.

Andalusia Spain is where he and Fabiola kept s vacation home since 1965. They went there alone immediately after National Day 1993. They liked to have minimal or no staff with them on their holidays.

It was a blistering hot Saturday evening on July 31st 1993. Baudouin was reading on the terrace of the villa. Fabiola wss in the kitchen preparing dinner. When she called to him he did not come.

I don't remember if it was Fabiola or an aide de camp who found Baudouin slumped back in his chair. Dr. Carlos Aguada told Spanish Hola that the king had died with his eyes half-open..which indicated that death had come very quickly and suddenly.

He was only 62 years old...about 6 weeks shy of his 63rd birthday.

His sudden death was a great and terrible shock to his family and to the Belgians and all of Europe. It made the front pages of the New York Times, i remember it well.

The only controversy and criticism i can remember came from.people who questioned the wisdom of a king with a serious heart problem going to vacation in extreme heat without being accompanied by his personal physician.

I have also heard that very high heat and humidity is particularly bad for people with heart problems.

Hope this helps.
Thanks.

I knew about the family cardiac problems, I just wondered if there was something specific with King Baudouin. From what I just read, his heart surgery was for a slightly unusual form of a leaky valve, and Lilian was apparently very, very worried that the repair wouldn't hold. That seems to have been the "heart attack", but it certainly isn't a classic one.

Given how he was always so tall and thin, and his eyesight and cardiovascular and skeletal problems, I wonder if Baudouin didn't specifically have a touch of something like Marfan syndrome. (Not actual Marfan's, probably, or we'd surely know...) One more mystery.

On a cheerier note, I wonder if anybody has ever read the mystery novel I have with Fabiola in a guest role? It's called Noblesse Oblige by Cynthia Smith.
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  #228  
Old 06-11-2020, 07:00 PM
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No...i haven't heard of it.

Ironically Baudouin ancestor the awful Leopold II was also very tall-about 6'5" and cadaverously thin.

And he also suffered from sciatica and heart disease.

As for Marfan's i have no idea. I read in a French biography that Baudouin's eyesight was normal until his adolescence, when he and his family were taken prisoner by the Nazis and held at Sankt Wolfgang.

There they suffered from mistreatment, which included poor diet, lack of exercise and dimly lit rooms. It badly impacted not only Baudouin's eyesight but that of his sister Josephine-Charlotte.
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  #229  
Old 06-11-2020, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
No...i haven't heard of it.

Ironically Baudouin ancestor the awful Leopold II was also very tall-about 6'5" and cadaverously thin.

And he also suffered from sciatica and heart disease.

As for Marfan's i have no idea. I read in a French biography that Baudouin's eyesight was normal until his adolescence, when he and his family were taken prisoner by the Nazis and held at Sankt Wolfgang.

There they suffered from mistreatment, which included bad diet, lack of exercise and dimly lit rooms. It badly impacted not only Baudouin's eyesight but that of his sister Josephine-Charlotte.
But not Albert? Young Prince Baudouin looks as if he were squinting a lot of the time. Maybe it was a case of not having great eyesight before the war, and really not afterwards.

The novel's fun. It's in the mid-90's and the case centers around a fictional niece of Fabiola. The protagonist has tea with both of them and basically goes 'holy crud, I'm having tea and waffles with Queen Fabiola'.

I went and grabbed it. "You're like my husband. He would make judgments of state in seconds but could never decide which pastry to choose."
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  #230  
Old 06-11-2020, 08:30 PM
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That sounds like a fun read!

Albert was very young during the Nazi imprisonment...just a small boy. I don't know that he suffered the physical and psychological effects of imprisonment as harshly as Baudouin and JC did.

He was also only about 18 months old when their mother Queen Astrid was killed, so he has no memories of her at all.
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  #231  
Old 06-11-2020, 09:01 PM
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"Over the years, their union turned out to be probably the most successful royal marriage in Europe. Their love for each other was evident to all who knew them. And Queen Fabiola had proven to be a kind and caring woman who was devoted to her adopted country. Why did Baudouin choose this simple quiet woman to be his wife? He was probably wise enough to recognize that teenage royal bimbos may be nice to look at, but what do you talk about? And glamorous stars may be nice to visit, but hell to live with. Obviously she made him happy and comfortable and made his palace a home. What more could any king want? One wonders if Prince Charles doesn't wish he had made a similar choice." — Noblesse Oblige (1996)
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  #232  
Old 06-11-2020, 09:11 PM
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I agree. The term "match made in heaven" could have literally been coined for Baudouin and Fabiola.

Read the passages of Baudouin's diary(published after his death) where he writes of his deep love and gratitude for his wife, whom he was convinced was sent to him by God to help him be a better man and a better Christian.

It almost brought me to tears.
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  #233  
Old 06-11-2020, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Heart disease is part of the genetic history of the male Coburg Gotha line. Baudouin's father died from it, his brother King Albert has been operated for heart problems and his younger brother Prince Alexandre died from sudden heart failure in his 50's.

Baudouin was operated on for a leaking heart valve in his late 50's. According to a report I read after his death French President Mitterand was informed by French intelligence sources that the surgery was botched and unsuccessful. I also read a rumour that Baudouin's step-mother the Princess de Rethy had tried to persuade him to have the operation at the world renowned Cleveland Clinic.

Baudouin was no longer close to Princess Liliane and refused(sadly imho
This is so true. Even his father Leopold III died from an emergency heart surgery in 1983. Actually, Prince Alexandre had a heart surgery in Boston (1957). All these contributed to Princess Lilian's interest in Cardiology and even founded the Cardiological Foundation.

It's sad to know about King Baudouin's botched and unsuccessful surgery. I can only imagine Queen Fabiola's reaction. It would have been her 92nd birthday. My lovely Queen.
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  #234  
Old 06-11-2020, 10:59 PM
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Maybe Baudouin feared offending the Belgians if he had traveled to the USA for medical surgery. Even though the surgery took place in France, there was no controversy or offense given that the king questioned the competence of the European medical establishment.

Without any proof, i have a strong feeling that the Cleveland Clinic heart surgeons could have saved Baudouin..or at the very least have bought him more time.
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  #235  
Old 06-11-2020, 11:03 PM
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Actually from what I saw at Cross of Laeken, Lilian also urged him to have it done in Belgium, where they were more experienced with the procedure. Why he thought France was the best bet, who knows?
https://crossoflaeken.blogspot.com/2...-baudouin.html

Stubborn man.
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  #236  
Old 06-11-2020, 11:34 PM
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Oh, that is very interesting. Thank you.

The surgery was kept very quiet...almost secret. Most people didn't know about it until it was over.
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  #237  
Old 06-12-2020, 02:22 AM
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In a documentary on Belgian television they interviewed the surgeon of the King, Dr. Alain Carpentier. He said that there were complications during the operation but that after a short prayer there was a 'divine intervention' and the rest of the operation went well. The death was a great shock, also to Dr. Carpentier.

In the same documentary Prof. Robert Senelle said that it was said that the King went to Spain feeling very well. Baudouin said he didn't need his medicine any longer and he may have stopped too early.

A world leading cardiologic center is located in Aalst in Flanders. According to Dr. Carpentier he was told by the chef de cabinet of the King that nobody in Belgium dared to operate the King. In the same documentary somebody claimed that the King did not go to Aalst because it was a Flemish hospital. If it would have been in Brussels it would have been less of a problem.
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  #238  
Old 06-12-2020, 05:20 AM
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So, Belgian specialists were too intimidated to perform open heart surgery on the king OR Baudouin was unwilling to risk the political implications of literally owing his life to Flanders?

I tend to believe the latter(in Baudouin's case)I also believe he might have ceased taking his medication against medical advice. All reports indicate that toward the end of his life Baudouin became rather fatalistic, and inclined to a sort of religious mysticism that came close to fanatical in its' intensity.(source, excerpts from his personal diaries)

He was a tired man, and discouraged by the tumultuous political situation in Belgium. I can totally see him abandoning his fate into " the hands of the Lord" as he might have put it.

Queen Fabiola was a trained nurse. If it is true that Baudouin stopped taking his medication, i wonder how she reacted? Did she even know?

Incidentally, where did Baudouin's brother Albert have his own(apparently) successful heart surgery?

Interesting info Marengo, thank you!
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  #239  
Old 06-12-2020, 07:43 AM
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King Albert had the operation with Dr. Hugo Vanermen. In 2000 that was in the cardiologic center in Aalst while in 2018 it was done -by the same doctor- in the Saint Luc hospital in Woluwe Saint Lambert, Brussels.
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  #240  
Old 07-01-2020, 12:34 PM
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Baudouin's independence speech in the current-DRC in 1960:

I would think that Baudouin's speech and the lukewarm-at-best reaction has been public record for decades at this point. "Genius" is very much what he said.

Edit: "“Belgium has sent to your land the best of his sons. […] When Leopold II started the great work that finds its crowning today, he did not come to you as a conqueror, but rather as a civilizer”

Edit 2: The whole speech, in French and Google Translate. It would probably have been passable if patronizing, if he had not felt the need to praise Leopold and the Force Publique.
https://translate.google.com/transla...search&pto=aue
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