Abdication Issues & Rumours (2008-2013)

[lucien]

Originally Posted by chami

PS/ As in the case of HM Queen Elizabeth11 of the UK,her mother was refered to as HM Queen Elizabeth in Court circles,but was commonly refered to as HM The Queen Mother,a title she apparently hated.

We are aware of that,yes,but it is of no consequence to us,nor opportune at present.

[timtonruben359]

Originally Posted by chami

It is quite common for the Dutch Monarch to stand down at some stage,but i think its a great pity,especailly as Beatrix is in such good health,and another odd thing is ,that when this happens,as in Beatrix Mothers case,they revert to the title Princess,and not Queen Mother.?

That's because, traditionally, the title of 'Queen Mother' is reserved for Dowager Queens - meaning Queens who are widows of deceased King regents.

The title of Queen mother was actually rarely ever used. For example Queen Mary, wife of George V, was referred to as HM Queen Mary after the death of her husband.

Queen Elizabeth was referred to as Queen mother to avoid confusion with her daughter, Elizabeth II.

When Beatrix does abdicate, she will revert to her title of HRH Princess Beatrix. Dutch parliament could pass a law allowing to keep her title of Queen, but that probably won't happen.

[Grandduchess24]

When that happens willem Alexander and maxima will be king and queen of the Netherlands and like every crown prince willem was educated to be king so I guess he's ready to be king since that time is coming.

[Marengo]

Originally Posted by timtonruben359

That's because, traditionally, the title of 'Queen Mother' is reserved for Dowager Queens - meaning Queens who are widows of deceased King regents.

The title of Queen mother was actually rarely ever used. For example Queen Mary, wife of George V, was referred to as HM Queen Mary after the death of her husband.

Queen Elizabeth was referred to as Queen mother to avoid confusion with her daughter, Elizabeth II.

When Beatrix does abdicate, she will revert to her title of HRH Princess Beatrix. Dutch parliament could pass a law allowing to keep her title of Queen, but that probably won't happen.

Queen Wilhelmina started the 'tradition' of going back to the title 'princess' as she wanted to die with the same title that she was born with (at least she says so in her autobiography). Indeed, it will not be changed.

[kathia_sophia]

Originally Posted by Grandduchess24

When that happens willem Alexander and maxima will be king and queen of the Netherlands and like every crown prince willem was educated to be king so I guess he's ready to be king since that time is coming.

how do you know time is coming? in The Netherlands, its commom for the monarch to abdicate (or at least since Queen Wilhelmina), and im certain that Queen Beatrix will abdicate in favour of her son, but as she stated, she will be monarch as long as possible for the Crown Prince and his family to treasure the family moments, she didnt have with her family.
so to keep "tradition" she will abdicate, but not for now, maybe in the next years to come, but not now.

[Dianas Ghost]

I'm horrified that Queens Wilhelmina & Juliana ever abdicated. It's like a demotion, telling the world you're worth less now because you're "old". I hope Queen Beatrix never abdicates!

[kathia_sophia]

to abdicate doesnt means that you are just old, Queen Whilhemina was exausted with all the dificulties and social/war issues, she was a great Queen who in her years as the monarch of dutch people fought to keep her people together and protect her kingdom. she did abdicate but not because she was worth less as a old women.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by kathia_sophia

to abdicate doesnt means that you are just old, Queen Whilhemina was exausted with all the dificulties and social/war issues, she was a great Queen who in her years as the monarch of dutch people fought to keep her people together and protect her kingdom. she did abdicate but not because she was worth less as a old women.

She,HM Queen Wilhelmina,simply followed the example of the Emperor Charles V,whom she admired and thought wise.He abdicated in a time that such an act was without precedent,yet he did abdicate.As with the coming of years he felt his Realm needed a younger Monarch.A wise rather then a "horrendous idea" for pete's sake...

She felt the same.Actually she had felt the same already before WW II,bu Juliana and Bernhard talked her of of it at that point.Then came the war
and ofcourse there was no question on the iossue.Then as now,it is a total non-issue.

[Stefanie]

Maybe it was discussed elsewhere but might Friso´s health situation have an influence on Beatrix´ decision to abdicate (in case he might not recover completeley or even worse....)?

[Sister Morphine]

I understand that every royal house does things their own way, but I for one prefer how the British Royal Family does it. You're monarch until your death, barring unforeseen circumstances (see: Edward VIII). No talk of abdication or stepping down because you're no longer as young as you used to be. Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip are still plugging along, and both are rather advanced in age.

[Madame Royale]

Originally Posted by Stefanie

Maybe it was discussed elsewhere but might Friso´s health situation have an influence on Beatrix´ decision to abdicate (in case he might not recover completeley or even worse....)?

I've wondered this myself.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by Madame Royale

I've wondered this myself.

No this wasn't discussed elsewhere cher Madame Royal et tout,and we won't have it here now,not now,not anytime untill HM decides if or when to make that known if she decides too ever at all,not posters.Nor are we interested in the British goings on here in this Dutch thread,we are aware of what goes on elsewhere...more then at some places...This is a sort of implying uncommon to us Dutch,and certainly at this time.We don't do rag ifs andf buts here!And therefor it will not be welcomed nor answerd at this moment in time when HM is with her son in this sad situation.I do hope you all understand.Thank you.:)..

Hello down there,XeniaCasiraghi,please read the above,Gracie!

[XeniaCasaraghi]

When it comes to abdication, I am all for it if the monarch is just getting too old. Or perhaps the monarch can keep the title but some of those duties and walk abouts go to their successor. What crazy would do we live in where someone in their 70's+ is still expected to do the same work they did when they were 40?
But if Friso doesn't come back 100% why would that influence if his mother abdicates? I didn't think Friso was the heir.

[NGalitzine]

Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi

When it comes to abdication, I am all for it if the monarch is just getting too old. Or perhaps the monarch can keep the title but some of those duties and walk abouts go to their successor. What crazy would do we live in where someone in their 70's+ is still expected to do the same work they did when they were 40?
But if Friso doesn't come back 100% why would that influence if his mother abdicates? I didn't think Friso was the heir.

In what crazy world do we live in that an otherwise healthy 70+ person would be considered too old to carry on working if they wish to? Its not as if being monarch is the same a labourer doing heavy lifting. In The Netherlands abdication remains a decision of the monarch. And no, Friso is not an heir to the throne.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by NGalitzine

In what crazy world do we live in that an otherwise healthy 70+ person would be considered too old to carry on working if they wish to? Its not as if being monarch is the same a labourer doing heavy lifting. In The Netherlands abdication remains a decision of the monarch. And no, Friso is not an heir to the throne.

Please,could we all refrain from posting in this thread for the time being!It is not a sign of good taste to even trying to discuss this sort of thing in view of the present circumstances as I've requested two posts above.It is not opportune.Besides that you're absolutely right NGalitzine.

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Originally Posted by NGalitzine

In what crazy world do we live in that an otherwise healthy 70+ person would be considered too old to carry on working if they wish to? Its not as if being monarch is the same a labourer doing heavy lifting. In The Netherlands abdication remains a decision of the monarch. And no, Friso is not an heir to the throne.

Beatrix is healthy and that is good for her. I am not saying that they should be forced off of the throne or away from their job. I am just saying that if they are slowing down with age then they shouldn't be expected to continue on like the years aren't catching up with them. As you said, Beatrix will make the decision if she wants to abdicate and when she wants to do so, I am in no way saying that such a decision should be taken from her.

[James VI]

Since 1945, three female sovereigns have voluntarily abdicated their thrones, Queens Wilelmina and Juliana of the Netherlands and Grand Duchess Charlotte of Luxembourg. In comparison, only one male Monarch had done so, Grand Duke Jean of Luxembourg. ( The other male abdications, King Peter of Yugoslavia, Boris of Bulgaria, Leka of Albania, Victor Emmanuel and Umberto of Italy, Michael of Romania and Leopold of Belgium, cannot be termed voluntary ) All other male Sovereigns in Europe have died whilst on their respective thrones, King Constantine of Greece was of course deposed and has not formally abdicated. At the risk of sounding vaguely sexist, has`nt the plethora of female abdication been rather counter-productive, to the Monarchist cause? Particularly as we are now in the era of equal succession rights to the throne?

[Jacknch]

James VI - you will be fully aware that it is customary in the Netherlands and Luxembourg for monarchs to have the choice to abdicate if and when they choose to do so. The fact that they happen to have been female doesn't come in to it. One might say that of those monarchs who have been deposed, all were male and we will never know whether a female monarch might have managed to avoided it. The monarch who abdicated for the worst reason (pre-1945 I admit) - and not out of what was best for the country per se - was a male.

[Kataryn]

As with all families, where something so serious has happened, life will be changing for the Dutch RF as well. Maybe not so much on the outside, but emotionally for sure. So before the situation itself is not even resolved, far less coped with it, it is IMHO impossible to predict or even discuss what will happen. We can only imagine how HM feels at the moment but have absolutely no basis for a discussion besides (as Lucien pointed out) quite tasteless speculation.

[HRHofNothing]

Given the devestating news about Prince Frisco, I am also wondering if HM will now want to continue on.... On the other hand this could strengten her resolve to go on, to allow W-A and Maxima to spend as much time with their daughters as possible