Abdication Issues & Rumours (2008-2013)

[Saragli]

I simply cannot imagine Queen Beatrix abdicating, now or anywhere in the near future. She has such a firm grip on her role as Queen and it really seems to embody her. I feel like QEII, Bea wouldn't know how to be anything but a Queen. Maybe when she is in her 80's I could see it, but not know.

[rob2008]

Poor Beatrix has a tough job with the government business but I think she should go on and on. She can do this by ensuring she has superb back up. The Prince of Orange can take on more duties and it is good that the 3 are a firm and fixed trio - HM, W-A and Max. This arrangement will allow HM to continue another 10 years.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by rob2008

Poor Beatrix has a tough job with the government business but I think she should go on and on. She can do this by ensuring she has superb back up. The Prince of Orange can take on more duties and it is good that the 3 are a firm and fixed trio - HM, W-A and Max. This arrangement will allow HM to continue another 10 years.

That will be entirely up to her and her alone.Any speculation on Abdication is not opportune at present.

[bartholomeus]

There is serious talk in parliament about restricting HM's role in government formation. It is my guess that HM will abdicate a year or so after the first government formation with a reduced role for the monarch in the process.

Cannot really put a finger on it, but I guess she'll try to find a reasonable form this new role, trying to hold on to as much power and dignity as she possibly can, and then emmediately pass it on to the Prince of Orange.

I'm sorry if this is not opportune, but I like to speculate..

[lucien]

Originally Posted by bartholomeus

There is serious talk in parliament about restricting HM's role in government formation. It is my guess that HM will abdicate a year or so after the first government formation with a reduced role for the monarch in the process.

Cannot really put a finger on it, but I guess she'll try to find a reasonable form this new role, trying to hold on to as much power and dignity as she possibly can, and then emmediately pass it on to the Prince of Orange.

I'm sorry if this is not opportune, but I like to speculate..

It's as serious as all the previous times.Not.Just because whiner Jobje can't stand he's not all important,in fact,even a bigger failure then as Mayor of Amsterdam,now it seems right for his party to nag?Vamos,no,it won't happen.They're all too well aware of the consequences,they'll have to take responsobolity.No,it's easyer to nag towards the only one with brains,HM,then to take up business.They are just too incompetent and too attached to the red velvet of their seats,or blue leather in this case.
PM Rutte has made it clear it won't happen before as Mozart was complaining,and it won't happen still.No fiddling with HM role.

[Jacknch]

I personally believe that Queen Beatrix takes her role as monarch very seriously indeed. Accordingly, she and she alone will decide when and if to abdicate. Quite frankly, I cannot imagine that she will give the idea much thought until she is unable to carry out her duties and role to her own highly set standards. Queen Beatrix will do and does far more for her country than most of the politicians who mainly seek out high positions of office for their own gain - a situation that has been going on in Britain for far too long.

[Madame Royale]

Has it ever been thought that the Queen may not abdicate? I know it seems to be expected, but what if the Queen wishes to remain monarch until she dies? Would the Dutch support her choice?

[Marengo]

Well, the British situation, where the heir will be starting his function at an age that most people are retiring is generally considered odd, and far from ideal by many. Considering the last two Queens abdicated, almost everybody assumes that HM will do so too, at one point.

And like lucien says, I can't imagine Wilders' PVV party will support any change when it means that the government will fall (as the other coalition parties are and always were strongly against any change of HM's role. We saw this week how far that man will go to cling onto power, as he did not throw Lucassen out of his party (a member of parlament who, as it now became obvious, used to terrorise his neighbours and who was conviced for sexual assault). The labour party will turn around soon enough, once they are in government again or once the pain of the coalition forming process of this summer has been healed.

[Madame Royale]

But if the Queen does not abdicate, no matter how odd some may find it, what do you think the general reaction would be? Would the Queen be supported for such an unprecedented change of tradition?

I mean, should Beatrix have all her facaulties about her in older age, and should she not want to stand aside, is there any reason as to why she couldn't remain Queen?

Also, the Queen has lost her spouse so it's not like theres any motivation to retire to spend her twilight years with her beloved husband. Unlike her mother, who was able to do just that with her consort, Beatrix doesn't have that option.

I'd endeavour to suggest that remaining both active and at the very centre of the monarchy is pearhaps what provides Beatrix with a good deal of motivation to continue on. Goodness knows that when alone in her apartments, she must have moments where she feels quite alone and the business of state would be a welcome distraction.

Or I could be entirely wrong and Her Majesty should be resolved to abdicate next week . . .

[Marengo]

I think that depends on how long HM lives. If she lives to be 100 and still is on the throne not many people would be happy with it. But I can't imagine that she will be forced to abdicate by public opinion if that is what you mean. Still, it isn't likely that she will reign on for another decade...but many people said that 10 years ago too.

[Madame Royale]

Yep, that's what I meant :)

I guess it's all relative to the person, their age and what they are capable of doing at the time.

Another thing, if and or when Beatrix abdicates, will she revert back to being styled and titled as an 'HRH' and a 'Princess of the Netherlands'?

[lucien]

Originally Posted by Madame Royale

Yep, that's what I meant :)

I guess it's all relative to the person, their age and what they are capable of doing at the time.

Another thing, if and or when Beatrix abdicates, will she revert back to being styled and titled as an 'HRH' and a 'Princess of the Netherlands'?

I hope not.Queen-Mother or Queen Dowager would do nicely...
Wilhelmina and Juliana both had that `normal,frugal modest`streak even if they weren´t...

But then,HM doesn´t intend to abdicate anytime soon.Thank goodness,why ment what´s not broken,I say.

Bartholomeus has a fascination with abdicating queens or so it seems,each time this subject is brought up,
it´s him initiating the circus...or most of the time anyway.
Just to make clear that there is neither talk nor sign of such a event any time soon.
What´s happening soon is the wedding of HM nephew the Duke of Parma this weekend.What a wonderfull event to look forward too

[Muhler]

I'm very interested in formalities and protocol, so can someone please tell me how an abdication takes place, from a constitutional and formal point of view?

Say Queen Beatrix wakes up one morning and says: "Okay, I'm going to abdicate". What happens next?

[lucien]

Originally Posted by Muhler

I'm very interested in formalities and protocol, so can someone please tell me how an abdication takes place, from a constitutional and formal point of view?

Say Queen Beatrix wakes up one morning and says: "Okay, I'm going to abdicate". What happens next?

She keeps her mouth shut.....Then calls Alexander and invites him over.Once they´re clear on the matter,HM calls the PM to pop in.
The PM will inform the Government under strict state secret untill HM herself announces the date of such event publicly by radio,tv and
the Staatscourant.

On the day,the RF will gather at the Royal Palace,Amsterdam as the Nieuwe Kerk opposite the Palace is designated to be the place where all Inthronisations of Dutch Monarchs are to take place according to the Constitution.

At 10 AM HM and the Heir will enter the Mozes Hall of the Palace where the entire Royal Family and Government is present,and both HM and the PoO will sign and contra-sign the Act of Abdication.From that moment on the Prince of Orange will be King Willem IV Alexander.After this short ceremony Queen Beatrix will present the new Monarch on the palace balcony to the crowds.

At 3PM the Inthronisation ceremony in the Nwe Kerk starts.While all are present,Government,Parliament,distinguished guests,family and friends ( but never a Crowned Monarch even if it´s a best friend,they do not attend each others Coronations or Inthronisations as a rule,but Heirs and Spares do attend-) HM and Queen Máxima will leave the Palace a few minutes before 3PM with their entourage and walk to the church.Upon arrival HM is announced by the Heraut and the National Anthem is played while TM proceed to the Throne,or whatever chair is used as such,that differs from time to time....

The PM opens this special occasion with a speech and the reason why the `congragation`is gathered there that day.Then each Member of Parliament will swear /or promiss allegiance to the new Monarch after which HM himself will speech and take the Oath in front of the Credens Table holding the Crown,Orb,Scepter and Sword of State.After the ceremony the Monarch and his family will leave for the Palace and present themselves at the Palace balcony.

There´s a lot of music before during and after as the Orchestra in attendance with Choir will play/sing Salve Regina.At least that was what I recall from last time,in 1980,the Maastrichter Staar,a choir with the predicate Royal from Maastricht,was invited to perform during this most solemn ceremony.All other events are the choice of whomever chooses.With Queen Beatrix there was a grand party at the ship/ferry `Koningin Beatrix` and all were taken there by canal boats,the Prince of Wales,Henri,all.Maybe Queen Máxima opts for a nights of tango and salsa,which is ofcourse great too.

[Muhler]

Thank you Lucien, for a very good reply.

[Winnie]

I appreciate your insight, Lucien. Thank you. Personally I hope that this event doesn't take place for many years.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by lucien

I hope not.Queen-Mother or Queen Dowager would do nicely...
Wilhelmina and Juliana both had that `normal,frugal modest`streak even if they weren´t...

Isn't it no in the act of the membership of the Royal House that an abdicated monarch will automatic became Prince/Princess? That's what i don't find good. Wilhelmina and Juliana did become so because they choose so. But why does Beatrix also have to became a Princess again if she abdicates? Because her mother and grandmother did so?

[Marengo]

I think that a recent act (maybe from the 80-ties) actually states that the monarch will automatically become prince(ss) X of the Netherlands again after an abdication indeed. In any case I can't imagine that Queen Beatrix will keep using 'Queen' (or 'Queen Mother for that matter). She has always been considered more haughty than her mother (esp. in the 80-ties and 90-ties) and such a thing would emphasize the feelings that many had in the past.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Isn't it no in the act of the membership of the Royal House that an abdicated monarch will automatic became Prince/Princess? That's what i don't find good. Wilhelmina and Juliana did become so because they choose so. But why does Beatrix also have to became a Princess again if she abdicates? Because her mother and grandmother did so?

Yes,they became Princesses again by their own choice,a sort of overdone emotion as they thought the title Queen Mother "belonged" to Queen Mother Emma,which it didn't ofcourse,and the only one by that title before her was Anna Pawlowna.As dutch are,behave normal as that's silly enough,they sometimes,against my wish.....tone down each and every event or title to come across as modest as possible,which I think is total calvinistic nonsense.And it is.To think people will fall back on decades ago when HM indeed seemed haughty is not relevant anymore,we have all seen that HM evolved into the warm,strong and just Monarch she is.And they forget her own words;"You see different with eyes that have cryed" .And that clearly is what happened to her too.People fall back on anything when it suites them,inconsequent lot,that's why they should be ignored and leave businesses like this to the Royal House.

Allthough I must say,the Belgian situation fe,where there are two Queens for decades now is a bit of a confusionlike thing to me,even more because you hardly ever see any of the two...

[bartholomeus]

read: 'Invloed staatshoofd beperken' - Binnenland | Het laatste nieuws uit Nederland leest u op Telegraaf.nl [binnenland]

as soon as this situation is dealt with and the palace is completely restored we'll see our new king and queen on the balcony..

remember even the strongest of monarchs, Queen Wilhelmina was seriously thinking of abdicating even before WOII

The stadholder heritage and the manager profile of our current Queen, who has always expressed reluctance to define the position of the future monarchy, all seem to indicate a transfer of power or rather title and position sooner than we would like.

One can also never compare the British and Dutch monarchy, the traditions differ completely.