Abdication Issues & Rumours (2008-2013) - Page 2

prinsesbeagle · #21 01-07-2009, 03:34 AM

I really don't think Maxima having a baby or becoming preggers as a Queen is a problem. That's not going to stop Queen B. The only thing that might have her wait a few years I think is her wanting WA and Maxima to have a few more quiet years before they become king/queen, because she herself experienced those years as her most happiest. But at the same time I think she does not want WA to have to wait too long. It's not good if an heir has to wait untill he is 50-60 imho. Not here anyway. I also think Juliana was in excellent health when she abdicated so I don't think that had much to do with it. Of course, when you're older it becomes harder.

Amalia won't have much official tasks untill she is 18 or when she finishes university. Laurentien and Constantijn will move back to H once WA becomes king so they will take over many duties in the meantime.

As for a general pardon I don't think any prisoners will be released. There's no way anyone would accept that.

lucien · #22 01-09-2009, 03:48 AM

Any speculation on a possible abdication is not only premature but ungreatfull too for the work HM does/has done for the past 29 years.
It's not on the agenda for years to come as HM still very much enjoys her work.

principessa · #23 01-09-2009, 11:26 AM

I don't believe that HM will abdicate this year. It was said that she would wait until Willem-Alexanders and Maximas children are older. She will work until her health would not allow it anymore to reign.

timtonruben359 · #24 01-20-2009, 10:03 PM

I personally hope that Queen Beatrix reigns for the rest of her life. I'm not a fan of abdication...must be the British in me

That being said, I think we'll see an abdication sometime in the next 5 years.

lucien · #25 01-21-2009, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timtonruben359

I personally hope that Queen Beatrix reigns for the rest of her life. I'm not a fan of abdication...must be the British in me

That being said, I think we'll see an abdication sometime in the next 5 years.

We'll see.

wbenson · #26 01-21-2009, 03:09 AM

I don't think there will be an abdication. I'm not old enough to remember either of Beatrix's abdicating predecessors, but Beatrix just seems different. I don't know how exactly to quantify it. She just seems like she simply is a Queen, rather than her mother, who seems like she was an extremely nice woman who happened to do the job of Queen for a little while.

bartholomeus · #27 03-06-2009, 09:18 AM

King William I abdicated when he was 68yrs old, because he wanted to marry a second time to a catholic Belgian Countess and the country was against it

King William II died during his reign
King William III also died during his reign

Queen Wilhelmina abdicated when she was 68yrs old because she was worn out by the Second World War and dissapointed in the fact that the Dutch government was not keen on introducing the reforms she thought necessary after WOII

Queen Juliana abdicated when she was 71yrs old, officialy she retired because her physical powers were declining, some scholars suggest that she abdicated because her role and that of her husband was severely damaged because of the Lockheed affair (her husband Prince Bernhard had taken bribes from the Lockheed firms)

So officially there is no tradition, if HM the Queen wants to stay on the throne she can, if she becomes sick and cant perform her duties anymore a regent can be appointed.

Conclusions: discussions on the abdication of Queen Beatrix are interesting but the only one who knows is the Queen this is confirmed by official and unofficial sources from the palace they all say that HM has never talked about abdication seriously

bartholomeus · #28 03-06-2009, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbenson

I don't think there will be an abdication. I'm not old enough to remember either of Beatrix's abdicating predecessors, but Beatrix just seems different. I don't know how exactly to quantify it. She just seems like she simply is a Queen, rather than her mother, who seems like she was an extremely nice woman who happened to do the job of Queen for a little while.

Queen Wilhelmina was also 'simply the Queen' nevertheless she abdicated...

I think the unofficial tradition of the abdication of Dutch monarchs has to do with their role of Stadholder before the introduction of the Kingdom of the Netherlands in the beginning of the nineteenth century. Although the title and 'job' of Stadholder was for life, it was much more a functional role and much less a 'royal' one where the monarch is the representation and the head of the state. I dont know of any abdicating stadholders, would have to do some research, but it does make sense somehow.

**Marengo** · #29 03-06-2009, 09:40 AM

No stadholder ever abdicated, and unfortunately many of them died relatively young. Stadholder Willem V however signed a document in December 1801 in which he recognised the French rule over the seven provinces. By doing so he resigned his rights as stadholder, in the hope to get something in return (Fulda and Corvey). The stadholder hestitated for a long time though, and was only convinced after a lot of pressure from his son Willem (the future king Willem I) and his wife Wilhelmina.

The main reason why Willem I abdicated was probably his disappointment about the seperation of the Southern Netherlands and the unwillingness of the Northern elites to help him get that part of his kingdom back. If he would have been able to rule his kingdom succesfully it is very unlikely he would have married the catholic, Belgian countess Henriëtte d'Oultremont.

bartholomeus · #30 03-06-2009, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo

No stadholder ever abdicated, and unfortunately many of them died relatively young. Stadholder Willem V however signed a document in December 1801 in which he recognised the French rule over the seven provinces. By doing so he resigned his rights as stadholder, in the hope to get something in return (Fulda and Corvey). The stadholder hestitated for a long time though, and was only convinced after a lot of pressure from his son Willem (the future king Willem I) and his wife Wilhelmina.

The main reason why Willem I abdicated was probably his disappointment about the seperation of the Southern Netherlands and the unwillingness of the Northern elites to help him get that part of his kingdom back. If he would have been able to rule his kingdom succesfully it is very unlikely he would have married the catholic, Belgian countess Henriëtte d'Oultremont.

Thanks for the info.. :-) really interesting facts about the Stadholders btw

I was sure that William I had married the belgian countess. I read about a trip to the Netherlands they made together after his abdication. They were referred to as the count and countess of Nassau (?)

Technicalities such as these aside, in my posts I was trying to show that there is no official tradition for abdication in the Netherlands

thanks for the correction..

Carminha Stalker · #31 03-06-2009, 02:42 PM

I sincerely hope that Queen Beatrix will reign for a few years. But I do agree that it isn´t wise that the heir should wait until he is practically an old man, like Prince Charles, for instance. I know every country follows different rules, but I think the Dutch way is very intelligent.

**Marengo** · #32 03-06-2009, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bartholomeus

Thanks for the info.. :-) really interesting facts about the Stadholders btw

I was sure that William I had married the belgian countess. I read about a trip to the Netherlands they made together after his abdication. They were referred to as the count and countess of Nassau (?)

Technicalities such as these aside, in my posts I was trying to show that there is no official tradition for abdication in the Netherlands

thanks for the correction..

I am sorry if I gave the wrong impression, but you are right, the king indeed married the Belgian countess and that was the reason he had to abdicate. But what I meant to say was that if the king would not have been as disappointed with the political state of his country he would most probably not have risked his throne and it is unlikely that he would have married morganatically

.

bartholomeus · #33 03-06-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo

No stadholder ever abdicated, and unfortunately many of them died relatively young. Stadholder Willem V however signed a document in December 1801 in which he recognised the French rule over the seven provinces. By doing so he resigned his rights as stadholder, in the hope to get something in return (Fulda and Corvey). The stadholder hestitated for a long time though, and was only convinced after a lot of pressure from his son Willem (the future king Willem I) and his wife Wilhelmina.

The main reason why Willem I abdicated was probably his disappointment about the seperation of the Southern Netherlands and the unwillingness of the Northern elites to help him get that part of his kingdom back. If he would have been able to rule his kingdom succesfully it is very unlikely he would have married the catholic, Belgian countess Henriëtte d'Oultremont.

I'm sorry Marengo I misread your reply..

You obviously acknowledge that a marriage between (ex) king William I and Henriëtte d'Oultremont has taken place.

I'm still wondering how you can support these claimes about king William I's abdication?

bartholomeus · #34 03-06-2009, 03:44 PM

ok.. interesting theory!

will think about it..

bartholomeus · #35 03-06-2009, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo

No stadholder ever abdicated, and unfortunately many of them died relatively young. Stadholder Willem V however signed a document in December 1801 in which he recognised the French rule over the seven provinces. By doing so he resigned his rights as stadholder, in the hope to get something in return (Fulda and Corvey). The stadholder hestitated for a long time though, and was only convinced after a lot of pressure from his son Willem (the future king Willem I) and his wife Wilhelmina.

The main reason why Willem I abdicated was probably his disappointment about the seperation of the Southern Netherlands and the unwillingness of the Northern elites to help him get that part of his kingdom back. If he would have been able to rule his kingdom succesfully it is very unlikely he would have married the catholic, Belgian countess Henriëtte d'Oultremont.

I read in a book that the 'd'Oultremont' affair was a very serious one. His own son, King William II, refused to recognize and meet his 'stephmother'.

To my oppinion there is no real concrete evidence (if there is I would really like to know it) that King William was so dissapointed, he was a very succesfull banker and had lots of investments in the country.

Besides that, there is the incident were he took the place of the king (which his son was at that time) in the order of precedence of the baptism of the future King William III, his grandson, perhaps he was frustated he couldnt marry the woman he loved and had to abdicate because of her...(remember the Duke of Windsor) ??

lucien · #36 03-06-2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bartholomeus

I read in a book that the 'd'Oultremont' affair was a very serious one. His own son, King William II, refused to recognize and meet his 'stephmother'.

To my oppinion there is no real concrete evidence (if there is I would really like to know it) that King William was so dissapointed, he was a very succesfull banker and had lots of investments in the country.

Besides that, there is the incident were he took the place of the king (which his son was at that time) in the order of precedence of the baptism of the future King William III, his grandson, perhaps he was frustated he couldnt marry the woman he loved and had to abdicate because of her...(remember the Duke of Windsor) ??

That was the main cause King Willem I abdicated,he was disappointed in his sons attitude towards Henriette and his person as well as the public opinion.After his abdication at Het Loo Palace he felt free to do as he pleased and married the woman.The only one in his family who didn't critizese but supported him and Henriette was his daughter Princess Marianne,married to a adulterous Hohenzollern Princelein,with whom the couple lived for a while in Berlin untill their own place was ready.

Fortunately,HM Queen Beatrix isn't in this position,her children support her all the way.A little happiness back in her live is so well deserved,
it's touching.

Sonjapearl · #37 03-06-2009, 05:54 PM

Just my two cents...

I think Queen Beatrix should wait till the Orange's daughters are older, this way WA and Maxima could spend time with them. Once they are King and Queen, Willem and Maxima would not have the time to be with the 3 A's as they do now.

Empress · #38 03-06-2009, 06:11 PM

Beatrix is still going strong, so I doubt that we will see her abdicate any time in the very near future, otherwise we would be seeing Willem and Maxima taking on more and the Queen less. Beatrix seems like a very intelligent woman so I presume this is the way that she would go about it, rather than just abdicating and not giving any lead up.

**Marengo** · #39 03-06-2009, 06:15 PM

True, HM seems healthy enough but a scenario as in Britain is usually considered a nightmare scenario in the press.

It isn't impossible to combine raising children with being a ruling monarch, the Swedish king and queen seem to have succeeded in that, though others might have been less succesfull.

bartholomeus · #40 03-07-2009, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timtonruben359

I personally hope that Queen Beatrix reigns for the rest of her life. I'm not a fan of abdication...must be the British in me

That being said, I think we'll see an abdication sometime in the next 5 years.

Saw the pictures of the Royal visit to Hull on the website of the English royal house. The Qeen and the Duke seemed a bit tired.. I wonder if you British should perhaps take a more relaxed attitutde towards abdication.

In these times where the monarch performs so much more duties in the public eye (or lens)compared to the past. Perhaps abdication isnt the worst thing that could happen to the British monarchy. If only Will was the next in line:-)

I believe that the British Queen could still remain a powerfull symbol and royal personality after her abdication. The Dutch queens that abdicated also kept public profiles and duties.

I think the unofficial tradition of abdication in the Netherlands shows that the Dutch have a 'working' monarchy, that is not just a symbol or a representation but a vibrant part of the government.