Prince Albert & Charlene Wittstock Wedding Suggestions & Musings - Page 53

Madame Royale · #**1041** 03-02-2011, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Barsi has said it

No idea what you're talking about. Who or what is Barsi?

Nathalie Cox · #**1042** 03-02-2011, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madame Royale

No idea what you're talking about. Who or what is Barsi?

LadyMac has posted the link. Here

Madame Royale · #**1043** 03-02-2011, 11:24 AM

Thanks for that Nathalie. Appreciated.

But it's pertinent to note that no where did that provided extract conclude that she hasn't converted, or that she won't. It was only stated that it is at her discreation, her free will to decide.

As far as I was aware she had converted to catholicisim, but that may well be hearsay for the time being. Time will tell.

LadyMacAlpine · #**1044** 03-02-2011, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madame Royale

Thanks for that Nathalie. Appreciated.

But it's pertinent to note that no where did that provided extract conclude that she hasn't converted, or that she won't. It was only stated that it is at her discreation, her free will to decide.

As far as I was aware she had converted to catholicisim, but that may well be hearsay for the time being. Time will tell.

The press said she had converted, and mentioned catechism and someone put it on Wikipedia she had without confirmation. The press has also said she was a school teacher before moving to Monaco which we all know is incorrect. This is why things get confused especially where Charlene is involved. She was asked had she converted she said she was a Christian, not that she had become a Catholic.

Quote:

No, she's free to decide.

which would mean no she has not yet converted and can if she wants. If she is taking catechism classes she will convert at Easter Vigil with everyone else in the world who is converting. If she has not been baptized they will do it then.

Fürstin Taxis · #**1045** 03-02-2011, 01:05 PM

Is it possible to convert during the ceremony?

Renata4711 · #**1046** 03-02-2011, 03:46 PM

I wouldn't have thought so !
It would disrupt the festivities, I'd imagine...

jonc93 · #**1047** 03-02-2011, 04:13 PM

No one has said she didn't convert Barsi said she doesn't have to but can! I'm sure she will because it would just make sense to. She crosses herself, wears the mantilla, has communion: tell tell sign that she is or has converted to Catholicism, although we will not know unless she tells us herself...

KittyAtlanta · #**1048** 03-02-2011, 04:22 PM

One of your comments "has communion" leads me to believe she has converted. I know she has a special position, but I know of no Roman Catholic priest who would knowingly administer the sacraments to a Protestant.

Bones · #**1049** 03-02-2011, 04:32 PM

Yes, that would be a dead give-away. If she has taken communion, she's Catholic, simple as that. Say what you will about the Grimaldis, they seem to be pretty good about not presenting themselves for communion if they are not fit to receive it. I just had a look back at the national day festivities (couldn't tell about the communion thing of course) and she took the holy water, crossed herself and genuflected to the Archbishop -all things that my Protestant relatives would not do if their lives depended on it! Maybe know one outside the circle knows, but I can certainly see why some media would report that she's Catholic already. If she's not she certainly seems to be giving that impression.

Madame Royale · #**1050** 03-02-2011, 08:09 PM

Quote:

which would mean no she has not yet converted and can if she wants.

It means nothing of the sort.

It is merely an indavidual stating that it is at Charlene's discreation. No where did he say she hasn't, won't or that she will.

Quote:

she said she was a Christian

Technically speaking a Catholic is a Christian.

Moonmaiden23 · #**1051** 03-02-2011, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonc93

No one has said she didn't convert Barsi said she doesn't have to but can! I'm sure she will because it would just make sense to. She crosses herself, wears the mantilla, has communion: tell tell sign that she is or has converted to Catholicism, although we will not know unless she tells us herself...

IF CW took the Sacrament during Mass then she has converted, no ifs or buts.

The Church does not allow non-Catholics to receive the Eucharist, unless it is a dire life or death emergency.

It would be considered sacrilege to do that.

ETA...there really is no such thing as being "just Christian". If you are not Orthodox, and are one of the many Christian denominations that do not recognize the Bishop of Rome as Head of the Church then you are quite simply a PROTESTANT Christian.

That is why I found it so jarring when CW made that statement...I got the feeling that she didn't know the difference.

hibou · #**1052** 03-03-2011, 08:28 AM

If she has converted, don't you think Barsi would have said so? It's easy if she has, even the palace website would say she has and they would be the first to do so. When Amber at first said she was keeping her Catholic faith the palace press office stated so, and when she changed her mind at the last minute, they palace office issued another statement. I'm sure if Charlene had converted the palace website would state it. JMO

Madame Royale · #**1053** 03-03-2011, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hibou

If she has converted, don't you think Barsi would have said so?

No because it is not his place to say so, no matter who he is.

It is up to the court as to when, or if, that information is made public. And it wouldn't be before the marriage I'd imagine.

Quote:

I'm sure if Charlene had converted the palace website would state it.

I don't see why the palace would have to publicise any such information when until her marriage, Miss Wittstock is not a member of the princely family. Until she is married, there is no obligation that information of her religious beliefs should be made public.

I find her response of being 'Christian' a perfectly acceptable one at the current time, even if I myself do believe it very likely that she has converted to the denomination of Catholicism, specifically.

Moonmaiden23 · #**1054** 03-03-2011, 03:53 PM

I suppose we will just have to wait and see.

If she is passed over for communion during her own Nuptial Mass, we will have our answer.

jonc93 · #**1055** 03-03-2011, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23

ETA...there really is no such thing as being "just Christian". If you are not Orthodox, and are one of the many Christian denominations that do not recognize the Bishop of Rome as Head of the Church then you are quite simply a PROTESTANT Christian.

That is why I found it so jarring when CW made that statement...I got the feeling that she didn't know the difference.

Not quite! A Christian is any person who believe Jesus Christ is the son of God and died on the cross for us. Then Christianity is divided into four popular denominations which are: Catholic, Protestant, Eastern (orthodox), and Non-trinitarian(not so common). If you are a Protestant you are a Christian of the Protestant domination, if you are Catholic you are a Christian of the Catholic denomination, if you are Eastern Orthodox then you are a Christian of the Eastern Orthodox denomination. So if you aren't Orthodox, or Catholic that doesn't make your title a PROTESTANT Christian, because you can chose to not belong to any denomination. All 4 denominations have equal rights to just be "Christians".

Jaya · #**1056** 03-03-2011, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hibou

If she has converted, don't you think Barsi would have said so? It's easy if she has, even the palace website would say she has and they would be the first to do so. When Amber at first said she was keeping her Catholic faith the palace press office stated so, and when she changed her mind at the last minute, they palace office issued another statement. I'm sure if Charlene had converted the palace website would state it. JMO

I have to agree with you hibou. If Charlene had converted there would be ample notification on the palace website one would think. Cw did not ever say in her interview that she looked forward to conversion..was in the process etc...This is another aspect[like the marriiage date] that is quite confusing actually.

KittyAtlanta · #**1057** 03-03-2011, 06:38 PM

Jaya, has the date been changed again, or are you just using their earlier date changes to prove something?

Jonc93, very well put. Thank you.

melina premiere · #**1058** 03-03-2011, 07:54 PM

The date of the civil ceremony is on july the first at 17h and the religious ceremony is on july the second at 17h,the dates of the wedding has not been changed again as you can see it on the officiel announce of the principaly palace site.It is also translate in english iif you cannot understand french. The changing of the date in july 2010 is an old history, you can speak of other subject

I saw all the mass of the national fest, I saw it on the tmc TV a monegash channel we receive in France. She made all the gests that the princely family did during the mass, but only Prince Albert receiced the communion, Princess Caroline, Princess Stephanie and Charlene did not receive the communion. It was as the other years, only Prince Albert receive the communion.For the Sainte devote mass where she was with Albert there was only short film, but I saw Charlene crossing herself when she arrived at her armchair. At the National fest mass she only inclined the head in front of the altar, as a protestant person does when he is in a catholic church.
I am catholic and I am also chretien as a protestant person is chretien, the two religions are chretien,

On the site of Daylife when you click or writte Charlene wittstock, you see the rooms of museum where there will be the dinner and ball, they are in renovation for the wedding as the palace and you can see the official photo of the engagement on the glass of shops

Madame Royale · #**1059** 03-03-2011, 09:19 PM

Quote:

but I saw Charlene crossing herself when she arrived at her armchair

A person of the Protestant faith will, traditionally, not observe the signum crucis. As such, the motion is not present throughout most forms of Protestantism.

Nathalie Cox · #**1060** 03-03-2011, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by melina premiere

I saw all the mass of the national fest, I saw it on the tmc TV a monegash channel we receive in France. She made all the gests that the princely family did during the mass, but only Prince Albert receiced the communion, Princess Caroline, Princess Stephanie and Charlene did not receive the communion. It was as the other years, only Prince Albert receive the communion.For the Sainte devote mass where she was with Albert there was only short film, but I saw Charlene crossing herself when she arrived at her armchair. At the National fest mass she only inclined the head in front of the altar, as a protestant person does when he is in a catholic church.
I am catholic and I am also chretien as a protestant person is chretien, the two religions are chretien,

Well it's quite simple then. She didn't convert. She is still protestant.
If she made the cross sign, it can be sign of respect as Kitty Atlanta said. Now, if she hasn't take communion, that probably means that she is not catholic.
At PPDA interview she said she was christian, not catholic, not protestant. With such answer, we can imagine anything. It's an ambigous answer.
And with Barsi saying that it's up to her certain things, that definitely means she is and will stay protestant.