Distribution of Jewels in the British Royal Family

[RubyPrincess168]

In relation to her choice of jewellery, I suspect (clearly conjecture here!) that HM has probably spent some time in recent years going through the royal jewellery collection for the following reasons: a) incorporating the Queen Mothers jewellery b) sorting out and identifying items that can be made available to Camilla c) probably thinking about what might be appropriate for the grand children as they come of age, and d) as she goes through the royal vaults, clearly aware of her own mortality, having a go at some long forgotten jewels.

I suspect it's more of options B & C with a smidgen of D thrown in here and there. I'm sure she's thinking about her will and bequests to her children, grandchildren and future great-grandchildren, as well as what Camilla could use in the present.

 

[whippetsitter]

Are you kidding?

officially Diana was married to Charles for 15 years yet she only got ONE tiara yet Camilla has been married to him for 2 years and has the use of TWO tiaras so i cant really see your point that if Diana had been around for longer she would have got more tiaras as she was around for more years

I really don't get the point of your posting. It really is not a contest and, guys, please stop comparing Camilla to Diana.

 

[PrincessKaimi]

I think the Queen should give tiaras (not lend them) to all her granddaughters and granddaughters-in-law. That's what I would do, anyway. It would be a nice gesture and the girls should get to feel like princesses. After nearly a lifetime of being Queen, I would really want to do that.

 

[Madame Royale]

I think the Queen should give tiaras (not lend them) to all her granddaughters and granddaughters-in-law. That's what I would do, anyway. It would be a nice gesture and the girls should get to feel like princesses. After nearly a lifetime of being Queen, I would really want to do that.

I don't see the logic in that though, myself.

Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie will either be granted the use of a tiara by the Queen or use their mothers wedding tiara for their own wedding's should they ever marry. Depending on whether or not they become fulltime working members of the royal will determine weather or not they require the frequent use of a tiara for white tie or gala occasions.

Zara isn't a royal and neither is Autumn. They have no need for a tiara. And if they do then the Princess Royal will I'm sure oblige them with the use of one.

The Duchess of Cambridge is a different story and has probably been permanently loaned the use of the Teck Crescent Tiara. Catherine will have also inherited the use of jewellery having belonged to the late Diana, Princess of Wales. And in due course Catherine stands to use many more tiara's as Princess of Wales and Queen Consort.

 

[HRHHermione]

I think the Queen should give tiaras (not lend them) to all her granddaughters and granddaughters-in-law. That's what I would do, anyway. It would be a nice gesture and the girls should get to feel like princesses. After nearly a lifetime of being Queen, I would really want to do that.

If she did that, there's a very good chance that some historical pieces would leave the royal collection and end up being sold eventually.

Keeping them all as part of the collection passed from sovereign to sovereign is what keeps them in the family.

It would be nice to see of them loaned out more often though

 

[Tilia C.]

I think the Queen should give tiaras (not lend them) to all her granddaughters and granddaughters-in-law. That's what I would do, anyway. It would be a nice gesture and the girls should get to feel like princesses. After nearly a lifetime of being Queen, I would really want to do that.

Imo, that would only make sense, if there still were regular tiara events for all of them. Like in the good old days. Unfortunately there aren't and only the Duchess of Cambrigde and Harry's future wife will need tiaras. The other granddaughter would be better off with other jewellery as heirlooms. Necklaces, earrings, and stuff they actually will have occasions to wear. Apart from that, they will inherit their mother's tiaras, so there will be wedding tiaras for the future generations around.

The only occasion where they all might have a chance to wear tiaras, will be the next coronations. But the question is: will it be a tiara event? I certainly hope so, but Charles obviously has plans for modernizing the monarchy. I just fear that he will do away with some of the good old pomp and cercumstance. What do you people think?

 

[Madame Royale]

What do you people think?

I hate to admit it, but I too think that the Coronation of Charles III is unlikely to be a tiara affair. I hope I am wrong, very much so, but I'd not be surprised if that were the case.

Personally, and not to get too off topic, but I do wish that Denmark still observed a Coronation.

 

[Stefan]

Imo, that would only make sense, if there still were regular tiara events for all of them. Like in the good old days. Unfortunately there aren't and only the Duchess of Cambrigde and Harry's future wife will need tiaras. The other granddaughter would be better off with other jewellery as heirlooms. Necklaces, earrings, and stuff they actually will have occasions to wear. Apart from that, they will inherit their mother's tiaras, so there will be wedding tiaras for the future generations around.

But for the York'sSarah has only one tiara. so which daughter will get it?. But i agree that the Queen coulpd give some of her smaller necklaces to her granddaughters. She has several ruby, emerald/sapphire and lotsof diamdon necklaces which where given to her at State Visits and they get even more (like the Duchess of Cornwall a few years ago). There are so many necklaces in the collection that's to muhc to use so she could geve each of her granddaughters one or two necklaces and a brooshe.

 

[Stefan]

I hate to admit it, but I too think that the Coronation of Charles III is unlikely to be a tiara affair. I hope I am wrong, very much so, but I'd not be surprised if that were the case.

Don't hope so. Otherwise it would be really disappointing if they even would downgrade this special Events which occurs only every 20+ years (over 60 with Charles) in therms of glitter.

 

[Madame Royale]

But for the York'sSarah has only one tiara. so which daughter will get it?. But i agree that the Queen coulpd give some of her smaller necklaces to her granddaughters. She has several ruby, emerald/sapphire and lotsof diamdon necklaces which where given to her at State Visits and they get even more (like the Duchess of Cornwall a few years ago). There are so many necklaces in the collection that's to muhc to use so she could geve each of her granddaughters one or two necklaces and a brooshe.

I see no reason why both Beatrice and Eugenie can't use the same tiara for their weddings?

Gifts presented to the monarch on State Visits automatically become the possession of the state. The monarch acts only as the custodian of such gifts.

Any jewellery the Queen would like to bequeth to her family can only be personal items which were gifted to her by family, friends, spinsters, or realms of which she is Queen (so outside of the UK). Also, jewellery which was acquired officially before she succeeded her father.

Don't hope so. Otherwise it would be really disappointing if they even would downgrade this special Events which occurs only every 20+ years (over 60 with Charles) in therms of glitter.

I am in total agreement with you on that.

 

[Stefan]

I see no reason why both Beatrice and Eugenie can't use the same tiara for their weddings?

Gifts presented to the monarch on State Visits automatically become the possession of the state. The monarch acts only as the custodian of such gifts.

Yes of course Beatrice and Eugenie can use both Sarah's tiara for their Wedding's. Both what if there is a Tiara-Event when both would be present? And who ofboth should inheit it?.
Is thar rule for gifts to the Head of State not only in force since around 1990?.
Don't think there is a needthat the Royal collection needs 3-5 different ruby/emerald or sapphire necklaces for example.

 

[Mirabel]

I don't believe the Queen should give away any of the tiaras; they are part of the royal collection and should remain so.

Look what happened to the Poltimore tiara that belonged to Princess Margaret! It was sold and, I believe, later broken up.
That could never have happened if that tiara had been a loan and not a gift.

 

[Warren]

The Poltimore tiara is not the bext example. It was bought specifically by or for Princess Margaret (reports differ) and had no more [prior] royal provenance than the tiara bought from Garrards in 1986 for the Duchess of York. Neither tiara could be classed as 'heirloom'.

 

[Stefan]

I don't believe the Queen should give away any of the tiaras; they are part of the royal collection and should remain so.

But she could give some more tiaras out as lifetime loans, so that they return after the death of the one to who it was loaned. or simple loan a tiara for certain occasions, like it's done in Sweden or the Netherlands for example.

 

[Baroness of Books]

I like the idea of the lifetime loans; it gives the opportunity for seldom-seen pieces from the royal collection to be worn by relatives who do not have access to these jewels while keeping ownership intact with the monarch. Now we just need the occasions at which we can see them - like some formal Jubilee events.

 

[Warren]

But who exactly are these "relatives who don't have access"?
Princess Anne has three tiaras so Zara and Autumn are covered; the only current "shortfall" lies with the Yorks.
I doubt if Sarah, Duchess of York will have occasion to wear her tiara again so either Beatrice or Eugenie comes up short.
If the occasion demanded it it's on the cards that HM would come up with something suitable without too much trouble.

 

[Stefan]

But who exactly are these "relatives who don't have access"?
Princess Anne has three tiaras so Zara and Autumn are covered; the only current "shortfall" lies with the Yorks.
I doubt if Sarah, Duchess of York will have occasion to wear her tiara again so either Beatrice or Eugenie comes up short.
If the occasion demanded it it's on the cards that HM would come up with something suitable without too much trouble.

Sophie has only 2 and given the amount of unused tiaras in the Vaults HM could loan her one more and perhaps also a smaller one to Camilla so that she not needs to use the Honeycomb all the time (as she has worn the Delhi Durbar only one time, i think it was perhaps an one time loan).

 

[Baroness of Books]

I think so, too; the royal collection holds so many other possible tiaras that haven't been seen or circulated that perhaps there could be more rotation of these pieces to the royal ladies who have more occasion to wear them. Just because they already have tiaras doesn't mean they can't vary among the others.

 

[Tilia C.]

Quite right. Maybe we should make a petition and send it to HM? And let's mention to her that we also want white tie galas for the jubilee, major birthdays and anniversaries. So that we can properly appreciate her stunning collection.

 

[Susanna Wynne]

Coronation Rituals and Tiaras

It was suggested in a prior posting or two on this forum that perhaps the next Coronation would be downgraded from a "tiara event." I checked a website that contains the official coronation liturgy from 1953 (and which closely followed those of previous coronations).

Here is the direction from the official liturgy that happens at the moment of the actual crowning of the new monarch:

Then with the Queen (King) still sitting in King Edward's Chair, the Archbishop, assisted with other Bishops, shall come to the Altar: the Dean of Westminster shall bring the Crown, and the Archbishop taking it of him shall reverently put it upon the Queen's (King's) head. At the sight whereof the people, with loud and repeated shouts, shall cry,

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN (OR KING)

The Princes and Princesses, the Peers and Peeresses shall put on their coronets and caps, and the Kings of Arms their crowns; and the trumpets shall sound, and by a signal given, the great guns at the Tower shall be shot off.

It doesn't seem likely that this beautiful and moving ritual would be deleted from a future coronation... And I recall from photos of the Coronation that many other guests who were not peers/peeresses or prince/princesses of English royal blood indeed wore tiaras. Therefore, the York princesses will likely have coronets with caps of maintenance (the velvet linings) created for Charles's cornonation, which will be their right as princesses of the blood, and not wear tiaras, per se to the actual ceremony.

 

[MARG]

I don't see the logic in that though, myself.

Quite right! The idea of decimating the tiara stock in the vaults to give to girls that will have very little, if indeed any, chance to wear them leads inevitably to their being sold off! Lost forever to us, along with their history and their beauty. Regardless of their provenance, their fate will probably be destruction for the sum of their gems!

The Duchess of Cambridge is a different story and has probably been permanently loaned the use of the Teck Crescent Tiara. Catherine will have also inherited the use of jewellery having belonged to the late Diana, Princess of Wales. And in due course Catherine stands to use many more tiara's as Princess of Wales and Queen Consort.

Did I miss something? When has Catherine worn the Teck Crescent Tiara? I thought her only permanent loan was her wedding tiara, the Halo Scroll.

 

[jemagre]

The Duchess of Cambridge is a different story and has probably been permanently loaned the use of the Teck Crescent Tiara. Catherine will have also inherited the use of jewellery having belonged to the late Diana, Princess of Wales. And in due course Catherine stands to use many more tiara's as Princess of Wales and Queen Consort.

Have not heard of this either. Also Diana had TWO sons not ONE. I am sure that Harry and by default his wife, will also be allowed to wear her pieces. The Queen will also probably give Harry's wife an old tiara because in the current economic times it would be seen as too controversial to spend money on that when there are so many in the family.

 

[Madame Royale]

Did I miss something? When has Catherine worn the Teck Crescent Tiara? I thought her only permanent loan was her wedding tiara, the Halo Scroll.

You missed nothing. Quite right, the Halo Scroll is what I meant.

Also Diana had TWO sons not ONE

Ah yes, the capitalisation of words as though to highlight for the "benefit" of others, what is otherwise a known fact.

I don't recall saying she had one son and I no where stated that Catherine stands to inherit all of Diana's jewellery.

 

[Warren]

Yes, most readers of these threads would be well-aware that Diana's personal jewellery was divided between her two sons. Therefore when a member posts, for example, "Catherine will have access to Diana's jewels", the statement doesn't require qualification or mention of Harry or his future wife.

 

[jemagre]

Yes, most readers of these threads would be well-aware that Diana's personal jewellery was divided between her two sons. Therefore when a member posts, for example, "Catherine will have access to Diana's jewels", the statement doesn't require qualification or mention of Harry or his future wife.

I disagree hence the reason why I said it. Many times people only mention Kate. Until someone shows up wearing it I think is is safe to say they don't have it yet.

 

[Madame Royale]

Many times people only mention Kate

I should wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that Catherine is William's wife and Henry, as of yet, doesn't have one.

Just a thought.

 

[Warren]

Post discussing the division of Diana's jewellery have been moved to the Diana, Princess of Wales Jewellery thread.

 

[IloveCP]

Here is a lot of info on personal property and giving aways tiaras:

The Royal Order of Sartorial Splendor: Royal Splendor 101: Personal Property

http://orderofsplendor.blogspot.com/2011/11/royal-splendor-101-loaned-jewels.html

http://orderofsplendor.blogspot.com/2011/10/royal-splendor-101-family-jewel.html

 

[PrincessKaimi]

Fascinating article, ILoveCP. Sounds as if the public is often guessing as to who owns what, and has to watch what the royals do to see if collections are personal (sounds like most are). Interesting that Princess Grace's m-i-l didn't want to part with any jewels.

 

[Warren]

Discussion of the late Princess Charlotte of Monaco's jewels has been moved to the Grimaldi Family Jewels thread.