Diana's Jewels: Potential Division Between William and Harry

[muriel]

Is there an argument to suggest that jewels that Diana received from foreign heads of state in her capacity as then consort to the Prince of Wales should go to Catherine? I know that prevailing rules at the time would not have required those jewels to be added to the Royal Collection, but by allocating them to the future Queen, you are potentially safeguarding their future and possibly preventing a diplomatic incident arising from their use or their potential sale at some time in the future if they were to leave the main line.

 

[Curryong]

And leaving Meghan with just the cheaper crumbs? A division of that sort would go directly against Diana's wishes to leave her sons' wives with an equable slice of her jewellery.

 

[Lumutqueen]

And leaving Meghan with just the cheaper crumbs? A division of that sort would go directly against Diana's wishes to leave her sons' wives with an equable slice of her jewellery.

Can we really refer to any jewellery that Diana had as cheaper crumbs?

Frankly to me division of jewellery has always been about sentimental attachment to a piece. Henry might have an emotional attachment to a bracelet because of x y x, when Williams never seen it etc.

 

[Denville]

And leaving Meghan with just the cheaper crumbs? A division of that sort would go directly against Diana's wishes to leave her sons' wives with an equable slice of her jewellery.

I thought that she just divided her property equally between the 2 boys, does her will make any mention of jewellery or her sons' wives??

 

[muriel]

And leaving Meghan with just the cheaper crumbs? A division of that sort would go directly against Diana's wishes to leave her sons' wives with an equable slice of her jewellery.

IMO, a collection of the following gems, amongst others, cannot be called "cheaper crumbs". Items could potentially include the iconic sapphire and diamond choker (the brooch used for the choker originally a gift from QEQM), the emerald and diamond earrings from the PoW, the aquamarine and diamond earrings along with the co-ordinating bracelet and ring and perhaps many more privately owned jewels.

 

[muriel]

I thought that she just divided her property equally between the 2 boys, does her will make any mention of jewellery or her sons' wives??

AFAIK, her will was not made public. And I would not suggest that anything other than an equal split of Diana's estate, by value, be achieved.

 

[Denville]

IMO, a collection of the following gems, amongst others, cannot be called "cheaper crumbs". Items could potentially include the iconic sapphire and diamond choker (the brooch used for the choker originally a gift from QEQM), the emerald and diamond earrings from the PoW, the aquamarine and diamond earrings along with the co-ordinating bracelet and ring and perhaps many more privately owned jewels.

But Diana's will has long since been executed. Harry has his share of Di's fortune and so has William. The jewels have presumably been divided up, between the 2 sons and their wives will wear tehm or not. Meg's taste does not seem to run to the sort of jewels that Diana wore.. so perhaps she's not seen in them because she doesn't like them...

 

[muriel]

But Diana's will has long since been executed. Harry has his share of Di's fortune and so has William. The jewels have presumably been divided up, between the 2 sons and their wives will wear tehm or not.

Indeed. The point I was making is whether the source of the jewels could have been a factor in deciding how well to divide them between William and Harry.

Meg's taste does not seem to run to the sort of jewels that Diana wore.. so perhaps she's not seen in them because she doesn't like them...

I also think Meghan did not have very many opportunities in her very brief royal career to have worn that many of Diana's jewels even if she was keen on them.

 

[Denville]

Indeed. The point I was making is whether the source of the jewels could have been a factor in deciding how well to divide them between William and Harry.



I also think Meghan did not have very many opportunities in her very brief royal career to have worn that many of Diana's jewels even if she was keen on them.

I'd assume that it was meant to be a completely 50-50 division-, but I see the point of Kate's having some of the more "formal" pieces as she will be wearing stuff like that throughout her royal life,.. whereas Meghan isn't at present a working royal. Its possible that the jewels have been divided up, and Harry and Meg have their share and WIll and Kate have theirs.. but as you say Meghan has not attended that many royal events so she hasn't worn them...

 

[muriel]

I'd assume that it was meant to be a completely 50-50 division-, but I see the point of Kate's having some of the more "formal" pieces as she will be wearing stuff like that throughout her royal life,.. whereas Meghan isn't at present a working royal. Its possible that the jewels have been divided up, and Harry and Meg have their share and WIll and Kate have theirs.. but as you say Meghan has not attended that many royal events so she hasn't worn them...

I agree, that I am sure the division has already happened. It was probably agreed upon around the time of H&Ms wedding.

 

[Curryong]

Spectacular jewellery can be worn on other occasions besides Royal ones. And Diana, especially in the 199Os, wore a lot of not so expensive bling in the shape of costume jewellery. That was part of her private collection as well as the major pieces.

The jewellery might have been officially divided (apart from the sapphire engagement ring) around the time of Harry's thirtieth birthday. I seem to remember that both sons came into their full share of Diana's money on their 30th birthdays, and it was around the time that Harry was thirty that the exhibition at Althorp, organised by Earl Spencer several years before, which contained Diana's wedding dress and many pieces of her furniture from KP, was finally wound up.

 

[Denville]

I agree, that I am sure the division has already happened. It was probably agreed upon around the time of H&Ms wedding.

True, I understand that Di's sapphire engagement ring went to which ever of them got married first.. (I presume WIll knew that Kate would like it) and Harry got some other ring when he got engaged...but Im sure that there was a division of property of roughly equal value.... but Meg does not seem to go in for the more ornate style of jewellery (Kate doesn't wear a lot of very ornate things either but more than Meghan). SO I assume she does not like those big fancy pieces. So they migtht be remodelled for her...

 

[muriel]

True, I understand that Di's sapphire engagement ring went to which ever of them got married first.. (I presume WIll knew that Kate would like it) and Harry got some other ring when he got engaged...but Im sure that there was a division of property of roughly equal value.... but Meg does not seem to go in for the more ornate style of jewellery (Kate doesn't wear a lot of very ornate things either but more than Meghan). SO I assume she does not like those big fancy pieces. So they migtht be remodelled for her...

Now that Meghan's brief royal career has ended, query how much serious jewellery she is actually going to wear.

 

[Denville]

Now that Meghan's brief royal career has ended, query how much serious jewellery she is actually going to wear.

True, I don't think either she or Kate can carry off the bigger grander pieces all that well and if Meg is going ot have a quiet life with few glam events, I can't see if she will need big jewels.

 

[muriel]

True, I don't think either she or Kate can carry off the bigger grander pieces all that well and if Meg is going ot have a quiet life with few glam events, I can't see if she will need big jewels.

I have not seen Meghan in many substantial pieces of jewelery so cannot comment, but I think Kate now has the confidernce and presence to wear some major bling, as demonstrated by her more recent appearances at the Diplomatic Receptions and at the state banquets for the Dutch.

 

[Curryong]

Well, we all presume she has some of Diana's pieces, so it's up to Meghan if she wears them in the future, has them remodelled, which she may do, or keeps them in her jewellery box for her child(ren.)

 

[Denville]

I have not seen Meghan in many substantial pieces of jewelery so cannot comment, but I think Kate now has the confidernce and presence to wear some major bling, as demonstrated by her more recent appearances at the Diplomatic Receptions and at the state banquets for the Dutch.

Yes I think that Kate is maturing, and can carry them off better now.. but still she is so very slender... I don't think they look so good on her. Diana was slim too but her dress style (which was of course bigger and more flamboyant in the 80s) balanced out the jewels better.

 

[Queen Claude]

The thought occurred to me that Charles may have bought the jewels that Diana received as part of state occasions as part of the divorce settlement. This is of course speculation, but if true, then jewels from state occasions are now either property of Charles or The Queen.

It should be noted that Diana had substantial jewels that were not acquired via state occasions like the large aquamarine ring.

 

[Nice Nofret]

IMHO Jewels from state occassions , like every other present from foreign states, belong to the crown - who ever recieved them; if the reciever liked sth. speacialy they had to 'buy' it from the crown e.g. pay taxes on it etc.

 

[Denville]

At the time Diana was married, gifts could become the property of the reciptient. It is different now.

 

[Pranter]

In the 90's the rules changed about being able to keep these gifts ..most of Diana's jewelry (that was gifted) was her personal property.


LaRae

 

[Denville]

In the 90's the rules changed about being able to keep these gifts ..most of Diana's jewelry (that was gifted) was her personal property.


LaRae

Yes but wasn't there some kind of caveat that while it was hers and not the Royal collection's she could not sell it?

 

[muriel]

Yes but wasn't there some kind of caveat that while it was hers and not the Royal collection's she could not sell it?

I think you are referring to the arrangement arrived at the time of the divorce. Diana was allowed to keep and use all the jewellery for her life time, but she could neither sell it or lend it to anyone.

 

[Denville]

I think you are referring to the arrangement arrived at the time of the divorce. Diana was allowed to keep and use all the jewellery for her life time, but she could neither sell it or lend it to anyone.

So how does that work out in terms of willing it? It was her property? So therefore she could leave it to anyone she liked in her Will? if it does to William and Harry, can they sell it?

 

[muriel]

So how does that work out in terms of willing it? It was her property? So therefore she could leave it to anyone she liked in her Will? if it does to William and Harry, can they sell it?

Let me clarify what I meant. At the time of the divorce, Diana was allowed to keep and use all the jewellery for her life time, but she could neither sell it or lend it to anyone. At the end of her life, her personal jewellery would have been hers to dispose off as she deemed fit, whilst the "royal" jewellery ("RJ") would revert to the "main line". I am conscience of a number of issues this may raise.

> Was jewellery received in her role as then consort to the Prince of Wales ("Gifted Jewels") truely hers, or would that be considered to be RJ and revert to the "main line"?

> Would the Queen / PoW take the view that, given the lack of clear rules prevalent at the time (which did not come into force till 2006-07), the Gifted Jewels could indeed be considered as personal possessions?

> However, despite these being personal possessions, there being a need to "protect" these Gifted Jewels so as to avoid a potential diplomatic incident concerning their potential use at a future time by a former Princess of Wales no longer bound by BP / KP or government guidelines? In that case, might similar rules to the RJ apply to the Gifted Jewels?

> Was Diana ever seen in a substantial piece from the Gifted Jewels in the year or so she lived after her divorce? I think not, but could be wrong. She certainly did use the items from the RJ, including the choker and bracelet of the Delhi Durbar emerald and diamond demi-parure.

This is clearly my interpretation, based on information in the public domain. Others may take a different view.

 

[Denville]

Let me clarify what I meant. At the time of the divorce, Diana was allowed to keep and use all the jewellery for her life time, but she could neither sell it or lend it to anyone. At the end of her life, her personal jewellery would have been hers to dispose off as she deemed fit, whilst the "royal" jewellery ("RJ") would revert to the "main line". I am conscience of a number of issues this may raise.

> Was jewellery received in her role as then consort to the Prince of Wales ("Gifted Jewels") truely hers, or would that be considered to be RJ and revert to the "main line"?

> Would the Queen / PoW take the view that, given the lack of clear rules prevalent at the time (which did not come into force till 2006-07), the Gifted Jewels could indeed be considered as personal possessions?

> However, despite these being personal possessions, there being a need to "protect" these Gifted Jewels so as to avoid a potential diplomatic incident concerning their potential use at a future time by a former Princess of Wales no longer bound by BP / KP or government guidelines? In that case, might similar rules to the RJ apply to the Gifted Jewels?

> Was Diana ever seen in a substantial piece from the Gifted Jewels in the year or so she lived after her divorce? I think not, but could be wrong. She certainly did use the items from the RJ, including the choker and bracelet of the Delhi Durbar emerald and diamond demi-parure.

This is clearly my interpretation, based on information in the public domain. Others may take a different view.

Thanks. Its kind of you to take so much time to write it all out. I agree that it does seem to be a complicated issue. I don't think that Diana was seen in the gifted jewels after her divorce, but she was leading a simpler life and didn't perhaps have much opportunity to wear them... or perhaps the RF didn't want her to be seen wearing them as the issue of "were they hers personally or jewels from the collection" might arise and become public? And yes I think that although there were not clear rules at the time of Diana's married life about jewels received as a gift, they were given to Diana as wife of the POW, rather than to Diana the person, so there is a case for saying that they were not truly her personal property...
So in addition, I suppose that the gifted jewels went back to the Royal collection when Diana died? Whereas her "own" jewels.. ie stuff she bought herself or Charles or other Brtiish royals gave her, were hers and she could leave them to her sons.

 

[Curryong]

Did Charles gift Diana with huge amounts of personal jewellery? I can't ever remember reading that he did. If he didn't and the very valuable pieces from Heads of State etc are to go back into the Royal Collection for Kate to use eventually, what would be left for Meghan, considering that it's acknowledged that much of the jewellery Diana wore after her divorce was often costume jewellery?

The jewellery in Diana's possession at the time of her death was meant to be divided as equally as possible between her sons for their wives, regardless of their future status and position.

 

[Denville]

Did Charles gift Diana with huge amounts of personal jewellery? I can't ever remember reading that he did. If he didn't and the very valuable pieces are to go back into the Royal Collection for Kate to use eventually, what would be there for Meghan, considering that it's acknowledged that much of the jewellery Diana wore after her divorce was often costume jewellery?

The jewellery in Diana's possession at the time of her death was meant to be divided as equally as possible between her sons for their wives, regardless of their future status and position.

I don't know what Charles gave Diana but Im sure he gave her some jewellery, and the queen I think also gave her jewels as gifts. THe point being that what Di was given from her own family, friends or bought for herself is her own jewellery and she could will it as she chose. But it sounds possibly that the gifted jewels, while she coudl keep them for life, were not considered hers to leave? I am not sure. And If Kate is going to be Princess fo Wales and then queen, she will get the use of the Royal collection and its jewels.. that's a fact given her position but they wont be her personal property. I dont know what the situation was, for certain, whether Di's gifted jewels were considered part of her own personal property and something she cuodl will to her heirs.. or whether they were considered crown property and something that she could use during her lifetime but not lend to anyone, give away or leave to her heirs.

 

[muriel]

Did Charles gift Diana with huge amounts of personal jewellery? I can't ever remember reading that he did. If he didn't and the very valuable pieces from Heads of State etc are to go back into the Royal Collection for Kate to use eventually, what would be left for Meghan, considering that it's acknowledged that much of the jewellery Diana wore after her divorce was often costume jewellery?

The jewellery in Diana's possession at the time of her death was meant to be divided as equally as possible between her sons for their wives, regardless of their future status and position.

> If you take away the gifted jewels that Diana received in her role as then consort to the Prince of Wales ("GJ"), Meghan could have a share of those that remained. What proportion of the remaining jewels she could potentially receive would depend on how large / valuable the collection was, or what each of the boys chose to keep for themselves as part of the legacy from their mother.

> As to those GJ that were added to the Royal Collection or set aside for the main line, Kate would only get to use as a future Princess of Wales or Queen. They would not belong to her or William personally. Their share would be from the remaining jewellery that was not GJ.

> Diana lived for about a year after her divorce. In that time, how much of her jewellery was fake or real remains a moot point. She certaily wore her Delhi Durbar emerald demi-parure, as well as her aquamarines.

 

[Pranter]

From what I understand items prior to the law in the early 90's going into effect the gifted jewelry were hers to keep (not talking about personal items given to her by friends/family) after that law then gifts would revert to the Crown, not able to be considered personal possessions/jewelry. Obviously jewelry lent to her by the Queen etc were never her personal possessions. She wore a lot of costume jewelry from what I recall reading but I assumed at some point her sons went thru what they were left and discarded what they didn't want to keep or pass down.

We know Meghan's engagement ring was in part from diamonds left by Diana to her sons. We've seen both Kate and Meghan wearing some well known pieces of Diana's collection. How they split it all up is unknown.


LaRae