Eloise, Claus-Casimir and Leonore, News and Pictures Part 1: July 2003 -

[Duc_et_Pair]

We do not know middle names but more given names and surname

Given names:
Eloïse Sophie Beatrix Laurence

Name:
Eloïse

Surname:
van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg

Title:
gravin van Oranje-Nassau

Predicate:
jonkvrouw van Amsberg

Form of Address:
Hooggeboren Vrouwe (Highborn Lady)

[Princess_Eleanor]

I wanted to watch a little bit of the "Jachtseizoen" show with Eloise and ended up watching it all, because it was actually very funny!!

But I agree that this is not an appropriate thing for someone in her position to do. The inevitable word play on the name Oranje and the orange prison suit alone... surely not a desirable image for the Royal Family!

Though I think all of this could easily be solved if her parents told Eloise not to participate in shows like this. But since they appeared on the show themselves - most notably her mother, who helped her "flee" by driving her around The Hague - I think we can safely preclude that they didn't tell her not to participate.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Marengo

The only logic I remember is that people tend to prefer using the original name of the dynasty (geslacht) over the name of a lordship, IF their last name is a combination of the two. The lordship usually comes in the second part of a last name and the name of the dynasty comes first but not always.

Interesting, that seems logical.

In Belgium where it has become possible (although rare) to assign a double name (paternal and maternal) to children, it has become usual in those cases for the father's surname to come first.

Originally Posted by Prinsara

It's not really correct to call personal/first/middle names "Christian" names, considering all non-Christian people have them.

Moreover, there is no distinction between family and personal names in middle names; married women have often given their birth names to their children as middle names, and unlike other countries, there's no legal standing. It's just a middle name. Smith is just as equally a middle name as Samantha.

Yes, both points were made in the post you quoted.

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

We do not know middle names but more given names and surname

Given names:
Eloïse Sophie Beatrix Laurence

Name:
Eloïse

Surname:
van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg

Title:
gravin van Oranje-Nassau

Predicate:
jonkvrouw van Amsberg

Form of Address:
Hooggeboren Vrouwe (Highborn Lady)

From the legal point of view "gravin" is the title and "jonkvrouw" is the predicate; the surname "van Oranje-Nassau" and "van Amsberg" are not part of the title/predicate but must be transmitted together with it.

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by Princess_Eleanor

But I agree that this is not an appropriate thing for someone in her position to do. The inevitable word play on the name Oranje and the orange prison suit alone... surely not a desirable image for the Royal Family!



Though I think all of this could easily be solved if her parents told Eloise not to participate in shows like this. But since they appeared on the show themselves - most notably her mother, who helped her "flee" by driving her around The Hague - I think we can safely preclude that they didn't tell her not to participate.

For me, Eloise can do whatever she pleases as she is a private citizen- although she is only able to do all this because of the fact that she is the King's niece.
My issue is when the parents get involved. 'Tijn and Laurentien are high profile royals and lead very public lives- they shouldn't be involved in TikTok videos and TV shows .

[Duc_et_Pair]

I long for a Beatrix, an Elizabeth, a Margrethe, all embodying a total different idea of how a royal lady should be. But at the same time under Elizabeth we have a grandchild Harry sidestepping to celebbie life, under Margrethe we have a grandchild Nicolaï sidestepping to the catwalk and under Beatrix we have a grandchild Eloïse inventing herself as gravinfluencer.

Maybe it is just unavoidable. It happens in three Royal Houses which have (had) perfect Queens. And under said Queens it "derailed", so to say. After all, nons of these three ladies have their grandchildren on a leash...

[Biri]

And one more thing - these grandchildren you mentioned will never be reigning monarchs.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

I long for a Beatrix, an Elizabeth, a Margrethe, all embodying a total different idea of how a royal lady should be. But at the same time under Elizabeth we have a grandchild Harry sidestepping to celebbie life, under Margrethe we have a grandchild Nicolaï sidestepping to the catwalk and under Beatrix we have a grandchild Eloïse inventing herself as gravinfluencer.

Maybe it is just unavoidable. It happens in three Royal Houses which have (had) perfect Queens. And under said Queens it "derailed", so to say. After all, nons of these three ladies have their grandchildren on a leash...

Not sure how you can 'blame' Beatrix for something that happened during her son's reign. Eloise was only 10 when she abdicated.

[CrownPrincessJava]

Originally Posted by Biri

And one more thing - these grandchildren you mentioned will never be reigning monarchs.

This. Denmark, the Netherlands, Sweden, Belgium and a few more have stipulated that other than the Heir Apparent and their family, other children of the monarch are considered as private citizens. Thus grandchildren of the monarch are definitely considered private.

You cannot "blame" Beatrix, or any Regent for the actions of their grandchildren - especially those who are adults.

[Princess_Eleanor]

Originally Posted by Alisa

For me, Eloise can do whatever she pleases as she is a private citizen- although she is only able to do all this because of the fact that she is the King's niece.
My issue is when the parents get involved. 'Tijn and Laurentien are high profile royals and lead very public lives- they shouldn't be involved in TikTok videos and TV shows .

She's a private citizen, but as long as she is a Countess of Oranje-Nassau and 5th in line to the throne, I think one should be able to expect some decorum.

That's part of it, she is only invited on all these shows or to be on the cover of a magazine because she is a Countess of Oranje-Nassau, the King's niece and the former Queen's granddaughter. So if you get all these opportunities and invitations because of your close family connection to the throne, then yes, I think you should also consider how it will all reflect on the throne.

I'm not even saying can't be an Instagram "influencer" next to being a student, but if she just had more boundaries on what to do and what not to do...

I don't even know why her parents were involved in this - it baffles me a lot more than the fact that Eloise appeared on the "hunting season" show! They made her delete the TikTok video and in my opinion this was worse than the TikTok video... Though Eloise did delete the video and seems close to her parents, so I believe that if they told her not to appear on certain shows, she probably wouldn't.

I imagine Constantijn knew it wasn't appropriate for him to drive Eloise around on this show, but in reality, no, it wasn't appropriate for Laurentien either. What is she doing as a Princess and member of the Royal House driving a "getaway car" on a comedy reality show??

[kalnel]

Originally Posted by Princess_Eleanor

But I agree that this is not an appropriate thing for someone in her position to do. The inevitable word play on the name Oranje and the orange prison suit alone... surely not a desirable image for the Royal Family!.

I watched part of the show, but I don't speak Dutch, so a lot was lost on me. When Eloise was being introduced, the guy interviewing her pronounced her name like "van Oran-yee" (or something like that), but it sounded like she was correcting him by saying something more like the English word "orange." Was she correcting his pronunciation or making a reference to "orange" something?

[Princess_Eleanor]

Originally Posted by kalnel

I watched part of the show, but I don't speak Dutch, so a lot was lost on me. When Eloise was being introduced, the guy interviewing her pronounced her name like "van Oran-yee" (or something like that), but it sounded like she was correcting him by saying something more like the English word "orange." Was she correcting his pronunciation or making a reference to "orange" something?

I think she was correcting his pronunciation of her fourth name "Laurence", which is pronounced in a French way and he pronounced in a Dutch way. I think the issue was that the way he pronounced it, it sounded like the male name Laurens instead of the female Laurence. But I don't speak Dutch fluently either, so Dutch speakers feel free to correct me!

The Dutch word oranje literally means orange (the color), so their name can be translated as "of Orange". Members of the Royal Family sometimes wear orange because of this, it's a color connected to their family and the whole country, which uses orange as a national color.

What I meant was that if Eloise appears on this show as Eloise van Oranje, which of course she can use since it is her last name, it's not just her name but it also stands for the Royal Family, their whole history and for the throne.

Since it's the same word as a the color orange and Eloise is wearing an orange prison suit on this show, people are inevitably going to make jokes about it. And I just don't think that's a desirable association for the Royal Family - having their name associated with an orange prison suit that one of their own was wearing for fun on a reality show. It goes against the kind of dignity that I think all Royal Families need to preserve if they want to distinguish themselves from celebrities.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Princess_Eleanor

I think she was correcting his pronunciation of her fourth name "Laurence", which is pronounced in a French way and he pronounced in a Dutch way. I think the issue was that the way he pronounced it, it sounded like the male name Laurens instead of the female Laurence. But I don't speak Dutch fluently either, so Dutch speakers feel free to correct me!

That's exactly what happened. He pronounced her name as the male version Laurens (she was named after her grandfather Laurens Jan Brinkhorst, former minister of agriculture and economic affairs, party leader of D66, member of the European parliament etc) and she corrected him saying that it was 'Laurence' (so the female version pronounced in the French way) which they thought was posh.

The Dutch word oranje literally means orange (the color), so their name can be translated as "of Orange". Members of the Royal Family sometimes wear orange because of this, it's a color connected to their family and the whole country, which uses orange as a national color.

What I meant was that if Eloise appears on this show as Eloise van Oranje, which of course she can use since it is her last name, it's not just her name but it also stands for the Royal Family, their whole history and for the throne.

Since it's the same word as a the color orange and Eloise is wearing an orange prison suit on this show, people are inevitably going to make jokes about it. And I just don't think that's a desirable association for the Royal Family - having their name associated with an orange prison suit that one of their own was wearing for fun on a reality show. It goes against the kind of dignity that I think all Royal Families need to preserve if they want to distinguish themselves from celebrities.

Even princess Laurentien mentioned that she wore something 'orange'. She also explained that she and her family were fans of 'Stuktv' (the producer of this show) thanks to her children.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by CrownPrincessJava

This. Denmark, the Netherlands, Sweden, Belgium and a few more have stipulated that other than the Heir Apparent and their family, other children of the monarch are considered as private citizens. Thus grandchildren of the monarch are definitely considered private.

You cannot "blame" Beatrix, or any Regent for the actions of their grandchildren - especially those who are adults.

Indeed,it is entirely Their business,let them live,they´re not frumpy,at all,in fact,they are more progressive then some would like.But it is very much 2021 AD,not BC in NL.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Somebody

That's exactly what happened. He pronounced her name as the male version Laurens (she was named after her grandfather Laurens Jan Brinkhorst, former minister of agriculture and economic affairs, party leader of D66, member of the European parliament etc) and she corrected him saying that it was 'Laurence' (so the female version pronounced in the French way) which they thought was posh.

Even princess Laurentien mentioned that she wore something 'orange'. She also explained that she and her family were fans of 'Stuktv' (the producer of this show) thanks to her children.

I just came across this short article that stated that the prime minister also expressed interest in participating in Jachtseizoen. He was apparently asked in what tv-program he would want to participate if he had to choose one and he picked Jachtseizoen. The producers when asked for a response said they appreciated his application and would like to know his clothing size so they could order his orange prison suit.

So, it seems this program isn't seen as degrading by among others the prime minister.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by lucien

Indeed,it is entirely Their business,let them live,they´re not frumpy,at all,in fact,they are more progressive then some would like.But it is very much 2021 AD,not BC in NL.

Ah I see. "Progressive".


The most progressive is -of course- to end the monarchy and the nobility and re-introduce the Republic of the Netherlands. The Royal House can be "hip" and "poppy" as much as they want, their whole existence is an anomaly in a progressive society. So I would not cuddle and coo too much with the "progressives" because they will never be satisfied as long as there is an erfelijk koningschap (hereditary kingship).