Eloise, Claus-Casimir and Leonore, News and Pictures Part 1: July 2003 - 2022

[iceflower]

Countess Eloise participated in the 6th season of the popular YouTube series The Hunting Season of StukTV. During that show famous Dutch people play the role of a fugitive criminal and Eloise‘s parents were happy to help

 

[Mbruno]

Countess Eloise participated in the 6th season of the popular YouTube series The Hunting Season of StukTV. During that show famous Dutch people play the role of a fugitive criminal and Eloise‘s parents were happy to help

I wonder why she goes by the name "Eloise van Oranje" when her legal name is actually "van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg".

 

[Marengo]

It is a normal thing to do in The Netherlands for people with a long last name, not only for the RF. And the name is used by other members of the RF. Pss Mabel is often referred to as 'Mabel van Oranje' at work-related things. Another example is the actress Bracha Semeijns de Vries van Doesburgh, who is known as Bracha van Doesburgh. The former leader of the Christian Democrat party & now mayor of Leeuwarden -Sybrand van Haersma Buma- uses Sybrand Buma these days. I suppose such simplifications are not only happening in The Netherlands. The British Prime Minister's last name is De Pfeffel Johnson, but the first part is rarely used.

As for the show: words fail me too. I understand that we do not live in 1921 but that does not mean things need to sink this low. The previous generation managed to keep some degree of decorum, mostly by staying out of the publicity. Every time when you think the bottom has been reached there still seems to be a cellar under that, in which things can sink even deeper. Maybe it is time to call it a day and end the whole thing.

Noordeinde must be ok with it though, otherwise you imagine things would have been halted by now.

 

[Prinsara]

It's not. His last name is Johnson; De Pfeffel is a middle name. His first name is Alexander, but he goes by his other middle name of Boris.

Boris Johnson is sui generis, but I think it's fairly common in most countries to go by a shorter name when your legal one is excessive.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It is only on the net, not on national TV, so hm... it is limited. This is what I meant with keeping some distance, with maintaining some decorum. A gravin in an orange overall, on the run as a fugitive? Even when it is for fun, it crosses all lines.

At the same time we have seen a Princess of Orange openly saying she loves decorum, she even would not mind when people make a révérence (curtsy) and likes German boys because "they tend to have more courteoisie in them". Yesterday in Blauw Bloed, the author of the biography admitted a lot of Beatrix returns in Amalia. So there is hope...

In my opinion the surname Orange-Nassau should be reserved for Princes (Princesses) of the Netherlands.

A Bernhard van Vollenhoven or an Eloïse von Amsberg are optically as distant as Jaime de Bourbon de Parme or Juliana Guillermo. But they all are cousins to the King. With Bernhard van Oranje and Eloïse van Oranje they seem more close to the King and that purely is optical. So anything they do sticks to the Royal House because they are an "Orange".

 

[Marengo]

It's not. His last name is Johnson; De Pfeffel is a middle name. His first name is Alexander, but he goes by his other middle name of Boris.

Boris Johnson is sui generis, but I think it's fairly common in most countries to go by a shorter name when your legal one is excessive.

You are right. Apparently they use last names as christian names in the Anglo-Saxon world and not only in the US. I thought that it was only an American excentricity, but apparently not.

It is only on the net, not on national TV, so hm... it is limited. This is what I meant with keeping some distance, with maintaining some decorum. A gravin in an orange overall, on the run as a fugitive? Even when it is for fun, it crosses all lines.

Run as a fugitive, cursing non-stop it seems and all that while being helped by a member of the royal house. Milking the perks of her title/connections in ways we have not seen a member of the RF do before.

But thank god for small mercies indeed, the program will not be shown on television.

In my opinion the surname Orange-Nassau should be reserved for Princes (Princesses) of the Netherlands.

A Bernhard van Vollenhoven or an Eloïse von Amsberg are optically as distant as Jaime de Bourbon de Parme or Juliana Guillermo. But they all are cousins to the King. With Bernhard van Oranje and Eloïse van Oranje they seem more close to the King and that purely is optical. So anything they do sticks to the Royal House because they are an "Orange".

As they are the children fo a Prince of The Netherlands I have no problem with them having the ON surname. I am not sure what other one they should have. With that name & the perks that it brings, one would imagine that *some* care can be expected. But the countess has chosen to make a spetacle out of herself instead.

Let's hope that a long-standing ambition of the countess is a study abroad, so she can mature out of the public eye and without making a fool of herself and the RF.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

You are right. Apparently they use last names as christian names in the Anglo-Saxon world and not only in the US. I thought that it was only an American excentricity, but apparently not.



Run as a fugitive, cursing non-stop it seems and all that while being helped by a member of the royal house. Milking the perks of her title/connections in ways we have not seen a member of the RF do before.

But thank god for small mercies indeed, the program will not be shown on television.



As they are the children fo a Prince of The Netherlands I have no problem with them having the ON surname. I am not sure what other one they should have. With that name & the perks that it brings, one would imagine that *some* care can be expected. But the countess has chosen to make a spetacle out of herself instead.

Let's hope that a long-standing ambition of the countess is a study abroad, so she can mature out of the public eye and without making a fool of herself and the RF.

Back then was chosen for Van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg to have the descendance of both Beatrix and Claus included. But this actually clashes with the desire to have "Orange-Nassau" as limited as possible. With Van Lippe-Biesterfeld van Amsberg they actually honour both Beatrix and Claus as well:

Amalia of Orange-Nassau
Alexia of Orange-Nassau
Ariane of Orange-Nassau

Luana van Lippe-Biesterfeld van Amsberg
Zaria van Lippe-Biesterfeld van Amsberg

Eloïse van Lippe -Biesterfeld van Amsberg
Claus-Casimir van Lippe-Biesterfeld van Amsberg
Eleonore van Lippe-Biesterfeld van Amsberg

Likewise they could have used the two parents of Pieter: Stuyling de Lange van Vollenhoven or the combination of Margriet & Pieter: Van Lippe-Biesterfeld van Vollenhoven.

Maurits Stuyling de Lange van Vollenhoven
Bernhard Stuyling de Lange van Vollenhoven
Pieter-Christiaan Stuyling de Lange van Vollenhoven
Floris Stuyling de Lange van Vollenhoven

And as people use to name someone in a short version, it soon would become Eloïse van Amsberg or Bernhard van Vollenhoven.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Please see this post for my responses to the comments on royal surnames:

Titles of the Dutch Royals

It's not. His last name is Johnson; De Pfeffel is a middle name. His first name is Alexander, but he goes by his other middle name of Boris.

Boris Johnson is sui generis, but I think it's fairly common in most countries to go by a shorter name when your legal one is excessive.

You are right. Apparently they use last names as christian names in the Anglo-Saxon world and not only in the US. I thought that it was only an American excentricity, but apparently not.

In Britain and America, the term "middle name" is used to mean any name that does not go first or last out of all of the individual's legal names, and a middle name may be a Christian/personal name (e.g., Boris) or a family name/surname (e.g., van Oranje). (This differs from the term "middle name" in Scandinavian cultures, where it is strictly used to mean a family name or name analogous to a family name, such as a patronymic.)

It would sound quite unusual to use De Pfeffel as a Christian name, so I would instead assume it is being used as a family name. However, the Anglo-Saxon naming convention is to use only the first and last of the legal names as the short version, provided that the names are not hyphenated (as hyphenated names are often treated as a single name). In the UK it would be usual that Alexander Boris De Pfeffel Johnson would use Alexander Johnson and Eloise Sophie Beatrix Laurence van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg would use Eloise van Amsberg.

In the Netherlands and Belgium, on the other hand, it is more usual to use the first of the personal names and the first of the family names, which for the legal names above would be Alexander De Pfeffel or Eloise van Oranje.

 

[Marengo]

I am not sure if there is any logic as to how to shorten last names in the Netherlands. As you can see from the two other Dutch examples above, they preferred to use the last part of the last name. 'Semeijns de Vries van Doesburgh' becomes 'van Doesburgh' while 'van Haersma Buma' becomes 'Buma'. On the other hand, former minister of traffic Melanie Henriëtte Schultz van Haegen-Maas Geesteranus is usually referred to as Melanie Schultz. The Belgian television host and noblewoman Marlène de Wouters d'Oplinter goes by Marlène de Wouters.

The only logic I remember is that people tend to prefer using the original name of the dynasty (geslacht) over the name of a lordship, IF their last name is a combination of the two. The lordship usually comes in the second part of a last name and the name of the dynasty comes first but not always.

 

[Prinsara]

Please see this post for my responses to the comments on royal surnames:

Titles of the Dutch Royals

In Britain and America, the term "middle name" is used to mean any name that does not go first or last out of all of the individual's legal names, and a middle name may be a Christian/personal name (e.g., Boris) or a family name/surname (e.g., van Oranje). (This differs from the term "middle name" in Scandinavian cultures, where it is strictly used to mean a family name or name analogous to a family name, such as a patronymic.)

It would sound quite unusual to use De Pfeffel as a Christian name, so I would instead assume it is being used as a family name. However, the Anglo-Saxon naming convention is to use only the first and last of the legal names as the short version, provided that the names are not hyphenated (as hyphenated names are often treated as a single name). In the UK it would be usual that Alexander Boris De Pfeffel Johnson would use Alexander Johnson and Eloise Sophie Beatrix Laurence van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg would use Eloise van Amsberg.

In the Netherlands and Belgium, on the other hand, it is more usual to use the first of the personal names and the first of the family names, which for the legal names above would be Alexander De Pfeffel or Eloise van Oranje.

It's not really correct to call personal/first/middle names "Christian" names, considering all non-Christian people have them. Moreover, there is no distinction between family and personal names in middle names; married women have often given their birth names to their children as middle names, and unlike other countries, there's no legal standing. It's just a middle name. Smith is just as equally a middle name as Samantha.

However, many a (usually) man in the US, UK, and elsewhere has ended up using a middle name as a first one or even a mononym. Like "Halston". Or many British or Canadian politicians. Or where do you think we've gotten "Taylor" from? https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MiddleNameBasis

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

We do not know middle names but more given names and surname

Given names:
Eloïse Sophie Beatrix Laurence

Name:
Eloïse

Surname:
van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg

Title:
gravin van Oranje-Nassau

Predicate:
jonkvrouw van Amsberg

Form of Address:
Hooggeboren Vrouwe (Highborn Lady)

 

[Princess_Eleanor]

I wanted to watch a little bit of the "Jachtseizoen" show with Eloise and ended up watching it all, because it was actually very funny!!

But I agree that this is not an appropriate thing for someone in her position to do. The inevitable word play on the name Oranje and the orange prison suit alone... surely not a desirable image for the Royal Family!

Though I think all of this could easily be solved if her parents told Eloise not to participate in shows like this. But since they appeared on the show themselves - most notably her mother, who helped her "flee" by driving her around The Hague - I think we can safely preclude that they didn't tell her not to participate.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The only logic I remember is that people tend to prefer using the original name of the dynasty (geslacht) over the name of a lordship, IF their last name is a combination of the two. The lordship usually comes in the second part of a last name and the name of the dynasty comes first but not always.

Interesting, that seems logical.

In Belgium where it has become possible (although rare) to assign a double name (paternal and maternal) to children, it has become usual in those cases for the father's surname to come first.

It's not really correct to call personal/first/middle names "Christian" names, considering all non-Christian people have them.

Moreover, there is no distinction between family and personal names in middle names; married women have often given their birth names to their children as middle names, and unlike other countries, there's no legal standing. It's just a middle name. Smith is just as equally a middle name as Samantha.

Yes, both points were made in the post you quoted.

We do not know middle names but more given names and surname

Given names:
Eloïse Sophie Beatrix Laurence

Name:
Eloïse

Surname:
van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg

Title:
gravin van Oranje-Nassau

Predicate:
jonkvrouw van Amsberg

Form of Address:
Hooggeboren Vrouwe (Highborn Lady)

From the legal point of view "gravin" is the title and "jonkvrouw" is the predicate; the surname "van Oranje-Nassau" and "van Amsberg" are not part of the title/predicate but must be transmitted together with it.

 

[Alisa]

But I agree that this is not an appropriate thing for someone in her position to do. The inevitable word play on the name Oranje and the orange prison suit alone... surely not a desirable image for the Royal Family!



Though I think all of this could easily be solved if her parents told Eloise not to participate in shows like this. But since they appeared on the show themselves - most notably her mother, who helped her "flee" by driving her around The Hague - I think we can safely preclude that they didn't tell her not to participate.

For me, Eloise can do whatever she pleases as she is a private citizen- although she is only able to do all this because of the fact that she is the King's niece.
My issue is when the parents get involved. 'Tijn and Laurentien are high profile royals and lead very public lives- they shouldn't be involved in TikTok videos and TV shows .

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I long for a Beatrix, an Elizabeth, a Margrethe, all embodying a total different idea of how a royal lady should be. But at the same time under Elizabeth we have a grandchild Harry sidestepping to celebbie life, under Margrethe we have a grandchild Nicolaï sidestepping to the catwalk and under Beatrix we have a grandchild Eloïse inventing herself as gravinfluencer.

Maybe it is just unavoidable. It happens in three Royal Houses which have (had) perfect Queens. And under said Queens it "derailed", so to say. After all, nons of these three ladies have their grandchildren on a leash...

 

[Biri]

And one more thing - these grandchildren you mentioned will never be reigning monarchs.

 

[Somebody]

I long for a Beatrix, an Elizabeth, a Margrethe, all embodying a total different idea of how a royal lady should be. But at the same time under Elizabeth we have a grandchild Harry sidestepping to celebbie life, under Margrethe we have a grandchild Nicolaï sidestepping to the catwalk and under Beatrix we have a grandchild Eloïse inventing herself as gravinfluencer.

Maybe it is just unavoidable. It happens in three Royal Houses which have (had) perfect Queens. And under said Queens it "derailed", so to say. After all, nons of these three ladies have their grandchildren on a leash...

Not sure how you can 'blame' Beatrix for something that happened during her son's reign. Eloise was only 10 when she abdicated.

 

[CrownPrincessJava]

And one more thing - these grandchildren you mentioned will never be reigning monarchs.

This. Denmark, the Netherlands, Sweden, Belgium and a few more have stipulated that other than the Heir Apparent and their family, other children of the monarch are considered as private citizens. Thus grandchildren of the monarch are definitely considered private.

You cannot "blame" Beatrix, or any Regent for the actions of their grandchildren - especially those who are adults.

 

[Princess_Eleanor]

For me, Eloise can do whatever she pleases as she is a private citizen- although she is only able to do all this because of the fact that she is the King's niece.
My issue is when the parents get involved. 'Tijn and Laurentien are high profile royals and lead very public lives- they shouldn't be involved in TikTok videos and TV shows .

She's a private citizen, but as long as she is a Countess of Oranje-Nassau and 5th in line to the throne, I think one should be able to expect some decorum.

That's part of it, she is only invited on all these shows or to be on the cover of a magazine because she is a Countess of Oranje-Nassau, the King's niece and the former Queen's granddaughter. So if you get all these opportunities and invitations because of your close family connection to the throne, then yes, I think you should also consider how it will all reflect on the throne.

I'm not even saying can't be an Instagram "influencer" next to being a student, but if she just had more boundaries on what to do and what not to do...

I don't even know why her parents were involved in this - it baffles me a lot more than the fact that Eloise appeared on the "hunting season" show! They made her delete the TikTok video and in my opinion this was worse than the TikTok video... Though Eloise did delete the video and seems close to her parents, so I believe that if they told her not to appear on certain shows, she probably wouldn't.

I imagine Constantijn knew it wasn't appropriate for him to drive Eloise around on this show, but in reality, no, it wasn't appropriate for Laurentien either. What is she doing as a Princess and member of the Royal House driving a "getaway car" on a comedy reality show??

 

[kalnel]

But I agree that this is not an appropriate thing for someone in her position to do. The inevitable word play on the name Oranje and the orange prison suit alone... surely not a desirable image for the Royal Family!.

I watched part of the show, but I don't speak Dutch, so a lot was lost on me. When Eloise was being introduced, the guy interviewing her pronounced her name like "van Oran-yee" (or something like that), but it sounded like she was correcting him by saying something more like the English word "orange." Was she correcting his pronunciation or making a reference to "orange" something?

 

[Princess_Eleanor]

I watched part of the show, but I don't speak Dutch, so a lot was lost on me. When Eloise was being introduced, the guy interviewing her pronounced her name like "van Oran-yee" (or something like that), but it sounded like she was correcting him by saying something more like the English word "orange." Was she correcting his pronunciation or making a reference to "orange" something?

I think she was correcting his pronunciation of her fourth name "Laurence", which is pronounced in a French way and he pronounced in a Dutch way. I think the issue was that the way he pronounced it, it sounded like the male name Laurens instead of the female Laurence. But I don't speak Dutch fluently either, so Dutch speakers feel free to correct me!

The Dutch word oranje literally means orange (the color), so their name can be translated as "of Orange". Members of the Royal Family sometimes wear orange because of this, it's a color connected to their family and the whole country, which uses orange as a national color.

What I meant was that if Eloise appears on this show as Eloise van Oranje, which of course she can use since it is her last name, it's not just her name but it also stands for the Royal Family, their whole history and for the throne.

Since it's the same word as a the color orange and Eloise is wearing an orange prison suit on this show, people are inevitably going to make jokes about it. And I just don't think that's a desirable association for the Royal Family - having their name associated with an orange prison suit that one of their own was wearing for fun on a reality show. It goes against the kind of dignity that I think all Royal Families need to preserve if they want to distinguish themselves from celebrities.

 

[Somebody]

I think she was correcting his pronunciation of her fourth name "Laurence", which is pronounced in a French way and he pronounced in a Dutch way. I think the issue was that the way he pronounced it, it sounded like the male name Laurens instead of the female Laurence. But I don't speak Dutch fluently either, so Dutch speakers feel free to correct me!

That's exactly what happened. He pronounced her name as the male version Laurens (she was named after her grandfather Laurens Jan Brinkhorst, former minister of agriculture and economic affairs, party leader of D66, member of the European parliament etc) and she corrected him saying that it was 'Laurence' (so the female version pronounced in the French way) which they thought was posh.

The Dutch word oranje literally means orange (the color), so their name can be translated as "of Orange". Members of the Royal Family sometimes wear orange because of this, it's a color connected to their family and the whole country, which uses orange as a national color.

What I meant was that if Eloise appears on this show as Eloise van Oranje, which of course she can use since it is her last name, it's not just her name but it also stands for the Royal Family, their whole history and for the throne.

Since it's the same word as a the color orange and Eloise is wearing an orange prison suit on this show, people are inevitably going to make jokes about it. And I just don't think that's a desirable association for the Royal Family - having their name associated with an orange prison suit that one of their own was wearing for fun on a reality show. It goes against the kind of dignity that I think all Royal Families need to preserve if they want to distinguish themselves from celebrities.

Even princess Laurentien mentioned that she wore something 'orange'. She also explained that she and her family were fans of 'Stuktv' (the producer of this show) thanks to her children.

 

[lucien]

This. Denmark, the Netherlands, Sweden, Belgium and a few more have stipulated that other than the Heir Apparent and their family, other children of the monarch are considered as private citizens. Thus grandchildren of the monarch are definitely considered private.

You cannot "blame" Beatrix, or any Regent for the actions of their grandchildren - especially those who are adults.

Indeed,it is entirely Their business,let them live,they´re not frumpy,at all,in fact,they are more progressive then some would like.But it is very much 2021 AD,not BC in NL.

 

[Somebody]

That's exactly what happened. He pronounced her name as the male version Laurens (she was named after her grandfather Laurens Jan Brinkhorst, former minister of agriculture and economic affairs, party leader of D66, member of the European parliament etc) and she corrected him saying that it was 'Laurence' (so the female version pronounced in the French way) which they thought was posh.

Even princess Laurentien mentioned that she wore something 'orange'. She also explained that she and her family were fans of 'Stuktv' (the producer of this show) thanks to her children.

I just came across this short article that stated that the prime minister also expressed interest in participating in Jachtseizoen. He was apparently asked in what tv-program he would want to participate if he had to choose one and he picked Jachtseizoen. The producers when asked for a response said they appreciated his application and would like to know his clothing size so they could order his orange prison suit.

So, it seems this program isn't seen as degrading by among others the prime minister.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Indeed,it is entirely Their business,let them live,they´re not frumpy,at all,in fact,they are more progressive then some would like.But it is very much 2021 AD,not BC in NL.

Ah I see. "Progressive".


The most progressive is -of course- to end the monarchy and the nobility and re-introduce the Republic of the Netherlands. The Royal House can be "hip" and "poppy" as much as they want, their whole existence is an anomaly in a progressive society. So I would not cuddle and coo too much with the "progressives" because they will never be satisfied as long as there is an erfelijk koningschap (hereditary kingship).

 

[iceflower]

Countess Eloise attended the NPO Zapp Awards in Hilversum yesterday, February 12, and presented an award to a boy band:


** rex gallery ** libelle.nl article: Eloise van Oranje schittert op rode loper in opvallende jurk **


** bd.nl article: Het Sinterklaasjournaal wint Zapp Award voor beste jeugdprogramma **

 

[eya]

"Countess Eloise is pregnant. At least writes @DitjesDatjesMag.

Eloise's reaction on Instagram."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1502317816216752132

 

[Marengo]

I guess that is a no .

 

[Blog Real]

"Countess Eloise is pregnant. At least writes @DitjesDatjesMag.

Eloise's reaction on Instagram."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1502317816216752132

I think this news is not true. And Eloise's reaction seems to be to deny the news.

 

[Somebody]

Must be really weird to read... I like her response.