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Old 07-29-2006, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Alexandria
I don't think it's as easy as this to incite change. The Chrysanthemum throne is embedded in hundreds of years, centuries even, of history and protocol. And even though it's 2006 such history and protocol can't be turned upside down (as in their eyes allowing Aiko to be heiress would mean) in just a few years, no matter what kind of emotional or psychological toll had been experienced by Michiko and Masako.

I always think of Sarah Ferguson on various talk shows after her divorce when she would talk about the "Grey Men" of the British royal court and how they watched your every move and had to approve anything and everything you did. If the British royal court, which is considerably more progressive in comparison to the Japanese court, had such a hard time with allowing Diana and Fergie some freedom and making them some allowances, then I can imagine how practically impossible it would be for any concessions to be made for Masako and for Aiko to be Empress one day by her own merits of being her father's first born.

I do think that the members of the Imperial family care about Masako and her ill-health, but at the same time I think they realize that the system is bigger than them and that there isn't much they can do for her. Her husband tried and I think that speaks volumes about the kind of man he is and how he's been willing to challenge the court much to the dismay of his father, but little (if any) change occured as a result of Naruhito's comments.

I admit that I don't know much about the imperial court and I hope that someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I suspect that Akihito does not have as much influence as some of his other counterparts in the running of his court or his duties. Margrethe of Denmark and Beatrix of the Netherlands for example are two monarchs whom I think have some influence in their courts that if they said that their daughter-in-laws should not be subjected to something, they wouldn't be. Beatrix for example was able to secure parking passes for her van Vollenhoven nephews, which is apparently very rare in Holland since parking spaces is so limited.

And on numerous occasions British prime ministers through the years have commented on how much they look up to Queen Elizabeth and how they seek out her advice because she's seen so much history and she knows the history of the country so well. I don't hear that often of Akihito. Even in Spain, despite the trepadations of the monarchy and auspicious start of Juan Carlos' reign, he is greatly admired and has a significant presence in his country that I don't sense from Akihito. And even in Spain, laws to change succession rights that would allow Leonor to become queen rather than a younger brother, have been slow to happen. Politicians on all fronts agree that allowing a younger brother to succeed Leonor is an archaic law but change has been slow to happen as it happens on multiple levels of governments and governments of course have their own agenda that they want to push through and Leonor being Queen isn't necessarily a priority for them. I imagine that in Japan this is a similar story.
You made some interesting points - the Royal Families lives (JAPAN) is it seems to me particularly restricted. I think that the IHA don't want reform & sadly they're are happy with the way things are. I wish that Pkiko gives birth to a healthy baby - no matter what the sex.

When you wish upon a star...
Old 07-29-2006, 11:57 PM
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I read here that if the baby is a boy, he could suffer from an hereditary disease...Which disease are you speaking about? I miss something in all this discussion?


Old 07-30-2006, 08:38 PM
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I don't feel that it's going to be a boy...Wouldn't they have announced it to the whole world by now if it was a boy?
It's sad that the princess is trying to have a baby at her age...Is it some kind of a competition??
Old 07-31-2006, 04:16 AM
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of course there is competition or should i say pressure for a male heir, remember a 2000-year-old monarchy is at stake here and without the male heir there would be major conflict over what should happen next
Old 07-31-2006, 04:17 PM
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Having just read a book about the Empress Elisabeth of Austria ("Sissi") and the fight between her and her dominant mother-in-law about the supervisation of the education of the Royal children I came to think about Kiko, Masako and the IHA... Here are my thoughts (mere speculation, of course - and I have to confess that I know next to nothing about the Japanese way of thinking - but as it happened in European Austria...)

If aiko in fact became the heir apparent of her father and thus the second-in-line after the Crown prince: would "mentally ill" Masako be allowed to be responsible for the upbringing of the heiress? Or would the emperor take the child away from her? Could this be the threat that

a) brought prince Akishino and his wife Kiko to the acceptance of a try to get a boy as heir? In order to help Naruhito and Masako against the IHA (which, as could be read in another thread, is "reigned" by the Prime Minister and the emperor via the IH council?). With Akishino as the father of a boy everything could stay as it is. Or Naruhito has a chance to gracefully give up his rights in favour of his brother and "keep his face" while giving his personal happiness a chance.

b) made prince Naruhito think about an exile in the Netherlands in order to save his family in case the child turns out to be a girl?After all, the Dutch are the people who have (due to their history with Japan) together with the British the most knowledge about Japanese traditions and customs. The prince of Orange is the father of two daughters himself, so understands Naruhito's situation. The idea of abdication is pretty normal in the Dutch RF. The father of Masako had any opportunity to request a private interview with the prince or the queen in Den Haag and broach the subject then privately.
Who would dare doing anything against the daughter of a judge at the International Court of Justice in Den Haag, when it comes to human rights? They can feel quite safe in the Netherlands - a country with a long history of taking in noble refugees.

Just an idea....
Old 08-01-2006, 10:55 AM
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The princess Kiko has participated in ceremony called "Chakutai no Gi" in order to "assure" safe birth of her child.
Old 08-01-2006, 03:59 PM
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Pregnant Princess Kiko of Japan took part in a traditional ceremony on Tuesday to pray for the safe delivery of her unborn child.

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Old 08-02-2006, 01:15 AM
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I hope so, too. I wonder if the IHA is a bit worried and "remorseful" of what mother and child are in danger of..... assuming, it was a "programmed pregnancy" by the IHA, of course.

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Old 08-02-2006, 08:50 AM
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I hope she has a safe delivery and the child is well.
Old 08-02-2006, 03:38 PM
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I hope Naruhito doesn´t abdicate and that during his reign policy will change. What would happen then? - if Kiko has a son and its named the heir can it be reversed at a later stage if the IHA decided females could also ascend?
Nonetheless, I hope everything goes well for Kiko - both for the birth and the future.
Old 08-02-2006, 09:10 PM
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I think if Kiko has a boy - the IHA as well as the govt will never change the ruling to allow a female to ascend the throne.

For a country that is so modern, i'm very disappointed that they still regard women as second class.
Old 08-02-2006, 10:01 PM
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My only concern , at least by now, is about Princess Kiko's health. Hope she will no pass through medical treatments that could be dangerous for her or/and the baby (whatever her/his sex will be). If the IHA pushed her to get pregnant with the only design of having a baby boy, shame on them: they could kill the Princess and the little new life she has inside. If not, I don't think we must blame her. My great-great grandma wanted to be pregnant when she was 50 (she could be a mother) and, in despite her other children complaints (she had already nine), she wanted to have one more son or daughter, for she loved little babies. And she gave birth without any problem to a healthy little girl named Helena. If Princess Kiko is experiencing problems with her pregnancy, its not her fault.

All this depends (of course), if she wanted to have this baby, or the IHA obliged her to get pregnant. This last possibility would be highly blamable.

I also hope that the Crown Prince would not abdicate to his dignity, just to pass it to his brother. It's ridicoulous.

However, I'm a little amazed of the feminist fundamentalism I see everywhere (and I'm a woman, adding to this fact that I am with woman rights). People is praying about the baby being a girl, just for Japan would change its laws and become a "modern nation". And the IHA is wanting that the baby would be a boy just to not change the succesion laws. ...Please, people! We are speaking about a woman, whose life could be in danger, a baby whose life could be in danger too. Let Princess Kiko having her baby in peace and we'll discuss the succesion laws later, when the baby and she will be out of danger and all right.

These world is made by men and women. No sex is better than the other. Collaboration, love and friendship between them must be our politic.

So: hope Princess Kiko and her newborn would be O.K. After this, JAPANESE PEOPLE, not us, must decide what to do with succesory laws.

Old 08-03-2006, 01:55 AM
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After reading this thread for updates for so long, I have finally joined to post.

I can honestly see a huge list of pros and cons for the baby turning out to a girl as well as a boy. I just hope that both the baby and Princess Kiko stay healthy and safe.
Old 08-03-2006, 12:45 PM
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Thumbs up

I think the only thing that matters is that the baby comes in to the world healthy and loved by everyone in his or her family!!
Old 08-03-2006, 06:01 PM
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I'm sure the baby will be loved no matter the gender but I can already see the grief this baby is going to go through by being born Prince/Princess of this Imperial family. If the baby is a girl then it's going to get some major resentment from the IHA and Kiko most likely will be looked upon unfavorably. If the baby is a boy then his life will be under IHA control guaranteed.
Old 08-03-2006, 09:24 PM
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I agree with SiberiaWinxs, Dutch Royal and SoCal Girl...And I hope the baby (and also Princess Aiko, Kako and Mako) could live their childhood in peace, without any external control , other than their family one.

Old 08-04-2006, 09:19 AM
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I pray the baby is safe. I also hope that even if it is a boy that the law will be changed for equal succession rights. Not to make japan a modern monarchy but to show respect and equality to masako, aiko and all other women who are judged as of less importance than their male peers.

Will we be alerted to when the birth is taking place? Will there be a thread as we wait for news in a similar way there was a thread while awaiting the births of Ingrid Alexandra and Amalia? Im going on holiday and im afraid it will all occur while im away
Old 08-04-2006, 01:15 PM
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If the baby is a boy:

-CP Masako might be treated even worse.
-The law might never be changed to allow females a chance to succeed.
-The daughters of the family might feel like they were not good enough.
-The pressure on the newborn will be enourmous, plus he would be under constant watch to assure his safety.

-Pressure might be lifted off CP Masako now that an heir has been born.
-The family daughters will be spared the structured life of an emporer, but will be forced to give up their home/titles if they marry out of royalty.
-The IHA might finally leave everyone alone.

If the baby is a girl:

-The IHA might go to extreme messures to get a male heir
-The pressure/treatment on CP Masako, and now Princess Kiko as well, will get even worse.
-The baby might be looked down upon by the folks hoping for a boy.

-The law might get changed, allowing females to succeed.
-Women might finally start being treated as equals.
-Princesses might gain the right to marry commoners without having to give up their title.
Old 08-04-2006, 11:19 PM
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i agree with the pros and cons. what the IHA doesn't realise is that these are human lives they are messing with. anyway at this rate if the laws dont change, the imperial family might be wiped out altogether in the near future.
Old 08-05-2006, 01:10 AM
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Well both Kiko and her Husband are pretty high up there age wise and the older you are the better chances that they will have a girl. The IHA freaks me out and I dont know what lenghts they will go to which scares me.

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