Prince Joachim of Belgium - News and Pictures, Part 1

[Marengo]

Our Royals will decide what to do . Princess Astrid and Prince Lorenz must be devasted, how stupid attending a Party of more than 20 persons during Covid !

Isn't Princess Astrid supposed to re-open the Atomium on Monday? If the prince had Corona while he was in Belgium with his parents I hope the princess will at least be tested before she goes out in public. I wouldn't be surprised if her attendance would be cancelled out of precaution and to save her the ebarrassement.

Anyway, let's hope the prince and the other infected people will have a speedy recovery and will not infect anybody else.

 

[lula]

The Spanish police are investigating, and since yesterday the rumors indicated that it was Prince Joachim.

Europe's borders remain closed, and people can only travel between countries for certain reasons. In Spain, movement between regions is prohibited, if it is not for work or extreme family need (death, care of children and the elderly). No Spaniard can travel from Madrid to Córdoba if it is not for justified reasons.

Then they have broken the meeting rules, because only 15 people are allowed to meet and 27 people have met at the party. Other than partygoers who have already been located, they will probably also have to locate the people who traveled with him on the plane and train.

So the police is investigating, because numerous rules have been broken. The meeting was not legal so those responsible of the party will probably have to pay fines. And the prince will have to explain how he justified his trip (some Spanish media talk about the possibility that he used a diplomatic passport), and he has not quarantined.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Isn’t the 14 day rule still applicable in Belgium? If someone you’ve been in close contact, for a consistent period of time, has tested positive you should isolate for 14 days.

Whoever has come into contact with Joachim should isolate.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I wouldn't be surprised if her attendance would be cancelled out of precaution and to save her the ebarrassement.

It is difficult for me to imagine Princess Astrid acting in the same manner. As Prince Joachim is an adult, his parents are not necessarily responsible.

Is this becoming headline news in Belgium? I was under the impression that the average Belgian would not recognize Prince Joachim in the street, but it is interesting that the Royal Palace has been responsive in their communications given that the story was initially reported without naming the prince.

 

[Marengo]

Isn’t the 14 day rule still applicable in Belgium? If someone you’ve been in close contact, for a consistent period of time, has tested positive you should isolate for 14 days.

I just checked the official website and you are right, that is the official guideline. That means that she will have to cnacel her attendance at the Atomium, which is almost next to her house btw.

Is this becoming headline news in Belgium? I was under the impression that the average Belgian would not recognize Prince Joachim in the street, but it is interesting that the Royal Palace has been responsive in their communications given that the story was initially reported without naming the prince.

It is a headline for now, let's see if it still is one this evening. We have seen quite a few stories of officials ignoring Corona-rules in Flanders. Some stories seem a slap stick comedy with people hiding in cupboards etc. Two professors were arrested while they got drunk while live streaming a lecture to their students. This story seems less bizar at least and the average Belgian will not be overly interested in the children of Pss Astrid.

The palace must have been approached by journalists about the matter and probably knew the story would eventually leak anyway. When I read the story in El Pais to yesterday evening I immediately thought of Prince Joachim. I am sure other royalty-watchers and royalty-journalists must have had the same thought. And as lula stated, it was already rumored in Spain. The palace was right to get ahead of the story.

 

[Somebody]

The palace must have been approached by journalists about the matter and probably knew the story would eventually leak anyway. When I read the story in El Pais to yesterday evening I immediately thought of Prince Joachim. I am sure other royalty-watchers and royalty-journalists must have had the same thought. And as lula stated, it was already rumored in Spain. The palace was right to get ahead of the story.

It's interesting that El País only talked about 'a Belgian aristocrat'. It further explains that is was a family reunion to celebrate the arrival of one of the boyfriend of one of the family members.

According El País, the 14 days quarantine rule only applies to tourists, so if Joachim entered Spain for other reasons (work? I thought they lived and worked in South Africa - I guess Victoria's family was able to come up with an 'internship', so he would have a reason to travel - other than visiting his girlfriend), this rule apparently would not apply. Diario Córdoba does not make that distinction in their reporting and states that anyone traveling from abroad needs to self-quarantine for 14 days.

I fully understand that Joachim and Victoria wanted to be together after spending most likely months apart from each other; although they should have waited if it was against the rules for him to travel to Spain (but having a diplomatic passport does wonders). Nonetheless, even if it was legal to travel - it was very unwise (and if all at the same time not allowed) to already meet with that many people 2 days after arrival.

I wonder where he picked it up: during his travels on Sunday would be a reasonable possibility.

Diario Córdoba adds that 5 people at the welcome party were from Sevilla and at first they had not been able to contact them (but later on the Distrito Sanitario de Sevilla was able to track them down).

So, it seems that on Sunday Joachim flew to Madrid and took the AVE to Córdoba.
On Tuesday they had a welcome party with (mostly?) family members at Victoria's parents' house in Córdoba attended by 27 people.
On Wednesday Joachim started to develop symptoms
On Friday (or Thursday - reports vary) he was tested for Covid-19 and found positive (on Friday); that same day they tracked down the 27 people and all of them were put in quarantine.
Also on Friday: they started their investigation into whether any prosecutable offense took place (the fine could be between 600 to 10.000 Euros).

 

[Somebody]

For those wondering about Joachim working in South Africa; it was reported in 2018 based on this Zoominfo-page.

 

[lula]

If he traveled on Sunday, and already had symptoms on Wednesday ... that means that he already left Belgium infected.

I believe that the Belgian court or press are trying to minimize the issue, due to the consequences that the case may have.

About the meeting and the number of people, are data provided by the Andalusian Ministry of Health to the government subdelegation so that the police proceed to investigate it. Now the police will have to investigate three things:

- Who was the organizer of the meeting and how many people attended. If the legal number is exceeded, the organizer will be fined.

- If 5 of the guests who were from Sevilla failed to comply with the rules on travel between provinces, and in their case they will also be fined.

- They will investigate what are the reasons why Joachim made his trip and if they are legal or not.

 

[carlota]

how very embarrasing. not just for joachim, but also for the officials who deemed it appropriate to give him a travel permit for something non essential - it basically highlights that there is one rule for some, another rule for others.

this article mentions more:

https://www.elmundo.es/loc/casa-real/2020/05/30/5ed25b41fdddff8f198b45d3.html

joachim works as a financial analyst. he resided in Andalusia for many years, to be close to his girlfriend, Victoria Ortiz
he traveled to Córdoba on monday to participate in a private party, together with friends and family of his girlfriend, who wanted to give him the welcome. then, the quarantine decreed by the Government of Spain was skipped, even under the state of alarm.
he has been going out with Victoria Ortiz for years, She belongs to a well-known family of entrepreneurs in the Andalusian agro-industrial sector. They have travelled together last year to Botswana.

 

[maria-olivia]

Such of Weddings in Belgium has been cancelled et a lot of oney loss.
Easy , a Belgian Aristrocrat...
To me he had already Covid in Belgium
I hope Princess Astrid will not re-open the Atomium, the most confined place in Belgium!

 

[Alisa]

One word comes to mine- Idiot!

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

Very irresponsible of Joachim and it enforces the "one rule for them, one rule for us" opinion that many people here in Britain have been feeling when it comes to government officials flouting lockdown - I can only imagine that Belgian people are feeling similar sentiments. I hope this has taught him a lesson.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

What a foolish young man! He is paying the price, but I hope that no one will eventually pay with their lives because of this type of silly and entitled behavior.

And I also hope Joachim's parents and his uncle the king will read him the riot act.

 

[Somebody]

What a foolish young man! He is paying the price, but I hope that no one will eventually pay with their lives because of this type of silly and entitled behavior.

And I also hope Joachim's parents and his uncle the king will read him the riot act.

I'm pretty sure the king will - with his sense of duty, this must come as a very unpleasant surprise. I assume his parents were aware of this plan; as it seems he may have stayed with them for the last few months.

 

[MsJulie]

There is talk about fines being levied on the people that went to the parties as they broke the law. If so, I hope PJ is fined and treated as a regular person, not someone special.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52864072

 

[Blog Real]

A spokesman for the family of Victoria Ortiz, the young Cordoba couple of Prince Joachim of Belgium infected with Covid-19, has expressed his vision of the events that have ended with almost thirty confined by fear of contagion.

The family says that at no time were the limits of family reunions exceeded and that there was no mass party. This spokesman is treated, for a snack held last Monday on a farm on the outskirts of Cordoba attended by 12 people and another similar meeting held the following day in a house in the capital, in which 15 people participated. In both cases the prince was present, according to the aforementioned spokesman.

This family member assures ABC that "the prince has a work permit for his company" and that "there has been absolutely no fault of the rules" of confinement. Currently, Belgium also has restrictions on catching planes outside the country. In cases of work activity, travel is considered allowed. Some Belgian media claim that the prince was doing an internship in Spain.

https://sevilla.abc.es/andalucia/co...as-12-y-15-personas-202005302128_noticia.html

ABC also did an article about Victoria Ortiz.
Family sources near Victoria have confirmed to ABC that "at the moment there is a courtship but no wedding plans".
https://sevilla.abc.es/andalucia/co...rdoba&vli=noticia.foto.andalucia&vtm_loMas=si

The Board's epidemiological surveillance teams now closely monitor the stay of Prince Joachim of Belgium and the persons who may have been infected in the episode of the private holiday with the aim of extending confinement precautions to anyone who had close contact with the nephew of the King of Belgium.

https://sevilla.abc.es/andalucia/co...rdoba&vli=noticia.foto.andalucia&vtm_loMas=si

 

[maria-olivia]

Nothing in the News to day certainly . The Royal Palace said they are not involved , this is private.
Astrid and Lorenz are protected Members of the Royal Family.
The Prince asked Pieter De Crem to allow him to go to Spain for his business.
Which kind of Plane ?
But he went to a party in Cortoba. This Family is protected to. It is said Prince Joachim met 27 persons in Spain.
We are very angry about this idiot situation ! We saw on TV a very angry Spanish Women talking about that . The true will come from Spain and not from Belgium !

 

[Mbruno]

Did Prince Joachim have contact with any other member of the Belgium royal family while he was infectious ? Has the Palace commented on any other Belgian royal being tested ?

 

[Alison H]

This is all over the BBC website. I don't know why. Prince Joachim, with all due respect to him, is not a very well-known figure in the UK. But anything involving royals hits the news. It was a very silly and irresponsible thing to do. Most of the lockdown rules breach fines here have been issued to young men, of all different social backgrounds.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Joachim has released a statement:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1267168648847855625

“I apologize for not respecting all quarantine measures during my trip. In these difficult times I did not want to offend anyone. I deeply regret my actions and will accept the consequences. Joachim from Belgium ”

 

[Mbruno]

Joachim has released a statement:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1267168648847855625

“I apologize for not respecting all quarantine measures during my trip. In these difficult times I did not want to offend anyone. I deeply regret my actions and will accept the consequences. Joachim from Belgium ”

Interesting that he signed "Joachim van België". It looks like speculation about princes of Belgium starting to use family names followng King Philippe's 2015 royal decree was indeed premature.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Thank you to Marengo, lula, Somebody, carlota, Blog Real, and all others who have been summarizing the numerous reports from Belgium and Spain.


It is somewhat confusing that the prince acknowledges not respecting all quarantine measures while Ms. Ortiz's family denies that any regulations were broken. Are the two parties addressing different sets of rules?

I'm pretty sure the king will - with his sense of duty, this must come as a very unpleasant surprise. I assume his parents were aware of this plan; as it seems he may have stayed with them for the last few months.

I agree that his parents were surely aware of their son's travel to Spain, but I am not sure about the inference that they were aware of the reunion party/parties held by his girlfriend's family.

Given their own sense of duty and years of dutiful representation on behalf of the monarchy, it would come as a surprise to me if Princess Astrid and Prince Lorenz condoned ignoring quarantine rules, or the spirit of the rules. The family is clearly close, but it is surely at least a possibility that the prince may have chosen to reunite with his partner even if his parents counselled against it.

Interesting that he signed "Joachim van België". It looks like speculation about princes of Belgium starting to use family names followng King Philippe's 2015 royal decree was indeed premature.

Actually, the palace made it fairly clear when explaining the royal decree in 2015 that the princes and princesses of Belgium would continue to use "of Belgium" as their de facto family name.

The point of the decree (as explained in the decree itself) was to settle the legal interpretation of the family name in order to withhold "of Belgium" from Prince Amedeo's then unborn child.

 

[Blog Real]

I think Princess Astrid and Prince Lorenzo knew about their son's trip, but they probably didn't know about the party.
But I think Prince Joachim and his parents never thought this trip was going to cause so much trouble because it was a private trip.
Only it wasn't in the plans for him to find out he was infected with Covid-19 and it was made public at the same time that it was known that he had been at a party with 15 or 20 people.
At least Prince Joachim acknowledges that he made a mistake, that's a good sign.

 

[Countessmeout]

Good sign if he actually means it. And not just either his mother or Uncle yelled at him about his actions until he printed it just to quiet them.

The true sign if he means it will be how he actually follows the rules from now on. The fact he abused travel bans which are in place for people other then work to go visit his girlfriend, and then attended a party, shows a serious lack of responsibility and good thinking on his part. Even if he didn't know he had covid before he did it. Its actually a prime example of why social distancing is so important. In the time you asymptomatic you can infect a few dozen people. And what might be mild for you might not be mild for a family member or friend you later come in contact with.

I normally think the junior royals who are private citizens are free to live their lives. And don't comment on their holidays or parties. But yeah when you are flying in the face of pandemic restrictions that's another matter.

 

[theroyalfly]

Good thing Victoria Ortiz's family did issue a statement.

I also like that the Belgian Royal Palace owned up to this mishap and Joachim apologizing. I hope he gets well.

 

[Blog Real]

Prime Minister Wilmès: "Prince Joachim apologized and expressed his willingness to accept any sanction. That's normal. Case closed."

The Prime Minister reopened with Joachim's mother, Princess Astrid, recently opened the Atomium in Brussels.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1267383065032171520

"No comment, please, " said Princess Astrid at the reopening of the Atomium after being pressed with questions about her son, Prince Joachim. He was discredited by attending a party in Spain and then testing positive for the corona virus.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1267381319715168256

 

[crm2317]

The Prime Minister has the right idea. He admitted wrongdoing, apologised and accepted his sanction and that’s the end of it. The same as it would be for any other citizen.

 

[Heavs]

Good on him (and/or whoever encouraged him to put out that apology) far better to admit fault than to try and double down on saying you were in the right due to a technicality or something. Or outright lying.

I was thinking in the UK if Peter Phillips or Zara Tindall had done this it would certainly not be "case closed" as far as the media went, but Belgium might be different in this regard.

 

[maria-olivia]

Case close for Astrid's family of course. I don't know is the case is close in Spain.

 

[Somebody]

Thank you to Marengo, lula, Somebody, carlota, Blog Real, and all others who have been summarizing the numerous reports from Belgium and Spain.


It is somewhat confusing that the prince acknowledges not respecting all quarantine measures while Ms. Ortiz's family denies that any regulations were broken. Are the two parties addressing different sets of rules?

My take is that Victoria's family wanted to communicate that the 15-people rule wasn't broken. They said the 27 people were divided over two meetings with 12 and 15 each. This, however, doesn't make sense, as there were 27 'contact persons' of Joachim and I assume that Victoria was also present at both meetings; so that would add up to 24 (10+13+Victoria).

Joachim on the other hand was supposed to quarantine which he clearly didn't do (and her family surely knew about it); and I also wonder whether him being a prince made a difference in him being able to travel from Belgium to Spain; or that anyone else that could come up with an internship would have the same opportunity to travel.

I agree that his parents were surely aware of their son's travel to Spain, but I am not sure about the inference that they were aware of the reunion party/parties held by his girlfriend's family.

Given their own sense of duty and years of dutiful representation on behalf of the monarchy, it would come as a surprise to me if Princess Astrid and Prince Lorenz condoned ignoring quarantine rules, or the spirit of the rules. The family is clearly close, but it is surely at least a possibility that the prince may have chosen to reunite with his partner even if his parents counselled against it.

I agree that they most likely didn't know about the 'welcome parties'; but I would think that they would be aware that he was planning to travel to his girlfriend immediately (instead of quarantining in Madrid). And I still have doubts about the reason that was given about him taking an internship... If my doubt is justified, I assume they were aware of him not having been in an internship so far and just coming up with it as a reason to travel.

Nonetheless, of course, Joachim himself is responsible. At his age, his parents may have warned against it but they cannot prohibit him from arranging these things himself.