Engagement of Princess Maria Laura and William Isvy; 27 Dec 2021

[Stefan]

If you mean the short video of the couple in London which accompanied the engagement announcement, it is embedded in many of the Belgian press reports, such as the VRT article posted earlier.




And even a marriage to a Nobile is more "unequal" than the marriage to a Baroness of which Lorenz allegedly disapproved for equality reasons.




In the case of the Austrian monarchy, weren't such hopes gone already in 1993 when the apparently boycotted wedding was held?

At the time of the Austria/Thyssen Wedding it was said that the Absence of amopng others AD Lorenz and all the brothers of AD Otto was not because the bride was a Baroness but more because of her previous lifestyle which they thought was not fitting for the wife of the future head of the House.

 

[rominet09]

Yes, at the time, she was considered scandalous. I remember seeing her derrière in the news ! She wore a long dress and her skirt lifted and her bottom (without any garment covering it) on full show !

 

[Tatiana Maria]

On January 31, 2022, a Royal Decree was signed by King Philippe, Prime Minister Alexander De Croo and Minister of Justice Vincent Van Quickenborne granting consent to Princess Maria Laura's planned marriage to William Isvy.


In Dutch:

De door artikel 85, tweede lid, van de Grondwet voorziene toestemming tot het huwelijk van Hare Koninklijke Hoogheid Prinses Maria Laura d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine), Prinses van België, met de Heer William Isvy, wordt verleend.

https://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/c...te=2022-02-25&caller=summary&numac=2022200817
​

In French:

Est accordé le consentement prévu à l'article 85, alinéa 2, de la Constitution au mariage de Son Altesse Royale la Princesse Maria Laura d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine), Princesse de Belgique, avec Monsieur William Isvy.

https://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/c...te=2022-02-25&caller=summary&numac=2022200817
​

Translation:

The consent as foreseen in Article 85, second paragraph, of the Constitution is given for the marriage of Her Royal Highness Princess Maria Laura d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine), Princess of Belgium, to Mr. William Isvy.
​

The predicate and qualification HRH Princess and the title Princess of Belgium are applied to Princess Maria Laura, consistent with the usage of her parents and siblings. But unlike past usage for her parents and siblings, her legal surname "d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine)" was put into this decree. For further details and some discussion, please see the following thread.

Titles of the Belgian Royal Family



It is interesting to compare the timing of the decrees by which royal marriages have been authorized.

Prince Philippe's engagement was announced on September 10, 1999. King Albert II signed the decree authorizing his son's marriage on September 19, 1999, a delay of nine days.

Prince Laurent's engagement was announced on December 19, 2002. King Albert II signed the decree authorizing his son's marriage on the very same day.

Prince Amedeo requested permission for his marriage September 20, 2015. King Philippe signed the decree granting retroactive approval for the marriage on November 12, 2015, a delay of almost two months.

Princess Maria Laura's engagement was announced on December 27, 2021. King Philippe signed the decree approving her marriage January 31, 2022, a delay of one month.

I wonder why King Philippe has taken longer to grant approval for marriages than his father did.

 

[Mbruno]

On January 31, 2022, a Royal Decree was signed by King Philippe, Prime Minister Alexander De Croo and Minister of Justice Vincent Van Quickenborne granting consent to Princess Maria Laura's planned marriage to William Isvy.


In Dutch:

De door artikel 85, tweede lid, van de Grondwet voorziene toestemming tot het huwelijk van Hare Koninklijke Hoogheid Prinses Maria Laura d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine), Prinses van België, met de Heer William Isvy, wordt verleend.

https://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/c...te=2022-02-25&caller=summary&numac=2022200817
​

In French:

Est accordé le consentement prévu à l'article 85, alinéa 2, de la Constitution au mariage de Son Altesse Royale la Princesse Maria Laura d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine), Princesse de Belgique, avec Monsieur William Isvy.

https://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/c...te=2022-02-25&caller=summary&numac=2022200817
​

Translation:

The consent as foreseen in Article 85, second paragraph, of the Constitution is given for the marriage of Her Royal Highness Princess Maria Laura d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine), Princess of Belgium, to Mr. William Isvy.
​

The predicate and qualification HRH Princess and the title Princess of Belgium are applied to Princess Maria Laura, consistent with the usage of her parents and siblings. But unlike past usage for her parents and siblings, her legal surname "d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine)" was put into this decree. For further details and some discussion, please see the following thread.

Titles of the Belgian Royal Family



It is interesting to compare the timing of the decrees by which royal marriages have been authorized.

Prince Philippe's engagement was announced on September 10, 1999. King Albert II signed the decree authorizing his son's marriage on September 19, 1999, a delay of nine days.

Prince Laurent's engagement was announced on December 19, 2002. King Albert II signed the decree authorizing his son's marriage on the very same day.

Prince Amedeo requested permission for his marriage September 20, 2015. King Philippe signed the decree granting retroactive approval for the marriage on November 12, 2015, a delay of almost two months.

Princess Maria Laura's engagement was announced on December 27, 2021. King Philippe signed the decree approving her marriage January 31, 2022, a delay of one month.

I wonder why King Philippe has taken longer to grant approval for marriages than his father did.

I would imagine the timing is determined by the government rather than the King.

The text of Art.85 may mislead us into thinking that the King grants his approval to royal marriages personally, but it has to read together with other constitutional provisions that say that the King is not responsible and that all acts of the King are only valid with ministerial countersignature. In practical terms, the government, rather than the King, is responsible for approving royal marriages and I suppose the civil service under the responsible minister is also in charge of drafting and publishing the corresponding royal decree.

 

[Biri]

Ahh, just the approval of the King.

And I thought a wedding date was already fixed.

 

[Stefan]

On January 31, 2022, a Royal Decree was signed by King Philippe, Prime Minister Alexander De Croo and Minister of Justice Vincent Van Quickenborne granting consent to Princess Maria Laura's planned marriage to William Isvy.


In Dutch:

De door artikel 85, tweede lid, van de Grondwet voorziene toestemming tot het huwelijk van Hare Koninklijke Hoogheid Prinses Maria Laura d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine), Prinses van België, met de Heer William Isvy, wordt verleend.

https://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/c...te=2022-02-25&caller=summary&numac=2022200817
​

In French:

Est accordé le consentement prévu à l'article 85, alinéa 2, de la Constitution au mariage de Son Altesse Royale la Princesse Maria Laura d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine), Princesse de Belgique, avec Monsieur William Isvy.

https://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/c...te=2022-02-25&caller=summary&numac=2022200817
​

Translation:

The consent as foreseen in Article 85, second paragraph, of the Constitution is given for the marriage of Her Royal Highness Princess Maria Laura d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine), Princess of Belgium, to Mr. William Isvy.
​

The predicate and qualification HRH Princess and the title Princess of Belgium are applied to Princess Maria Laura, consistent with the usage of her parents and siblings. But unlike past usage for her parents and siblings, her legal surname "d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine)" was put into this decree. For further details and some discussion, please see the following thread.

Titles of the Belgian Royal Family



It is interesting to compare the timing of the decrees by which royal marriages have been authorized.

Prince Philippe's engagement was announced on September 10, 1999. King Albert II signed the decree authorizing his son's marriage on September 19, 1999, a delay of nine days.

Prince Laurent's engagement was announced on December 19, 2002. King Albert II signed the decree authorizing his son's marriage on the very same day.

Prince Amedeo requested permission for his marriage September 20, 2015. King Philippe signed the decree granting retroactive approval for the marriage on November 12, 2015, a delay of almost two months.

Princess Maria Laura's engagement was announced on December 27, 2021. King Philippe signed the decree approving her marriage January 31, 2022, a delay of one month.

I wonder why King Philippe has taken longer to grant approval for marriages than his father did.

And when was the Decree conerning the marriage of Princess Astrid signed?.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

There was a row in Parliament in 2015 after Maria Laura's brother Prince Amedeo married without the King and Government's legal consent but then sought and received consent retroactively. That act was controversial because according to Article 85 (see above) the consent of Parliament is necessary in order to restore a descendant after a marriage without consent, but the King and Government stood by their actions.

https://www.rtbf.be/info/belgique/d...-une-entourloupe-constitutionnelle?id=9211559

And she has asked permission from King Philippe beforehand (https://www.hln.be/royalty/zij-vroe...een-tweede-amadeogate-kon-vermijden~ae836d08/).

Thank you very much for the link.

Part of the article is behind a paywall, but the section that is free to read is interesting. In summary: Princess Maria Laura requested her uncle the King's permission to marry William Isvy because it was her wish to avoid a repeat of the "Amedeogate" scandal (involving King Philippe's belated consent to her brother Prince Amedeo's marriage; see the quoted post), which instigated a "royal storm" in the political world that was not without consequences. The princess also informed the king of her engagement ahead of the public announcement. (If somebody with access could summarize the remainder of the article, I would be grateful.)

If the narrative is the truth, then it seems although Princess Maria Laura lives in anonymity, she has a sense of her position as a member of the Royal House and its constitutional aspects and is thoughtful enough to put the crown, constitution and public interest first, in contrast to the actions of her brother and uncle in 2015.

And though this is pure speculation, the article caused me to wonder if Princess Maria Laura, or more likely her mother, leaked her request for permission to HLN (the report was published in January, before the King signed his approval), perhaps because of the events of 2015, when King Philippe did not accept responsibility for neglecting to grant permission in advance and palace "sources" in his camp put the blame on Prince Amedeo for neglecting to ask permission. The HLN article let it be known that Maria Laura fulfilled her constitutional responsibility.

I would imagine the timing is determined by the government rather than the King.

The text of Art.85 may mislead us into thinking that the King grants his approval to royal marriages personally, but it has to read together with other constitutional provisions that say that the King is not responsible and that all acts of the King are only valid with ministerial countersignature. In practical terms, the government, rather than the King, is responsible for approving royal marriages and I suppose the civil service under the responsible minister is also in charge of drafting and publishing the corresponding royal decree.

Interesting point. I wonder if it is a matter of today's civil service being more inefficient than during King Albert's reign, or if it is a question of marriage approvals being handled with more seriousness (I am thinking of perhaps whether the government now conducts a background check on the spouses before allowing a royal decree to be drafted, especially as, unlike Philippe and Laurent, both Amedeo nor Maria Laura were marrying non-Belgians).

And when was the Decree conerning the marriage of Princess Astrid signed?.

Posted an answer here: Belgian Abdication, Succession and Constitutional Issues

 

[Stefanie]

Any wedding date known?

 

[Blog Real]

Any wedding date known?

There is no known date yet.

 

[An Ard Ri]

I thought I read that it would take place in the second half of 2022 but no exact date was announced.

 

[Somebody]

I thought I read that it would take place in the second half of 2022 but no exact date was announced.

Most likely Stefan's post:

It was said by some belgian Royal Experts on Twitter that the Wedding would be in the second half of 2022 in Brussels.

 

[Skippy]

Another engagement photo:

https://images.app.goo.gl/uhfhotGMy7pnh8ri7.jpg

The link doesn't work.

Since you either didn't receive my PM or just didn't respond to it, I figured out the link myself. It's the same photo that I already posted.

I thought I read that it would take place in the second half of 2022 but no exact date was announced.

Most likely Stefan's post:

The palace itself stated that the wedding will take place in the second half of 2022.

https://www.monarchie.be/fr/agenda/fiancailles

Le mariage aura lieu au second semestre 2022. - The wedding will take place in the second half of 2022.


Sorry not to bump the topic with an actual date!

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I wonder why the palace did not include the city (Brussels) in the written announcement, given it is what they told the royal correspondents informally. Perhaps the location isn't set in stone.

Further information from what seems to be the communiqué, followed by my summary. [...]

HRH Princess Maria Laura completed high school at the Sint-Jan Berchmanscollege in Brussels [...]

That ought to read "attended high school", since the Princess completed her last two years of high school at Saint John international school in Waterloo.

The newspaper De Standaard wrote that the unexpected engagement is "a proof that anonimity works for Princess Astrid's family".

That is nonsense. Her brother Prince Philippe's engagement to jonkvrouw Mathilde d'Udekem d'Acoz was equally unexpected and he never had a life in anonymity.

That is true, but for how long did they have a relationship to keep private prior to the engagement announcement? There is no confirmation of when Prince Amedeo and Princess Maria Laura began dating their future spouses, but reports suggest it was around 7 years and 6 years before the respective engagement announcements.

The groom-to-be is the son of a British mother and a French-Moroccan father. He was born in Paris but raised in Londen, where he attended the Lycée français Charles de Gaulle. Later he studied finance at the McGill University in Canada. He likes tennis and travelling.

https://www.sudinfo.be/id435648/art...-royale-la-princesse-maria-laura-va-se-marier

The author of the Royal Musings blog wrote in a Twitter reply that William Isvy's father is mostly of Moroccan Jewish ancestry, though she did not give details as to her source.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1475825882111557638

 

[Skippy]

I wonder why the palace did not include the city (Brussels) in the written announcement, given it is what they told the royal correspondents informally. Perhaps the location isn't set in stone.

That ought to read "attended high school", since the Princess completed her last two years of high school at Saint John international school in Waterloo.

That is true, but for how long did they have a relationship to keep private prior to the engagement announcement? There is no confirmation of when Prince Amedeo and Princess Maria Laura began dating their future spouses, but reports suggest it was around 7 years and 6 years before the respective engagement announcements.

The author of the Royal Musings blog wrote in a Twitter reply that William Isvy's father is mostly of Moroccan Jewish ancestry, though she did not give details as to her source.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1475825882111557638

True, and they are also two completely different time periods. Philippe had a relationship with Mathilde in the early days of the internet, and in any case he already knew the d'Udekem d'Acoz family very well in 1997. It's very possible that they met earlier than 1997.

As far as I know, Amedeo's engagement was a surprise and Maria Laura's certainly was.
Amedeo and Lili met as students (source: Queen Mathilde: Engagement: Prince Amedeo of Belgium & Lili Rosboch) and Maria Laura and William met in 2015.

So the original article was right in the way that in today's social media-driven world, it's still possible to live a life out of the public eye.

 

[Stefanie]

Still no wedding date known?

 

[sjetajiem]

Still no wedding date known?

Friday September 9th 2022

Source: Nobiliana MAG 2022

 

[Skippy]

I don't see this date confirmed anywhere, so until that happens I don't take it serious.

 

[eya]

Friday September 9th 2022

Source: Nobiliana MAG 2022

Princess Astrid gave an interview and confirm the date in September but not yet for the day:


"The engaged couple will say "yes" to each other in September 2022, in Brussels.

It is "a mother filled" by the happiness of her daughter who gave the first details of the marriage of Princess Maria Laura with William Isvy.

Taking advantage of an interview with the magazine Soir Mag, Astrid from Belgium shared her joy at participating "in the organization in September of the wedding of my daughter Laura and her fiancé William".

A date confirmed by the couple's press officer, contacted by Point de Vue, which indicates that "more information will be given during the summer".


https://www.pointdevue.fr/royal/bel...ique-et-william-isvy-mariage-a-la-fin-de-lete

 

[Skippy]

Thank you for posting this with a reliable source. What is Nobiliana MAG anyway? I can't find it anywhere online.


I'm happy that we know a bit more now and already had a suspicion that more information would be a summer thing.

 

[maria-olivia]

Princess Astrid's Wedding took place in the Sablon Church because the Cathedral was in Renovation .
If the Wedding will take place in the Cathedral it will be the first Princess of the Belgians since ?

 

[Marengo]

Didn't Queen Matilde and Pss Claire also marry in the Saints Michel and Gudule cathedral?

I remember visiting the church in december 1999, a few days after te wedding of Mathilde, during a school trip to Brussels and the European institutions. The flowers were still there.

But there must be more intimate options too. The duke of Parma got married in the la Cambre Abbey. Did any member of the RF ever get married in Our Lady of Laeken?

 

[Skippy]

Yes, Queen Mathilde and Princess Claire also married at the Saint Michael and Saint Gudula Cathedral, so it wouldn't be that long ago if Princess Maria Laura and William marry there. We'll see in due time, as we now know.

 

[maria-olivia]

Didn't Queen Matilde and Pss Claire also marry in the Saints Michel and Gudule cathedral?

I remember visiting the church in december 1999, a few days after te wedding of Mathilde, during a school trip to Brussels and the European institutions. The flowers were still there.

But there must be more intimate options too. The duke of Parma got married in the la Cambre Abbey. Did any member of the RF ever get married in Our Lady of Laeken?

I don' t know where the two daughters of Philippe Count of Flanders married perhaps at St Jacques of Coudenberg.?

Princess Charlotte ; Wedding in Austria
Princess Louise ?
Princess Stephanie :Wedding in Austria
Princess Clementine ; Wedding in France
Princess Marie José : Wedding in Rome
Princess Astrid : Wedding in Belgum but the Sablon Church because the Cathedral was closed for restauration.
Never a Wedding took place at Notre Dame of Laeken. It is to far away from the center of Brussels and I suppose The Civil Wedding will take place at the City Hall such as for Princess Astrid just before the religious Wedding

 

[maria-olivia]

Yes, Queen Mathilde and Princess Claire also married at the Saint Michael and Saint Gudula Cathedral, so it wouldn't be that long ago if Princess Maria Laura and William marry there. We'll see in due time, as we now know.

They were not born Princess of the Belgians

 

[Skippy]

I see that you have edited your original post, which was what gave the confusion.

With your edit it would indeed be a first for a born Princess of the Belgians.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Did any member of the RF ever get married in Our Lady of Laeken?

Not sure but I've always thought of Notre-Dame de Laeken as the Belgian St Denis/burial site for the RF.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I don' t know where the two daughters of Philippe Count of Flanders married perhaps at St Jacques of Coudenberg.?

Per VRT, Princess Henriette wed at her family home. I think I have read somewhere that it was also the setting of Princess Joséphine's wedding.

https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2018/12/03/henriette/

Princess Charlotte ; Wedding in Austria
Princess Louise ?
Princess Stephanie :Wedding in Austria
Princess Clementine ; Wedding in France
Princess Marie José : Wedding in Rome

Wasn't the wedding of Princess Charlotte held at the Royal Palace in Brussels?

Princess Clémentine could not have married in France; as a pretender to the French throne, her husband Prince Napoléon was prohibited from entering French territory by the French law of exile at the time.

But there must be more intimate options too.

I wonder whether the couple would favor an intimate ceremony or a grander one. Even though Princess Astrid's branch of the family leads their lives with discretion, Princess Maria Laura has been a fixture of royal and society weddings and it would not surprise me if the guestlist for her own nuptials was lengthy.

At the time of the Austria/Thyssen Wedding it was said that the Absence of amopng others AD Lorenz and all the brothers of AD Otto was not because the bride was a Baroness but more because of her previous lifestyle which they thought was not fitting for the wife of the future head of the House.

If that would be true, one wonders about Lorenz's thoughts on his brother-in-law Laurent.

While Lorenz might still prefer royal or noble partners for his children, I wouldn't be surprised if it is considered more important for his sons who are to continue the Habsburg-Este line than for his daughters. Nonetheless, his younger son has a commoner girlfriend (from a rich and prestigious Spanish family but still commoners).

Moved discussion to Prince Joachim's thread.

https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...nd-pictures-part-1-a-42968-6.html#post2470827

Thank you for posting this with a reliable source. What is Nobiliana MAG anyway? I can't find it anywhere online.

There is a subscribers-only royal forum called Nobiliana (link) which has been cited in other discussions on this forum, so perhaps sjetajiem was referring to it, though I think it is unlikely that the royal family would provide information to royal forums before the public announcement.

To my knowledge, today the only requirement for a Habsburg marriage to be deemed equal is that the bride marrying in is a Christian.

Continued the discussion about Prince Lorenz's descendants and the Habsburg house laws in the Heirs to the Austrian Throne and House Rules thread.

https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...rone-and-house-rules-18904-4.html#post2456062

 

[An Ard Ri]

Prince Victor Napoléon and Princess Clémentine of Belgium married at the chapel of Moncalieri Castle near Turin.
https://eurohistoryjournal.blogspot.com/2020/08/110-years-since-marriage-of-prince.html

 

[maria-olivia]

Prince Victor Napoléon and Princess Clémentine of Belgium married at the chapel of Moncalieri Castle near Turin.
https://eurohistoryjournal.blogspot.com/2020/08/110-years-since-marriage-of-prince.html

Thank you . She had to wait her Father the King passed away to marry him.

 

[Biri]

Is the wedding date already known?
We are already in the second half of the year.