Gender, name, and godparent guesses for Guillaume and Stephanie’s first child

[SLV]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

Apparently, the Catholic Church only permits a maximum of one man and one woman in the role of baptismal sponsor. Baptismal sponsors are required to be confirmed Catholics.

Non-Catholics who were baptized as Christians are permitted to serve as witnesses to the baptism.

Code of Canon Law - IntraText

Judging from a quick search, it seems there are arguments amongst Catholics as to if it it is appropriate to label the non-sponsor baptismal witnesses as "godparents" or not. My guess is that this is the reason why some Catholic royals are said to have two "godparents" while others are said to have several.

But how strickt is this rule?
My husband is catholic and my girls are baptised. We chose the godparents but the priest didn't check if they were catholic too. In each case one of them was, the other wasn't. No problems at all. So, technically they could choose whoever they wanted, as long as the godparents themselves can accept the role.

[kathia_sophia]

Originally Posted by SLV

But how strickt is this rule?
My husband is catholic and my girls are baptised. We chose the godparents but the priest didn't check if they were catholic too. In each case one of them was, the other wasn't. No problems at all. So, technically they could choose whoever they wanted, as long as the godparents themselves can accept the role.

I agree with you. Wasn't that what happened with Crown Princess Victoria on the baptism of Princess Eleonore of Belgium? They had two "sponsors" as godparents, and Victoria was a godparent "witness".



Besides, on a different perspective. Isn't Guillaume a godparent of one of WA and Maxima's daughters? (was it Ariane?). He is catholic and still was a godfather of someone from a different faith. The same with King Felipe and his godchild Prince Vincent.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by SLV

But how strickt is this rule?
My husband is catholic and my girls are baptised. We chose the godparents but the priest didn't check if they were catholic too. In each case one of them was, the other wasn't. No problems at all. So, technically they could choose whoever they wanted, as long as the godparents themselves can accept the role.

From what I can see, your choice complied with the Catholic church's rule of choosing either one or two baptismal sponsors (872-873) who are required to be Catholic (874 §1), so naturally there were no problems.

Code of Canon Law - IntraText

Apparently your non-Catholic godparent was either recognized as a "witness of the baptism" (874 §2), if they were a baptized non-Catholic Christian, or not recognized by the Catholic church, if they were not a baptized Christian.

Their rules, strictly speaking, apply to "sponsors" and "witnesses". The term of "godparent" is not in the English translation, so I am assuming that Catholic parents can indeed interpret the term any way they want but godparents who are not sponsors or witnesses will not be given any recognition by their church.

Can. 872 Insofar as possible, a person to be baptized is to be given a sponsor who assists an adult in Christian initiation or together with the parents presents an infant for baptism. A sponsor also helps the baptized person to lead a Christian life in keeping with baptism and to fulfill faithfully the obligations inherent in it.

Can. 873 There is to be only one male sponsor or one female sponsor or one of each.

Can. 874 §1. To be permitted to take on the function of sponsor a person must:

1/ be designated by the one to be baptized, by the parents or the person who takes their place, or in their absence by the pastor or minister and have the aptitude and intention of fulfilling this function;

2/ have completed the sixteenth year of age, unless the diocesan bishop has established another age, or the pastor or minister has granted an exception for a just cause;

3/ be a Catholic who has been confirmed and has already received the most holy sacrament of the Eucharist and who leads a life of faith in keeping with the function to be taken on;

4/ not be bound by any canonical penalty legitimately imposed or declared;

5/ not be the father or mother of the one to be baptized.

§2. A baptized person who belongs to a non-Catholic ecclesial community is not to participate except together with a Catholic sponsor and then only as a witness of the baptism.

Originally Posted by kathia_sophia

Besides, on a different perspective. Isn't Guillaume a godparent of one of WA and Maxima's daughters? (was it Ariane?). He is catholic and still was a godfather of someone from a different faith. The same with King Felipe and his godchild Prince Vincent.

In those cases, the requirements for godparents were determined by the Calvinist and Lutheran churches respectively, as those were the churches into which those children were being baptized, not by the Catholic church.

[sjetajiem]

Originally Posted by kathia_sophia

I agree with you. Wasn't that what happened with Crown Princess Victoria on the baptism of Princess Eleonore of Belgium? They had two "sponsors" as godparents, and Victoria was a godparent "witness".



Besides, on a different perspective. Isn't Guillaume a godparent of one of WA and Maxima's daughters? (was it Ariane?). He is catholic and still was a godfather of someone from a different faith. The same with King Felipe and his godchild Prince Vincent.

King Felipe of Spain is also godparent of Princess Ingrid Alexandra of Norway

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

In those cases, the requirements for godparents were determined by the Calvinist and Lutheran churches respectively, as those were the churches into which those children were being baptized, not by the Catholic church.

Exactly; and for the Protestant Church of the Netherlands, it's rather simple: there is no requirement for baptismal sponsors. The only formally relevant people at the baptism beside the baby itself are the parents; at least one needs to be able to answer the questions asked - to do so that parent needs to be 'confirmed' (a public confession of faith - typically after age 18) but in the Dutch Reformed Church previously the requirement was only being baptized yourself.

Anything else is just personal preference. From my experience, attending christenings in a wide variety of local churches, the (only) honorary role at a christening is typically the one carrying the baby into the church (sometimes at the start of the service and having the baby on your lap the whole service; and sometimes when the child is to be christened). Many protestant children don't even have 'godparents'.

So, Willem-Alexander en Máxima could do as they pleased and only needed to make sure that the local vicar conducting the service was on board with the role they wanted to give some people during the service - but their names most likely weren't registered by the church.

[SLV]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

From what I can see, your choice complied with the Catholic church's rule of choosing either one or two baptismal sponsors (872-873) who are required to be Catholic (874 §1), so naturally there were no problems.

Code of Canon Law - IntraText

Apparently your non-Catholic godparent was either recognized as a "witness of the baptism" (874 §2), if they were a baptized non-Catholic Christian, or not recognized by the Catholic church, if they were not a baptized Christian.

Their rules, strictly speaking, apply to "sponsors" and "witnesses". The term of "godparent" is not in the English translation, so I am assuming that Catholic parents can indeed interpret the term any way they want but godparents who are not sponsors or witnesses will not be given any recognition by their church.

Can. 872 Insofar as possible, a person to be baptized is to be given a sponsor who assists an adult in Christian initiation or together with the parents presents an infant for baptism. A sponsor also helps the baptized person to lead a Christian life in keeping with baptism and to fulfill faithfully the obligations inherent in it.

Can. 873 There is to be only one male sponsor or one female sponsor or one of each.

Can. 874 §1. To be permitted to take on the function of sponsor a person must:

1/ be designated by the one to be baptized, by the parents or the person who takes their place, or in their absence by the pastor or minister and have the aptitude and intention of fulfilling this function;

2/ have completed the sixteenth year of age, unless the diocesan bishop has established another age, or the pastor or minister has granted an exception for a just cause;

3/ be a Catholic who has been confirmed and has already received the most holy sacrament of the Eucharist and who leads a life of faith in keeping with the function to be taken on;

4/ not be bound by any canonical penalty legitimately imposed or declared;

5/ not be the father or mother of the one to be baptized.

§2. A baptized person who belongs to a non-Catholic ecclesial community is not to participate except together with a Catholic sponsor and then only as a witness of the baptism.

In those cases, the requirements for godparents were determined by the Calvinist and Lutheran churches respectively, as those were the churches into which those children were being baptized, not by the Catholic church.

There was no difference made. No questions asked about their faith, at all. So in all three cases both godparents were registered as sponsors, not one as sponsor and one as witness.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by SLV

There was no difference made. No questions asked about their faith, at all. So in all three cases both godparents were registered as sponsors, not one as sponsor and one as witness.

Interesting, so there are apparently Catholic churches whose registries do not comply with their own church's rules (as I have checked that the above link is indeed the Vatican's official and current code).

[Moonmaiden23]

There are a lot of liturgical abuses within individual dioceses. All bishops and priests are not created equal unfortunately.

Both John Paul II and Benedict XVI were trying to address these inconsistencies and abuses, but many of them are too deep rooted.

A sponsor/god parent should ideally be a Catholic. That is the entire point of having a god parent-to be a spiritual father/mother to a baptized person. And at the very very least they should be a practicing Christian.

[theroyalfly]

I know this is wishful thinking but I hope Prince Charles' godparents are Leonor, Elisabeth and Amalia.