Victoria will choose the Throne over Love

[Danielle]

Hahahaha...this guy is cute. And he seems to have a lot of humour...an other attribute a trainer would need, when he would train with me. Is this "any" guy or a known person?
But it´s said Daniel should also have humour...not that I´ve noticed it, but it´s constantly said (next to statements, that he´s a "social genius")
I guess in your "oh, now we have winter, it´s down to incredible cold 20 °C"-country that with the juice is even more spread (?). At least you should have fresh fruits all year round (?)

I have no idea. He was just some random guy my psychology lecturer used to illustrate 'weird people' or something (I am trying to look for the other one she used, but I can't find it). There are more pics of him:


http://pro.corbis.com/images/RF4467536.jpg?size=572&uid={9ccfc11a-1ad7-431d-96f7-fb67ccf28c0c}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/RF4467541.jpg?size=572&uid={4830717e-5e6d-4f7e-8458-e8f5906391db}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/RF4467538.jpg?size=572&uid={dfabfc93-328a-4dae-9130-469c76925913}

I'm sure Daniel is funny. He seems like he could crack a few jokes.

Yes, we have fruit all year round, but the best stuff is in summer. All those nice mangoes that grow on a tree in my backyard (who says they don't grow in suburban Sydney) and all the watermelons. I went through a juice phase last summer where I would juice every single bit of fruit in the house. I have since found out that I can't eat strawberries anymore. Noooo! I feel sorry for countries that don't always have fresh fruit, or the fruit that is, costs too much. We have a drought, so ours is expensive too, but still.

 

[Danielle]

Exactly. I don't think Swedes are mean and unsympathetic so as to think that Victoria doesn't deserve love and happiness. I am sure Swedes would be a bit lenient if Victoria's choice of mate has small flaws ( like everyone does). However if Victoria's family and/or the people found her choice of mate truly unacceptable then Victoria should let him go.

Very true. Her family are always going to be her family no matter what, so if she finds someone who really wouldn't suit the expectations of the family, then he must go.

 

[Lena]

I have no idea. He was just some random guy my psychology lecturer used to illustrate 'weird people' or something (I am trying to look for the other one she used, but I can't find it). There are more pics of him:


http://pro.corbis.com/images/RF4467536.jpg?size=572&uid={9ccfc11a-1ad7-431d-96f7-fb67ccf28c0c}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/RF4467541.jpg?size=572&uid={4830717e-5e6d-4f7e-8458-e8f5906391db}
http://pro.corbis.com/images/RF4467538.jpg?size=572&uid={dfabfc93-328a-4dae-9130-469c76925913}

I'm sure Daniel is funny. He seems like he could crack a few jokes.

Yes, we have fruit all year round, but the best stuff is in summer. All those nice mangoes that grow on a tree in my backyard (who says they don't grow in suburban Sydney) and all the watermelons. I went through a juice phase last summer where I would juice every single bit of fruit in the house. I have since found out that I can't eat strawberries anymore. Noooo! I feel sorry for countries that don't always have fresh fruit, or the fruit that is, costs too much. We have a drought, so ours is expensive too, but still.

Hm, sounds like an interesting lecture...I just think, that this guy isn´t too weird. Even among the Royals we have seen weirder appearances (alien hats or yellow/red dresses at spanish weddings )
Yes, here you are really to envy. It´s not just, that imported fruits are more expensive...through the long journeys they also taste worse. For example the strawberries one gets in March...apropo strawberries...what do you mean with you can´t eat them anymore? Are you allergic? Maybe it´s the fertiliser used for them...I had this for a long time with kiwis. Can you eat woodstrawberries...don´t know, if you have them in Oz http://markus.nolf.org/2002/flo/flo-34.jpg During my search I also came a along a sort of strawberries called ALEXANDRIA. I bet our Alexandria was patron for them http://www.plants-magazine.com/plants/plantsnewindividual.asp?id=54

To go back to topic...yes, maybe he is funny. At least he seems like these guys, who love to tease their girlfriends a bit...and IMO there´s nothing wrong with that. It never gets boring...

 

[Lillia]

well I think she has been trained by her parents to regard the throne as most important so come one boys and girls and vot for the throne as it also would be Vickys solution. Or lets forumulate it mor positive: A guy who loves Victoria just can have Victoria with the throne and Sweden there is no just Victoria.

Why does it have to be one for the other; why not both?

 

[Alexandria]

Firstly, I have to say Lena that as one of the moderators of this forum (the Swedish forum as well as the rest of the forum as a whole), you should get lots of credit for creating scintillating discussion in your forum's threads! It's not just pictures and articles, but very interesting, sometimes even provocative attempts to create discussions! Great job!

I am bringing the discussion back to one of the first points in this thread as I am going through something right now in my personal life that is sort of parallel to this discussion of Victoria and Daniel being asked to give up their passions or duties in life for the other. (A pre-warning: Likely too much information will be shared about my life at this point. As understandably not everybody will care about Alexandria's personal life and her relationships, now's a good time to skip to the next post if you do not care to hear my whining! I think my friends wish they could skip to the next post, too! )

When Victoria says, that she wouldn´t give up the throne...would this also mean, that she wouldn´t give up the throne, when she would notice, that her boyfriend couldn´t live with the idea of becoming a prince consort?
In the interview (as we know it) it doesn´t come out, if the force (in this theoretical question) would come from the outside (Monarch, government, people) or from the other part in the relationship.
So the provocative additional question is: Is it then fair to ask Daniel to give up his gyms, when she wouldn´t do the "same"?

In brief (well, as brief as I am capable of!), I have been dating someone who has a very unique job. He is a helicopter pilot and travels frequently for his job, with various assignments and tasks. Within the last year he has gone on polar bear rescue missions, flown adventure travellers into the wilderness for fishing and skiing expeditions, etc. Last summer he spent four months in the Arctic with diamond miners (first flying in the miners, then on a weekly basis, food, supplies and the like). He has chosen again to go this year through the summer. Since I've learned the news, it has been upsetting (a major understatement!) to know that we'll be apart all summer without much communication -- he will have no access to phones or the internet during the entire time.

This last week I have been in a daze at work and had many sleepless nights because of this "issue." Ultimately, deep inside of myself I know that I am being petty to be so upset with him because this is his job and he loves his job with a capital L. And it isn't fair to ask that he stay home so that he can call me nightly and e-mail me funny jokes.

I am a realist (to steal a phrase from Lena!) but also a romantic. The realist in me knows that I would be mighty mad at him if he ever told me to stop doing something I loved, to give up one of my passions in life for his sake (especially if it didn't physically hurt or endanger me or him). But the romantic in me wants him around even if just to know that he's around and we have nothing to say to each other. (Well, it is me, so I always have something to say so that would not ever be an issue!) In this case, although I think romanticism should win out always, the realist is in the right: I could never ask him to not go on this trip or that trip, or to give up his job, if I wasn't willing to sacrifice something in return. I think relationships are about compromise -- sometimes one person has to give up something and other times the other person will. For me, I know that this relationship is full of challenges (good thing I like challenging relationships!), his job being the first one, and maybe in the (far, far, far!) future where we will live. But along the way we'll have to learn to compromise small things.

So, about Victoria and Daniel: They are of course not in my position. To ask the special person in my life to give up his job (or at least this particular assignment of his job) is not to ask him to give up something that he has been groomed for his entire life, and for which an entire nation depends on him for as is the case of Victoria. I don't know a lot about Daniel, but I would think that he would be smart enough to know that when he started dating Victoria he was not dating a mere Swedish girl, that she is someone with a unique task ahead of her and a pre-set life with duties and obligations she must keep. It would be unfair of Daniel to ask of Victoria, just as it is unfair of me to ask the special person in my life, to give up something she/he loves as "proof" or for the "sake" of our love and our relationship.

So is it fair to ask Daniel to give up his gyms for Victoria? By the above measurement, no. But the role of a future Queen of a nation is different and distinct, because were Victoria to give up the throne to be with Daniel, it is not just the two of them who would be affected (as would be the case for me). It would be a decision that would affect many other people and create ripples -- it would affect Carl Philip (and possibly Emma) as he would succeed his sister, it would affect the rest of the royal family, it would affect the government (they would have to train Carl Philip and include him ini government meetings), and it would affect the Swedish people. That is asking for a lot of people to change how they've been living their lives so that you can keep running some gyms, no matter how successful they are.

The romantic in me has always believed that if and when you love someone so completely, you would put aside your own happiness for this other's happiness, that that is the essence of true love. And so my special person is going to the Arctic with my blessing because I care a lot about him and I care about what he loves in life, including his job -- wherever it takes him. I am making a (small) sacrifice for the sake of us because I think that he is worth it, but also that we are worth it.

If Daniel loves Victoria with all his heart, I would hope that since her job is the significant one of the two (no denying that), he would make a (huge) sacrifice for her in giving up his gyms -- but realize that in return he would get something better in return: an entire life with her and her love, at his side.

 

[Danielle]

Hm, sounds like an interesting lecture...I just think, that this guy isn´t too weird. Even among the Royals we have seen weirder appearances (alien hats or yellow/red dresses at spanish weddings )
Yes, here you are really to envy. It´s not just, that imported fruits are more expensive...through the long journeys they also taste worse. For example the strawberries one gets in March...apropo strawberries...what do you mean with you can´t eat them anymore? Are you allergic? Maybe it´s the fertiliser used for them...I had this for a long time with kiwis. Can you eat woodstrawberries...don´t know, if you have them in Oz http://markus.nolf.org/2002/flo/flo-34.jpg During my search I also came a along a sort of strawberries called ALEXANDRIA. I bet our Alexandria was patron for them http://www.plants-magazine.com/plants/plantsnewindividual.asp?id=54

To go back to topic...yes, maybe he is funny. At least he seems like these guys, who love to tease their girlfriends a bit...and IMO there´s nothing wrong with that. It never gets boring...

Yes, maybe she should have just picked some of those weird outfits to illustrate her point.

Oh, that wouldn't taste too nice. Yes, I think I am allergic to them. I was crippled over in pain from these stomach cramps. Not very nice. But they taste so good. It may very well be the fertiliser. They use so much of the stuff on fruits and vegetables that all our kids are going to have genetic mutations. That's why I praise organic foods. I've never heard of wood strawberries, but they look nice. And the fact that you have 'woods' over there makes me jealous.

Yes, back on topic (sorry). As long as he doesn't make a joke at the expense of Victoria. That wouldn't be very nice.

 

[Lillia]

Very true. Her family are always going to be her family no matter what, so if she finds someone who really wouldn't suit the expectations of the family, then he must go.

I agree; it's too hard to swim upstream when a family does not at all like the boyfriend.

 

[Danielle]

Firstly, I have to say Lena that as one of the moderators of this forum (the Swedish forum as well as the rest of the forum as a whole), you should get lots of credit for creating scintillating discussion in your forum's threads! It's not just pictures and articles, but very interesting, sometimes even provocative attempts to create discussions! Great job!

I won't quote the whole post.

Alexandria, I really admire you. It must’ve been hard being separated for 4 months and then again finding out it will happen again, but it’s touching that you love him enough to support his decisions even though they’re not exactly what you want. I don’t think I could be that strong, but then again, I’ve never loved anyone. I really like your last two paragraphs. I think that encapsulates everything, and I think it should be published somewhere.

It would be unfair of Daniel to ask of Victoria, just as it is unfair of me to ask the special person in my life, to give up something she/he loves as "proof" or for the "sake" of our love and our relationship.

That is very true. It is unfair to ask someone to give up their job, and to do it to ‘prove’ something is wrong. No one should ever do that to someone else. It’s like those people who say ‘buy me a ring to show me how much you love me’. Well, it's kind of related.

I hope that you don’t get too lonely over the summer () and you’re very lucky to have found someone you care about so much. Thank you for sharing your story with everyone.

 

[Lena]

Firstly, I have to say Lena that as one of the moderators of this forum (the Swedish forum as well as the rest of the forum as a whole), you should get lots of credit for creating scintillating discussion in your forum's threads! It's not just pictures and articles, but very interesting, sometimes even provocative attempts to create discussions! Great job!

thank you. When I started to read the paragraph, I´ve thought "oh no, a wigging is waiting"...for distracting a thread to strawberries and boy toys

(A pre-warning: Likely too much information will be shared about my life at this point. As understandably not everybody will care about Alexandria's personal life and her relationships, now's a good time to skip to the next post if you do not care to hear my whining! I think my friends wish they could skip to the next post, too! )

Don´t worry...at least me wouldn´t mind to start a "Alexandria-news & pictures thread, part I" (with all the princesses called Alexandra you could get through with that...so that the other Admins wouldn´t notice ) I´ve a weakness for great stories on the net. And yours is surely one. A helicopter pilot...so a real nature boy-this sounds so romantic!! But of course a summer without your very special person doesn´t sound "as romantic".
I must say your post gave an interesting insight and led a bit away from all the theory. We (or let´s say me) were to much focused on "giving up this" and "giving up that"...but while discussing all that one shouldn´t forget, that one gets a lot of back, when one sacrifies something for the other one. For example more time with the partner. Or as in your case (I hope) the insight, that one is loving one unconditional. And though this might seem in the first moment greater for the person, who benefits from the sacrifice, so I though believe it´s also a great feeling for the one, who sacrified something, because one notes, that one is so much in love (as we have noted, not everyone here is that ) that one is able to do that...and of course usually also appreciation and thankfulness comes back.
So maybe it would help to focus in the case of Daniel and Victoria not just always on the "bad" sides. Maybe it would help them (not that we have much influence), when ppl would point out the special, but good things in this relationship.

The point on Carl Philip (and other people involved) was a very good one, I haven´t thought of.
Carl Philip never gave me the impression, that he would be sad of even angry, because of the lost "rights". He seems to enjoy a quiet and secret life...far away from the media. A life in the limelight would change his life completely! So Victoria (or a crown prince(ss) ) also has to think of her siblings...

The point, that Daniel did know, what he has to expect is also an good one. But I´m not sure, if we really always know, what we have to expect...no matter how intelligent we are. For example it was reported (told of friends), that Daniel was completely shocked, when he noted, that one day photographers followed him. I´m sure theoretically he knew, that this would and could happen...but maybe his feeling was, that the dated girl is special for him, but that no one else could and would share such feelings...so that the whole thing would be only interesting for them two.
And as in most relationships probably all started to grow slowly but steadily...so that they started with an "open end"...not many would start to talk about marriage after the first dinner together...

Good luck with your very special person, Alexandria!

That's why I praise organic foods. I've never heard of wood strawberries, but they look nice. And the fact that you have 'woods' over there makes me jealous.

Yes, back on topic (sorry). As long as he doesn't make a joke at the expense of Victoria. That wouldn't be very nice.

Yes, I also prefer organic food...it makes such a difference with fruits and vegetables. E.g. those mentioned strawberries can´t grow on fields, they need a special ground (earth out of the woods) and they need special care (but I though guess, they would grow in Sydney...one just has to care for the special earth)...one wouldn´t believe, what a difference this makes.
You are the last one, who needs to say sorry for distracting. If anybody should, then I should "touch my own nose" (german saying ). But IMO it would be a pity, when other members and me would never learn, that mangos grow in the suburbs of Sydney and other things. Some education and fun is never wrong-IMO

 

[Alexandria]

I won't quote the whole post.

Alexandria, I really admire you. It must’ve been hard being separated for 4 months and then again finding out it will happen again, but it’s touching that you love him enough to support his decisions even though they’re not exactly what you want.

Thank you Danielle for all your nice words.

Actually, we've only just started dating, although I met him at Christmastime. He went last year to the Arctic but I only learned about it recently. This is our first time apart like this.

I don’t think I could be that strong, but then again, I’ve never loved anyone.

You'll have your chance at love Danielle! I think people would be surprised how strong they can be when they have to be. (My friends would not say that I was all that strong earlier this week -- I was a complete basket case all day Monday and in a complete tailspin when I learned of the news Sunday.) The one thing I have always been known for and what is likely helping me through this is that I have always been fiercely independent. Even if he were here I would make sure to have some "me" time (I'll just get more of it the next four months!). A friend whose husband is also a helicopter pilot (her husband and my special person went to pilot school together) warned me in advance that if I went ahead with this relationship I would have to get used to life as a pilot's girlfriend/wife.

That is very true. It is unfair to ask someone to give up their job, and to do it to ‘prove’ something is wrong. No one should ever do that to someone else. It’s like those people who say ‘buy me a ring to show me how much you love me’. Well, it's kind of related.

I understand and I agree. Love, if it is real, should never have to be proven. It is something that just is. I find it silly when I see women comparing engagement rings -- as if the size of their diamond(s) is a testament of their fiancee's love for them. And if you're keeping tabs in your relationship of how much you've sacrificed or given up for the other person, then it really isn't love. I don't believe in keeping tabs in relationships or friendships. You do the things you do for the other person because you want to, not so you will get a gold star next to your name.

 

[Alexandria]

Don´t worry...at least me wouldn´t mind to start a "Alexandria-news & pictures thread, part I" (with all the princesses called Alexandra you could get through with that...so that the other Admins wouldn´t notice )

Well, we'd have to supplement the thread with other Alexandra's -- one about me only would be pretty boring, especially over the next four months! Surely it would be my whining about how much I miss a certain someone. (I gave myself a nickname to my friends, like the way people sign their questions for relationship advice columns in newspapers -- Abandoned for the Arctic! )

I must say your post gave an interesting insight and led a bit away from all the theory. We (or let´s say me) were to much focused on "giving up this" and "giving up that"...but while discussing all that one shouldn´t forget, that one gets a lot of back, when one sacrifies something for the other one. For example more time with the partner. Or as in your case (I hope) the insight, that one is loving one unconditional. And though this might seem in the first moment greater for the person, who benefits from the sacrifice, so I though believe it´s also a great feeling for the one, who sacrified something, because one notes, that one is so much in love (as we have noted, not everyone here is that ) that one is able to do that...and of course usually also appreciation and thankfulness comes back.

I think in the cases of royals, especially those who have great tasks ahead of them (to be King or Queen), love most certainly has to be unconditionals since the rest of their lives, or other parts of their lives will be based on so many conditions that they might not be able to control. Perhaps not so much in Sweden, though I guess republicans and anti-monarchists always exists, Victoria's future role as Queen is contingent on the people of Sweden that they'll want a monarchy still and her as the head of it. Perhaps down the line they may decide that they want a man (Carl Philip) to be the head of their monarchy and not a woman. Perhaps the Swedish people may decide they want no monarchy at all. Then, even when Victoria is queen there can be all sorts of other conditions on her reign: how popular she is, whether she does something wrong or inappropriate (like the public outcry when she did not return from her holidays during the tusami and so many Swedes had lost loved ones), whether she has sons or daughters etc.

I could not imagine going through all these things and then having a personal life where my husband did not fully support me or to know that my husband was not completely happy as a prince consort or that he secretly was disgruntled with me for having made him give up his successful gym business for me.

It would be no way for Victoria to live. (It makes me think of Charles/Camilla/Diana -- not that I want to stir up that controversy here. But Charles sacrificed himself (his true love) for the throne and look where that got him.)

I think that crown princes (princesses) who can choose life partners for themselves based firstly on love, then for duty will be much better monarchs because they know that they'll have a true partner in every sense of the word at their side. Mathilde, Maxima, Letizia, Mette-Marit, Mary, et. al., whether you like these women or not is one thing, but they are the "chosen" ones for their husbands and in the end that will make their husbands better kings because they'll be coming from a place of true love and support to lead their people.

So maybe it would help to focus in the case of Daniel and Victoria not just always on the "bad" sides. Maybe it would help them (not that we have much influence), when ppl would point out the special, but good things in this relationship.

I guess we'll never know the intimacies of their relationship -- not that we would want to. And whether one likes Daniel or not (with or without his trucker hats! ), the fact that they've been together for 3+ years means that there must be something good in this relationship to keep them together. My special person trekking up to the Arctic is not something I am looking forward to, and surely when he told me the news I could've said goodbye right away, but I hung in there because he makes me laugh out loud like no one else has ever been able to, because I have so much fun with him when we are doing something and even when we are doing nothing.

The point on Carl Philip (and other people involved) was a very good one, I haven´t thought of.
Carl Philip never gave me the impression, that he would be sad of even angry, because of the lost "rights". He seems to enjoy a quiet and secret life...far away from the media. A life in the limelight would change his life completely! So Victoria (or a crown prince(ss) ) also has to think of her siblings...

I think if Carl Philip were five or six it would not be such a big deal for the throne to go from Victoria to him. But Carl Philip is my age -- 26 -- and at this age one has set up one's life as one likes it to be and for such a major change as to go from a "mere" prince one day to the future king the next day is a major transition that is not fair to foister upon someone so suddenly.

The point, that Daniel did know, what he has to expect is also an good one. But I´m not sure, if we really always know, what we have to expect...no matter how intelligent we are. For example it was reported (told of friends), that Daniel was completely shocked, when he noted, that one day photographers followed him. I´m sure theoretically he knew, that this would and could happen...but maybe his feeling was, that the dated girl is special for him, but that no one else could and would share such feelings...so that the whole thing would be only interesting for them two.

Yes, I'm sure that there is a distinct difference between knowing what to anticipate versus actually living the reality of those anticipations. For Daniel to know that the press would be interested in him because he was dating Victoria is one thing but to actually have photographers follow him or to write about him and see himself in Seg Or (or whatever the tabloids are that regularly write about them) is something else entirely. (I would think it would be entirely surreal for him.) But 3+ years later I would hope that he would come to terms with it by now. He may not like it and it may never seem completely normal for him, but 3+ years later it should be known and accepted and he should be able to move past it.

And as in most relationships probably all started to grow slowly but steadily...so that they started with an "open end"...not many would start to talk about marriage after the first dinner together...

But at the age they are at, I'm sure it would've come up quickly -- maybe not the first date, but surely a few months later it would be addressed. (Well, that is the case for my friends and I.) And as Victoria will be queen one day and having children who will carry on the Bernadotte dynasty is surely an important factor, such a discussion could not be overlooked (marriage, not necessarily kids yet). And because I am in the stage of a new relationship, people talk a lot in getting to know each other. In my case we have the unique advantage that we have mutual friends who know us both very well so some information is exchanged between my childhood friend with my special person and she to me about him. But I have still learned a lot about him from him. I know not just the kind of music he likes or what his favourite movie is, but also that he wants to buy a home on the west coast of Canada in the next year and what he sees himself doing in 10 years.

 

[NJRedDevils]

depends if their love is accepted by the parents/family, then since CP was meant to be Crown Prince till they changed it, she could pass it on back to him.. I voted LOVE and now it's 50 /50

 

[Gita]

Love

I voted love!

 

[mgrant]

The Throne

I voted for the throne. While everything in my being screams "Go for the love!" , I would be bound by my duty to the people of my country. I would stay single and pass the throne to whomever is next in line when the time comes for me to step down. Then if the love of my life is still living and breathing , I'll marry him and go quietly into the country.

 

[Piewi]

I chosed the throne! First my responsabilties with the country that i represent andd i live for them.
And agree with mgrant, if he still breathing and go to my fav place in the world with him!

 

[NJRedDevils]

umm Lena, Madde and i will marry, we been hiding our love for a long time now, gonna be 5 yrs in July, that Jonas dude is just a stand in , while i finish my internship and then she will be Mrs ....... my wife , King is happy to give us his blessing cause i already spoke to him about this and i will get be a Duke

 

[Gita]

Marriage

Okay, NJRedDevils, since we have kept your secret for so long here at The Royal Forums can all the members here go to yours and Madeleine's wedding?!

Oh yes, it has really been nice of Jonas to act as Madeleine's boyfriend to keep the press at bay.

 

[Genevieve]

I have voted for love because if you haven't got love then what else have you got?

I would not want Victoria to be in a loveless marriage for the sake of the throne.

Queen Elizabeth seems like someone who has put her duties to the throne before her marriage and her family and there has been some public comments from Charles about how his parents were not around very much while he was growing up and how he never felt much support from them. Even though she is a very popular and well liked queen, her family is as much a reflection of her as the royal schedule she keeps up. I would say even that her family is a more important reflection of her and that while her family respects her as a monarch, I don't think she did as well as a mother or a wife.

Also it seems that in Queen Elizabeth's generation the crown princes and crown princesses mostly married appropriate individuals (i.e. nobility) but not necessarily individuals they were heads over heels in love with. The latest generation of crown princes seems to have made unlikely choices for future queens but those choices have been made entirely out of love. Even Charles, though he obviously errored in his initial choice of bride. As Victoria is of this latter generation, I hope she will follow in the footsteps of her peers and marry for love and not for duty or obligation.

 

[hrhcp]

A whole page, and no pictures of the lovely two-some

 

[Lena]

From The Local:

Victoria: I'd choose the throne over love
Swedish Crown Princess Victoria has told a Turkish newspaper that she would give up her relationship for the throne.

Speaking in an interview with the Milliyet newspaper in Turkey, where she has been on an official visit, Victoria indicated that she realised that a princess could not marry whomever she wished.

"I was born to help Sweden and I try to do my best," said the princess.

Asked whether marriage with her gym-owner boyfriend Daniel Westling was on the cards, Victoria replied that she had no marriage plans, "but obviously I would like to get married one day."

Victoria said she would never give up her right to the throne, adding that she would choose her royal position ahead of love.

"I want to marry someone whom I love, and who is loved by the Swedish people," she said.

Victoria and Westling have been together for four years, but there have been persistent rumours circulating in Sweden's tabloid press that King Carl Gustaf and Queen Silvia doubt his suitability to be a member of the royal family.

Concerns about Westling include his poor English and his rumoured awkwardness in social situations.

http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=1635&date=20050619

 

[mixer2002de]

Oh poor Victoria she really would give up the love of a lifetime for the throne? Even a British royal decided else. What really sucks is that they now changed the law for Charles.

 

[Alexandria]

"I want to marry someone whom I love, and who is loved by the Swedish people," she said.

Perhaps I should follow discussions of V&D a bit more closely, but I wonder if anyone can tell me what the feelings of the Swedish people are for Daniel? I realize that he has never spoken publicly about his relationship with Victoria (score one for Daniel!) and that he has been pretty much low-key and private during their relationship, but it's been 3+ years. Do the Swedish people like him? Do they think he would make a suitable consort for Victoria (minus the trucker hats, of course -- or maybe the Swedes will embrance the trucker hats?).

I know that around people many members seem to prefer Daniel Collert over Daniel Westling, but is that also the consensus of the future Queen Victoria's subjects?

 

[Lena]

Perhaps I should follow discussions of V&D a bit more closely, but I wonder if anyone can tell me what the feelings of the Swedish people are for Daniel? I realize that he has never spoken publicly about his relationship with Victoria (score one for Daniel!) and that he has been pretty much low-key and private during their relationship, but it's been 3+ years. Do the Swedish people like him? Do they think he would make a suitable consort for Victoria (minus the trucker hats, of course -- or maybe the Swedes will embrance the trucker hats?).

I know that around people many members seem to prefer Daniel Collert over Daniel Westling, but is that also the consensus of the future Queen Victoria's subjects?

The latest poll was made from Expressen and they asked "Will Daniel be a good prince". And of 8136 persons 67% voted "yes" and 33% "no". Even though such polls are not 100% representative, I guess they though reflect the opinion of the people at the moment. The thing is...I´ve the feeling, the Swedish people don´t really care about Daniel Westling. You can´t find much on him in the net and also the daily tabloids write more about why Daniel can´t be prince, than about a wedding. Also the international press is reluctant, more so than in the times with Daniel "the cute one" Collert (Hey, I´m biased ). Even before the german tabloids got a "lockjaw" they haven´t seen Daniel as serious candidate. And I guess that´s still the general feeling..."not a serious candidate" (it´s also mostly my feeling btw...so maybe I´m wrong...and this comment reflects my feelings).
I think the people, who voted "yes" solidarise with Daniel, because he is now still "one of them" . So my guess is, that the real cold shower for Daniel will come later...around and mostly after the wedding. Then he´s on the other (upper class) side, but has still his roots, and then ppl will chalk every mistake and will start to deal with him.
I think this upper class-thing is a reason, why Daniel Collert hasn´t enjoyed more acceptance within the Swedish people, than Daniel Westling (who seems for other things for some ppl inappropriate). But then (1994-2001) I haven´t followed Swedish news, the internet was still in children´s shoes and Victoria was not directly in the "wedding age", so I can´t say for sure, what ppl really thought on Daniel Collert. Maybe ppl like Yennie can say more...
Those were my 2 cents to the topic...maybe others (Swedes and non-Swedes) don´t share my opinion. And want to express this (?)

BTW I remember also polls, in which it was asked, if Victoria should be allowed to marry Daniel W. (or if she should be allowed to marry, whomever she wants) and always around 80-90% voted for "yes". So I would say Victoria´s statement is just theoretically and it´s only up to Victoria and Daniel, if they want to exchange rings one day...

 

[Lena]

So my guess is, that the real cold shower for Daniel will come later...around and mostly after the wedding. Then he´s on the other (upper class) side, but has still his roots, and then ppl will chalk every mistake and will start to deal with him.

To quote my own person ...I should not be so negatively...and so I will add, that I guess Daniel would become accepted (as much as a prince or princess can be accepted...) after a few years.

 

[Alexandria]

Thanks for your input and opinon Lena.

To quote my own person ...I should not be so negatively...and so I will add, that I guess Daniel would become accepted (as much as a prince or princess can be accepted...) after a few years.

My original question was based loosely on the very warm and inviting reception the Danes seemed to have for ("mere") Mary Donaldson. She was a normal girl and while there was quite a lot of sentiment online from people who didn't like her, felt she was a gold digger or felt that she was only interested in a title, the Danish people seemed to not share these sentiments at all and really seemed to embrace her.

I wasn't sure if Daniel being Swedish born had a leg up in that he wasn't a foreigner and spoke the language and knew the culture, etc.

 

[fromEU]

The latest poll was made from Expressen and they asked "Will Daniel be a good prince". And of 8136 persons 67% voted "yes" and 33% "no". Even though such polls are not 100% representative, I guess they though reflect the opinion of the people at the moment. The thing is...I´ve the feeling, the Swedish people don´t really care about Daniel Westling. You can´t find much on him in the net and also the daily tabloids write more about why Daniel can´t be prince, than about a wedding. Also the international press is reluctant, more so than in the times with Daniel "the cute one" Collert (Hey, I´m biased ). Even before the german tabloids got a "lockjaw" they haven´t seen Daniel as serious candidate. And I guess that´s still the general feeling..."not a serious candidate" (it´s also mostly my feeling btw...so maybe I´m wrong...and this comment reflects my feelings).
I think the people, who voted "yes" solidarise with Daniel, because he is now still "one of them" . So my guess is, that the real cold shower for Daniel will come later...around and mostly after the wedding. Then he´s on the other (upper class) side, but has still his roots, and then ppl will chalk every mistake and will start to deal with him.
I think this upper class-thing is a reason, why Daniel Collert hasn´t enjoyed more acceptance within the Swedish people, than Daniel Westling (who seems for other things for some ppl inappropriate). But then (1994-2001) I haven´t followed Swedish news, the internet was still in children´s shoes and Victoria was not directly in the "wedding age", so I can´t say for sure, what ppl really thought on Daniel Collert. Maybe ppl like Yennie can say more...
Those were my 2 cents to the topic...maybe others (Swedes and non-Swedes) don´t share my opinion. And want to express this (?)

BTW I remember also polls, in which it was asked, if Victoria should be allowed to marry Daniel W. (or if she should be allowed to marry, whomever she wants) and always around 80-90% voted for "yes". So I would say Victoria´s statement is just theoretically and it´s only up to Victoria and Daniel, if they want to exchange rings one day...

Expressen also had a poll where they asked “Would you see Victoria as Queen”. 6787 voted and 28% said ”No” and 72% said ”Yes”. I think it’s safe to say that the 72% also are monarchists. Now I know those two pools can not be put directly together, but if 67% voted “Yes” to Daniel being a good prince, then it is quite a big amount of the people who is also for the monarchy. So this shows that Daniel could be a good choice for Victoria, if it’s important for her that her boyfriend is loved=accepted by the Swedish people. But the thing is that before a wedding she will never know if Daniel is loved by the Swedish. In fact she will never find a boyfriend that is loved by the people, because the Swedish people won’t know what to love, before they have seen and heard him in action and that can not happen before after a wedding. So the only thing she can do is believe in her own judgement and go by her own gut feeling and take the chance herself.

Mary wasn’t loved either before the engagement. She seemed likeable, but she wasn't loved. Frederik was loved and she was accepted with a poll before the engagemant where about 80% said she would probably be good queen. But at that time they of course couldn’t be sure. Frederik just had to believe in Mary himself and he did. The Danish people(of course not everyone) slowly began to love/like Mary during engagement period and especially since the wedding, because they could now see her in action and together with Frederik. I think the same more or less happened to all the other crown princesses Letizia, Maxima and Mette Marit. Their (now) husbands also believed in them and took a chance and it all turned out very well. That is also why we shouldn't judge too hard on Daniel on the basis on being a Gym owner, a small amount of pictures and "anonymous friends and people close to the family" He could turn out to be really great.

So to Victoria if you read this board: Don’t be so insecure. Just go for it. If your people like you, then they will also like your choice.

http://www.expressen.se/expressen/jsp/polopoly.jsp?a=295695

 

[Lena]

Expressen also had a poll where they asked “Would you see Victoria as Queen”. 6787 voted and 28% said ”No” and 72% said ”Yes”. I think it’s safe to say that the 72% also are monarchists. Now I know those two pools can not be put directly together, but if 67% voted “Yes” to Daniel being a good prince, then it is quite a big amount of the people who is also for the monarchy. So this shows that Daniel could be a good choice for Victoria, if it’s important for her that her boyfriend is loved=accepted by the Swedish people. But the thing is that before a wedding she will never know if Daniel is loved by the Swedish. In fact she will never find a boyfriend that is loved by the people, because the Swedish people won’t know what to love, before they have seen and heard him in action and that can not happen before after a wedding. So the only thing she can do is believe in her own judgement and go by her own gut feeling and take the chance herself.

Mary wasn’t loved either before the engagement. She seemed likeable, but she wasn't loved. Frederik was loved and she was accepted with a poll before the engagemant where about 80% said she would probably be good queen. But at that time they of course couldn’t be sure. Frederik just had to believe in Mary himself and he did. The Danish people(of course not everyone) slowly began to love/like Mary during engagement period and especially since the wedding, because they could now see her in action and together with Frederik. I think the same more or less happened to all the other crown princesses Letizia, Maxima and Mette Marit. Their (now) husbands also believed in them and took a chance and it all turned out very well. That is also why we shouldn't judge too hard on Daniel on the basis on being a Gym owner, a small amount of pictures and "anonymous friends and people close to the family" He could turn out to be really great.

So to Victoria if you read this board: Don’t be so insecure. Just go for it. If your people like you, then they will also like your choice.

[url="http://www.expressen.se/expressen/jsp/polopoly.jsp?a=295695"]http://www.expressen.se/expressen/jsp/polopoly.jsp?a=295695[/url]

Good post. -Well, I hope she will go for him, when she is in love with him...and that she wouldn´t be influenced by others...but IMO (the "romantic" in me) a woman of 28 years would always go for the guy, as long as she´s really in love with him (When I was 12 I had a boyfriend...and the others didn´t like him. So I tried to get rid of him. But he was madly in love with me and so I had to try plan B and have locked him up for a while in the attic of the school...an other dark chapter in the life of Lena...today I wouldn´t do this again...esp. not when I would be in love...see this anecdote here as little "illustration").
I don´t mean, what we had before (that e.g. her father would never accept her boyfriend as husband) but that e.g. ppl would have their doubts about Daniel and that she wouldn´t try to prove them wrong.
Hm, I´m not sure, what to think in the case of Mary. I remember that the place in front of the castle was filled with many enthusiastic ppl on the engagement day. Would the Swedes really be as happy for them and would do the same? And when not, then maybe just because he´s a guy...and a Swede (?)

And yes, maybe he will prove us wrong and is a funny, very likeable and educated guy (I´ve often met ppl, who haven´t attended university or even hadn´t the permission to attend university, because they haven´t attended the "high school", and who had at the same time a deeper knowledge, had read more books and could talk better about the most complicated things than some guys, who have quit university with top grades...)

 

[Alexandria]

Mary wasn’t loved either before the engagement. She seemed likeable, but she wasn't loved. Frederik was loved and she was accepted with a poll before the engagemant where about 80% said she would probably be good queen. But at that time they of course couldn’t be sure. Frederik just had to believe in Mary himself and he did. The Danish people(of course not everyone) slowly began to love/like Mary during engagement period and especially since the wedding, because they could now see her in action and together with Frederik.

I think I have the same memory of Mary pre-engagement -- that the Danes very much liked her, and that Mary fever hit its pitch when the engagement was announced and escalated and went from strength to strength in the run up to the wedding to now with a baby on the way. I don't recall the majority of the Danes not liking Mary or not being enthusiastic about her from the get go.

Was Silvia liked by the Swedish people before her engagement to Carl Gustav?

So the only thing she can do is believe in her own judgement and go by her own gut feeling and take the chance herself.

So to Victoria if you read this board: Don’t be so insecure. Just go for it. If your people like you, then they will also like your choice.

I think at 28 she should take a chance. She has been with Daniel for 3+ years and I think that at this age, as she has had other boyfriends, she would know what works for her in a relationship and what doesn't. I'd go for it at 28!

Well, I hope she will go for him, when she is in love with him...and that she wouldn´t be influenced by others...but IMO (the "romantic" in me) a woman of 28 years would always go for the guy, as long as she´s really in love with him (When I was 12 I had a boyfriend...and the others didn´t like him. So I tried to get rid of him. But he was madly in love with me and so I had to try plan B and have locked him up for a while in the attic of the school...an other dark chapter in the life of Lena...today I wouldn´t do this again...esp. not when I would be in love...see this anecdote here as little "illustration").

Another piece to the Lena puzzle! I think it's hard not to be influenced (even a little) by others no matter what your age and your personality. And given that Victoria's role is very dependent on the Swedish people's support, I think the public's perception and acceptance of Daniel would be very important to Victoria. That being said however, I think one reaches an age where the agreement or acceptance of others is less important. I know that when I was younger, in my teenage years, it was very important to me to have the right clothes, the right hair, the right shoes, even the right boyfriend, and to fit in with everyone else. But as I've gotten older and become more confident in myself (though I have always been full of self-confidence!), what others think of me matters less and less. It is a great relief to not worry about what others think of you -- you can really cut loose and half so much more fun when you are less self-conscious about yourself!

 

[Danielle]

(When I was 12 I had a boyfriend...and the others didn´t like him. So I tried to get rid of him. But he was madly in love with me and so I had to try plan B and have locked him up for a while in the attic of the school...an other dark chapter in the life of Lena...today I wouldn´t do this again...esp. not when I would be in love...see this anecdote here as little "illustration").

Goodness me, Lena. What a story! Ha ha ha. I would've (and probably still would) do the same thing. I am a stalker-magnet, so I have plenty of interesting little stories. Scary, but interesting.

 

[Lena]

Another piece to the Lena puzzle! I think it's hard not to be influenced (even a little) by others no matter what your age and your personality. And given that Victoria's role is very dependent on the Swedish people's support, I think the public's perception and acceptance of Daniel would be very important to Victoria. That being said however, I think one reaches an age where the agreement or acceptance of others is less important. I know that when I was younger, in my teenage years, it was very important to me to have the right clothes, the right hair, the right shoes, even the right boyfriend, and to fit in with everyone else. But as I've gotten older and become more confident in myself (though I have always been full of self-confidence!), what others think of me matters less and less. It is a great relief to not worry about what others think of you -- you can really cut loose and half so much more fun when you are less self-conscious about yourself!

Figuratively spoken: Yes, one little dirty puzzle (stone/piece) next to the many other pink and light ones I agree so much. It´s really getting easier...As you have said it´s hard not to be influenced...even now...but I would say big decisions are now made of my own (even though I´m interested in the opinion of close people)

Hm, I must say the deeper we dig into this topic, the more I get my doubts, if they really marry. For me it was pretty clear, because they date for 3.5 years and because Victoria´s friends are married or are going to marry.
But one can also argue, that the crown princesses (who have like Victoria to fulfill the thing with the heir for the throne) were almost all over 30, when they married. Victoria´s mother was also over 30 and this Silfverschiöld-bunch also doesn´t/didn´t seem to hurry (Carl is 40, Christina was nearly 33, Helene is still not married). Then one can also say "already 3.5 years of relationship, but still not engaged"...ok, these are all just figures and statistics and it´s not just that, what makes me suspicious...it´s just a feeling (mabye based on statements and behaviour?) that there´s something "rotten".
Just a current feeling...maybe I would change my mind, when Daniel would be with Victoria at the birthday show...

Goodness me, Lena. What a story! Ha ha ha. I would've (and probably still would) do the same thing. I am a stalker-magnet, so I have plenty of interesting little stories. Scary, but interesting.

This cries for an international self help group!
Well, slowly I learn to deal with the problem...but I´ve still the problem to be too nice to ppl and not to make clear statements out of the fear, that I could hurt them. This leads then to it, that I have to disappoint them and/or hurt them more, than I would have done, when I would have said in the beginning how the facts are