Victoria will choose the Throne over Love

[Danielle]

Yes, the throne is very important, but isn't your own happiness as well? I'm not saying I would give up the throne for some loser guy who I've only known a week; but then again, it's such a big sacrifice. Oh, I don't know. The more I think about it, the more confused I become. This isn't just a black-and-white case. I don't think we can really say either.

[Lena]

Originally Posted by Danielle

I'm thinking about this another way; why would your 'beloved' be unacceptable? If he was a jailbird junkie (I've been using this description too much recently) then I wouldn't give up the throne. Your family, despite your protests, often knows best, so if they're unacceptable [your future husband] by their standards, chances are they're not a good catch.

Yes, you are right. I´ve also thought about this. But when one wants to keep this question theoretically, then one also has to include other factors. E.g. what would be, when the monarch would have a personal feeling of antipathy against the partner of his daughter, because of his family? For example when two families would be at feud with an other family. Well, feud is a hard word...the times of Romeo and Juliet should be over But it could easily be, that a Monarch doesn´t get along with the family of the partner.
Or what would be, when the parent of the partner would be a criminal? I wonder, how the situation would have looked, when the dutch government would have had hard evidences for mass murder against Maxima´s father...and when the media would have spread and illustrated that with pics, documents etc.
And as I´ve mentioned before, the person himself could be against a future as Royal...

[mixer2002de]

Originally Posted by Lena

BTW in the wikipedia-entry it´s said:
Daniel Westling är den person som utpekas som kronprinsessan Victoria av Sveriges fästman.
Daniel Westling is the person who is identified as crown princess Victoria of Sweden´s fiancé...

I hope and I hope not, that Daniel himself has made this entry

Yeah thats hard to cope for man. I think thats the toughest thing to be identified via your girl friend/wife so to top it. He is nothing on his own hes just an add on to the female. Isn't it that way with spiders too where it is quite risky to be a man?

[mixer2002de]

Originally Posted by Lena

Tztztztztz...stop to undermine my poll, Mixer-darling. The TRF-members should vote, what THEY would do in such a situation.
And to come to your example of Victorias opinion: How do you know, that this is really her opinion/solution?

I just do not think than Victoria sees this in a negative view. She is just quite self confident: So her opinion is be strong enough to take me with the throne or forget it and f*** off. or be treated as a boy toy
:p

Btw. imho fitness trainers are perfect boy toys !

[Danielle]

Originally Posted by mixer2002de

Yeah thats hard to cope for man. I think thats the toughest thing to be identified via your girl friend/wife so to top it. He is nothing on his own hes just an add on to the female. Isn't it that way with spiders too where it is quite risky to be a man?

Yeah, it seems as if a lot of men have trouble with that. It's not that they don't love their partners, but men like to 'be in charge' and be more dominant. I think it's also hard to be identified, as you said, through your partner. I wouldn't want to be known as 'someone's wife/girlfriend'; I would want to be known occasionally by my name, and for doing something independently of my partner. Too often couples do things to be accepted by each other (like with Katie Holmes and this Scientology business) instead of holding onto some of the things they like doing, for example, and are thereby 'conglomerated' together. Or, as you said, one becomes the add-on to the other. :(

[Danielle]

Originally Posted by mixer2002de

Btw. imho fitness trainers are perfect boy toys !

... or gardeners.

[ap3]

Hmm, interesting: the VG and Aftonbladet both showed love winning strongly over throne/career. Yet our poll shows throne winning by a small margin (at the time of this email).

Could it because we who frequent this site love our royalty and the royals are a part of our lives (in a fun way) than the majority of the VG and Aftonbladet pollers don't feel?

I have to admit I voted throne. I think the throne/your country is probably so much a part of your life and self-identity as crown prince(ss). I couldn't imagine turning my back on it anymore than I, even as a commoner, could imagine turning my back on my Indian heritage (and its culture and societal responsibilites) even though I live in America now. When I am with someone I expect them to respect my background (even when its not convenient) just as I respect the other's background. Conversely I can't imagine falling in loving someone who doesn't love my background/all of me. And if part of me is a throne, well I'm sure he'll just have to suck it up and suffer through it! :)

[mixer2002de]

Originally Posted by Danielle

... or gardeners.

Oh a girl with knowledge. You can get a husband and keep the gardener but not get a husband and keep a fitness trainer expect you marry the fitness trainer.

[Lena]

Originally Posted by mixer2002de

I just do not think than Victoria sees this in a negative view. She is just quite self confident: So her opinion is be strong enough to take me with the throne or forget it and f*** off. or be treated as a boy toy
:p

Btw. imho fitness trainers are perfect boy toys !

Well maybe...and maybe Victoria is like the black widows, that you have described (well, I guess she wouldn´t eat him...but maybe in a more figurative way )...but one has to ask oneself, if she really wants a guy, who does her bidding.
I don´t know those two...but I guess the transformation from being the boyfriend to the prince consort can be quite hard. And in a way the three last prince consorts aren´t the best example. I remember, that prince Claus went into the marriage with Beatrix with some naive ideas...for example he has thought, that he could live with Beatrix abroad and could go on with his work as diplomat. Claus and Beatrix were very much in love and are still one of my favourite couples, but one can hardly say, that Claus was a happy consort.
A wife, who wouldn´t watch such a development with care and anxiety must be quite ignorant and cold-and I don´t see Victoria as such a person.


BTW I just remember, that I wasn´t too happy about a comment of Victoria about Daniel. She said "I´m happy, that anyone dares to date me"...actually I should see "I wouldn´t give up the throne..." as progress (???)

[Lena]

Originally Posted by mixer2002de

Oh a girl with knowledge. You can get a husband and keep the gardener but not get a husband and keep a fitness trainer expect you marry the fitness trainer.

Why shouldn´t it be possible to keep the fitness trainer? Also a married woman needs training...however this would be
"Gardener"...here one has watched "Desperate housewives"?
I think we shouldn´t forget the bodyguards and the cavalry captains.
BTW is a "boy toy" that what the models were for the crown princes?

[mixer2002de]

But Daniel also could forget to work on as fitness trainer. Even if I think its strange that a prince consort cannot have a job. A presidents man could go working and nobody would care. Do you think a prince consort should be allowed to have a ordinary job? At least as long as his wife is not yet queen.

[Lena]

Originally Posted by ap3

Hmm, interesting: the VG and Aftonbladet both showed love winning strongly over throne/career. Yet our poll shows throne winning by a small margin (at the time of this email).

Could it because we who frequent this site love our royalty and the royals are a part of our lives (in a fun way) than the majority of the VG and Aftonbladet pollers don't feel?

I have to admit I voted throne. I think the throne/your country is probably so much a part of your life and self-identity as crown prince(ss). I couldn't imagine turning my back on it anymore than I, even as a commoner, could imagine turning my back on my Indian heritage (and its culture and societal responsibilites) even though I live in America now. When I am with someone I expect them to respect my background (even when its not convenient) just as I respect the other's background. Conversely I can't imagine falling in loving someone who doesn't love my background/all of me. And if part of me is a throne, well I'm sure he'll just have to suck it up and suffer through it! :)

You made a very good point here! Those Royals surely focus extremely on their history and roots...so it´s maybe really part of their identity as you say.
I just hope one doesn´t forget the roots of Daniel.

And to the tabloid-readers: they maybe represent more the "average" citizen...but I also guess they haven´t spent many thoughts on the topic and voted as the current attitude of the mainstream-society suggests it. Well, I´ve also voted for love, but maybe I´m also part of the mainstream

[Danielle]

Originally Posted by Lena

Why shouldn´t it be possible to keep the fitness trainer? Also a married woman needs training...however this would be
"Gardener"...here one has watched "Desperate housewives"?
I think we shouldn´t forget the bodyguards and the cavalry captains.
BTW is a "boy toy" that what the models were for the crown princes?

Well, I would personally only have a female fitness trainer. Have you seen some of those men? I saw some guy outside the Art Gallery here running kick-boxing lessons during the lunchtime (every man and his dog goes jogging [or does some kind of physical activity] around Sydney during their lunch-break. You have to dodge sweaty businessmen in shorts and no shirt as they run past you. Sometimes it's not that bad :p). Anyway, yes, John from DH.

[mixer2002de]

Insetiable Lena would keep a whole bunch of men. tztztzt....

[Lena]

Originally Posted by Danielle

Well, I would personally only have a female fitness trainer. Have you seen some of those men? I saw some guy outside the Art Gallery here running kick-boxing lessons during the lunchtime (every man and his dog goes jogging [or does some kind of physical activity] around Sydney during their lunch-break. You have to dodge sweaty businessmen in shorts and no shirt as they run past you. Sometimes it's not that bad :p). Anyway, yes, John from DH.

Hm, I wouldn´t mind to have a male trainer...a super trained female would show me all the time, how far away I´m from my goal.
Every man...Australia sounds like a paradise for Victoria
Danielle, would you actually want Daniel as your trainer? I wonder, if he can "kick asses"...that´s exactly what I would need. When he would say me, that we make it as I would want it, then I would lift one time a barbell of 200 grammes and then I would order juice and a coffee at the bar

[Lena]

Originally Posted by mixer2002de

Insetiable Lena would keep a whole bunch of men. tztztzt....

Of course...I also need a computer scientist for my computers...

[mixer2002de]

Originally Posted by Lena

Of course...I also need a computer scientist for my computers...

I would be satisfied with a single crown princess :)

[Danielle]

Originally Posted by Lena

Hm, I wouldn´t mind to have a male trainer...a super trained female would show me all the time, how far away I´m from my goal.
Every man...Australia sounds like a paradise for Victoria
Danielle, would you actually want Daniel as your trainer? I wonder, if he can "kick asses"...that´s exactly what I would need. When he would say me, that we make it as I would want it, then I would lift one time a barbell of 200 grammes and then I would order juice and a coffee at the bar

Hmm, not exactly paradise. There are those hairy, 'overweight' men who also like to remove their shirt. No, I would prefer this guy as my trainer. ha ha ha. Yes, I would need to be 'motivated' to exercise too. Mmm, juice. Yummy. There are a lot of juice bars at gyms now.

[Lena]

Originally Posted by Danielle

Hmm, not exactly paradise. There are those hairy, 'overweight' men who also like to remove their shirt. No, I would prefer this guy as my trainer. ha ha ha. Yes, I would needed to be 'motivated' to exercise too. Mmm, juice. Yummy. There are a lot of juice bars at gyms now.

Hahahaha...this guy is cute. And he seems to have a lot of humour...an other attribute a trainer would need, when he would train with me. Is this "any" guy or a known person?
But it´s said Daniel should also have humour...not that I´ve noticed it, but it´s constantly said (next to statements, that he´s a "social genius")
I guess in your "oh, now we have winter, it´s down to incredible cold 20 °C"-country that with the juice is even more spread (?). At least you should have fresh fruits all year round (?)

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by Danielle

I'm thinking about this another way; why would your 'beloved' be unacceptable? If he was a jailbird junkie (I've been using this description too much recently) then I wouldn't give up the throne. Your family, despite your protests, often knows best, so if they're unacceptable [your future husband] by their standards, chances are they're not a good catch.

Exactly. I don't think Swedes are mean and unsympathetic so as to think that Victoria doesn't deserve love and happiness. I am sure Swedes would be a bit lenient if Victoria's choice of mate has small flaws ( like everyone does). However if Victoria's family and/or the people found her choice of mate truly unacceptable then Victoria should let him go.