Crown Princess Victoria at the Ball of the Order of Innocence: 1997

[Dennism]

While the beauty of Victoria never diminishes, these photos do make me sad though.

[Lena]

Originally posted by Dennism@Nov 16th, 2003 - 3:04 pm
While the beauty of Victoria never diminishes, these photos do make me sad though.

In a way you´re right (she´s always beautiful), but this reminds me of a story in a german tabloid (actually a more respectable one) in 1997, which published these photos with the (stupid) headline: Victoria-so beautiful, so thin, so ill. And then the "journalist" wrote a long story about Victoria´s look ("Victoria has changed from a roly-poly to a beautiful swan...blalbla) and after that he wrote (in the article&#33, that the court has confirmed her eating disorder. *sigh*

[sexyswede]

who are those girls in the white dresses?
and whats the point of the ball?

[Lena]

The white girls are leaders, which introduce you in the order.
And as much as I know, the sense of the ball was to wed the members of Sweden´s high Society (at the time of the foundation rather aristocrats) with each other. So Innocence is probably equal with virginity. Nowadays it´s just a tradition. But maybe I´m wrong and the founder of the order searched just for an opportunity to party.
Another question, why have some of the guys sashes and some not (e.g Jonas)?

[moosey60]

Ew, ay, ay, ay Victoria looked unhealthy. She looked like skin on a stick. Well, at least she got over her eating disorder. She looks nice and plump these days.

[moosey60]

Originally posted by Lena@Nov 16th, 2003 - 3:42 pm
The white girls are leaders, which introduce you in the order.
And as much as I know, the sense of the ball was to wed the members of Sweden´s high Society (at the time of the foundation rather aristocrats) with each other. So Innocence is probably equal with virginity. Nowadays it´s just a tradition. But maybe I´m wrong and the founder of the order searched just for an opportunity to party.
Another question, why have some of the guys sashes and some not (e.g Jonas)?

Those fellas probably had sashes 'cause they were royal or they were given royal orders at some point.

[Lena]

Originally posted by moosey60@Nov 16th, 2003 - 4:28 pm
She looks nice and plump these days.

hm, "plump"? Ok, maybe in comparison with the horrible pics in this thread, but I wouldn´t say she´s plump, at least not in the definition of plump (=full-figured/chubby...), that I know

[Dennism]

Well, we don't have a word in English for the size that Victoria is now. Besides "perfect".
She isn't plump. Bigger than she was then and that is good.

[Lena]

Dennism you seem to know a lot about philology/origin of words!
Hm, what about slim/sporty/ to describe her shape...? Or maybe well-fed, but that just in comparison with the old pics. Or what about "athletic"?

[Dennism]

Well, sporty is good. Athletic too but we don't always use them when it comes to just looks. Athletic is used for body shape sometimes but normally it is used for a really toned person like a track and field star or a swimmer. Not a baseball player! For sure most soccer players are athletic. Slim is tough. It's all about connotation or the suggesting of a meaning of a word beyond what it literally says. For example, the word "snake" literally one of those small creatures which lives on the ground and is shaped like a garden hose. However, snake can indicate something "evil" or dangerous. And connotation can be on a personal or a public scale. Say for example, a name. While for most people a name like, I don't know, Victoria, may be pleasant enough. They may not know anyone with that name. The name may suggest "Royalty" from the former Queen of England(in the US) or for victory for those with a knowledge of Latin and it may suggest something or someone else to people like me. Connotation is often a meaning or suggestion from a cultural thing. While the word "Whitewater"(shudders), may suggest to some people the idea of being on a raft or canoe down a river with the whitewater. But it may also remind them(often connotations get their meanings or comprehension because people remember), the financial scandal involving Bill and Hillary Clinton. Same thing with the various scandals since Watergate(just the name of a rather large hotel in Washington) that have happened since that have been called a name which ends with the suffix -gate. Monicagate, Travelgate, Iraqgate, Gardengate, Frontgate, BillGate and so on and so forth. But I go digress...

Slim is usually used for people closer to the shape of any number of Hollywood starlets, Julia Roberts, Cameron Diaz, or Charlize Theron. But the problem is that the next words on the scale(oooo, double meaning) are words like "Chubby" or "plump" which have a negative connotation or in reality, just are negative meanings. In fact, we used to say in English, and some still do, "pleasingly plump" for women, not really men, who have a good number of pounds or kilograms on them but who are still gorgeous. It may be the face or their nice personality adds to their charm. Or they just may be "Big boned" like we say here. Yes, I do have a love of words. It's all Greek to me! Anyway for now, I will just say once again that "perfect" is the best adjective I can think of to describe Victoria.

[Lena]

An very interesting post! And you´re right words have a different meaning for different people and it differs from culture to culture/time era to time era. If we would send Victoria to several tribes in Africa, they would probably call her skinny, because they have a more womanly (fatter) ideal. And if we would send her to France, they would probably call her big-boned, because women are generally more "petite" in France. And if we would send her to the old Greeks, she would probably be just right, because they had just such an ideal (trained, little muscular women/men).
Personally I would call her "slim, but muscular". Hollywood-starlets would I rather call thin, and some skinny (e.g Calista Flockhart). People like Mary D. would I call "fragile", she´s taller than Victoria, but she seems to have another bone structure. Even in her skinniest times Victoria didn´t look fragile, rather emaciated.

In english you have the word "Victory", so isn´t the first thing, which comes to a mind of an US-inhabitant (probably for the Brits it´s different) is "to win something", when someone says "Victoria"?

BTW The only thing which I like in these pictures is the hair length. The dress (independent from the skinny girl in it) looks cobbled together from a tailor-trainee in the first term!

[Dennism]

Yes, Victory but I meant directly. Mary has a fragile look on her face to begin with and I hope she does put on some pounds. She was looking rather skinny there. I wouldn't call her muscular because it's for women a lot more muscular than Victoria.

[Helen88]

Originally posted by Lena+Nov 16th, 2003 - 3:29 pm--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lena @ Nov 16th, 2003 - 3:29 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Dennism@Nov 16th, 2003 - 3:04 pm
While the beauty of Victoria never diminishes, these photos do make me sad though.

#And then the "journalist" wrote a long story about Victoria´s look ("Victoria has changed from a roly-poly to a beautiful swan...blalbla) and after that he wrote (in the article&#33, that the court has confirmed her eating disorder. *sigh* [/b][/quote]
Well, nowadays it seems to be beautiful to be sick... :(

[Dennism]

Sadly Helen is right. That perception is out there. Revive Ophelia&#33;

[moosey60]

...Wow, well why don&#39;t we just say that Victoria&#39;s "healthy" and leave it at that.

[Lena]

Because this is a DISCUSSION board and btw I´m improving my english (ok, an little bit egoistic reason ) through Dennism´s and KC´s knowledge.
But yes, she SEEMS to be healthy.

[hrhcp]

I for one, don&#39;t enjoy looking at the pictures of Victoria in the year of 1997.

I for one, am glad that Victoria has faced up to her eating disorder, and is the better of it.

I for one, am one of a legion in her "peanut gallery" cheering her on in her duties and accomplishments.

[Lena]

Of course she doesn´t look healthy on those pics. But this is a PART of Victoria´s life. Yes, she says now, that she was "ugly" at that time. But I think the only one, who is allowed to say that is her.
I wonder if you said such things even then (in 1997)...(and I´m quite sure, that she gets feedback) just imagine, that you become aware, that people are thinking you are ugly. And I wonder if you say the same, about an anorexic you spot on the street.
yes, she´s healthy now, but she IS the person, who has damaged her body that way in 1997, and (I know, that she probably don´t read here) I know, that I would feel ashamed, when someone would talk about my behaviour and would describe my look in offending words (skin on stick...don´t enjoy looking at the pictures). The tabloids did the same in 1997, they just wrote about her eating disorder, but no one cared about the girl behind the disorder or behind the crown princess.
Yes, I´ve done the same, but I will stop now-Amen

[Lena]

Originally posted by King Christian@Nov 17th, 2003 - 7:32 pm

I for one, am one of a legion in her "peanut gallery" cheering her on in her duties and accomplishments.

I could say now, that you were involved in a lot of superficial discussions in the last weeks, but I don´t :P

[hrhcp]

Superficial ?
I think you are mistaken. Humour, yes. :flower: