When Do Ex-Royals Cease To Be Royal ?

[duke of poliganc]

and i believe that the greek royal family shouldn't be discussed here with or with out the throne of greece they are all legally HH prince/ss of denmark even the sayn-wittgenstein-berleburg's hold the style HH in denmark

 

[duke of poliganc]

even the Luxembourg royal family was elevated from HGDH to the more higher style of HRH which came from Grand Duchess Charlotte marriage to a royal prince from a Non-Reigning House Prince Felix of Bourbon-Parma

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

and i believe that the greek royal family shouldn't be discussed here with or with out the throne of greece they are all legally HH prince/ss of denmark even the sayn-wittgenstein-berleburg's hold the style HH in denmark

The berlebergs are HSH in Germany and HH in Denmark correct?

 

[duke of poliganc]

The berlebergs are HSH in Germany and HH in Denmark correct?

yes they are HSH everywhere else else except in denmark the children of princess benedikte were givin the style of HH I don't know about prince richard but her children are indeed HH in denmark

 

[Pranter]

Under the existing LPs, George would have had the HRH anyway as he is the eldest son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales. Without the 2012 LPs Charlotte would have been born as Lady Charlotte Mountbatten-Windsor and only become Princess Charlotte when her grandfather becomes King.

The new LPs were issued so that the future monarch would be born with HRH – as they knew that the changes to the Succession to the Crown Act were coming which would have seen a first born girl become the future monarch. It wouldn’t have made sense for a future monarch to be born as Lady Charlotte Mountbatten-Windsor and then her younger brother be born with HRH – hence the new LPs.

Harry’s children won’t be HRH’s in the present reign without new LPs if the rumours of a smaller royal family are correct it is possible that his won’t have HRH at all. Charles may not like it but he can’t have it both ways – if he is to strip Andrew’s girls then he can’t give it Harry’s children – who would also only be the children of the second son of the monarch.

Place in the line of succession has nothing to do with HRH's either as there are a number of HRH's below non-HRH's in the line of succession e.g. Princess Alexandra has over 30 non-HRH's ahead of her in that line.

Honestly I don't see Charles stripping his nieces of their HRH. He would be reviled for it.


LaRae

 

[maria-olivia]

The Prince of Schaumberg divorced twice but his second wife Nadja keeps her tittle.
The ex begum Inaara is now Princess of Leiningen . She devorced the Prince who has now a third wife who is the Princess. She is born Holby and should be called Mrs Gabrialla Holby.

 

[Stefan]

The Prince of Schaumberg divorced twice but his second wife Nadja keeps her tittle.

As of now Fürst Alexander and Nadja are not divorced. They are separated but had said then that they wanted to remain on a friendly base.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

In German and a number of other European languages there is a linguistic discintion between a prince of a royal family (Prinz - I only know the German so I'm using that as an example) and a prince of the nobility (Furst - it was a rank below duke/herzog), since English titles are based on the French system this linguistic discintion gets lost in translation.

Prinz and Fürst were used by both reigning and noble families, for example, the title of Liechtenstein's reigning prince is Fürst von und zu Liechtenstein.

i think there is never a time a person cease to be royal as long as he is descended in the male line from a marriage that is approved by the royal house law . grand duchess Maria Vladimirovna mother Princess Leonida Georgievna Bagration-Moukhransky was a royal princess in her own right and the last Georgian king from whom she descended in the male line was Constantine II who died in 1505

In spite of being treated as a princess by other ex-royal families, I doubt that she was looked upon as royalty in Georgia, which was under Soviet rule.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The Prince of Schaumberg divorced twice but his second wife Nadja keeps her tittle.
The ex begum Inaara is now Princess of Leiningen . She devorced the Prince who has now a third wife who is the Princess. She is born Holby and should be called Mrs Gabrialla Holby.

She is not Prinzessin zu Leiningen as a title, she only wants to be referred to a title which belongs to a gentleman she once was married to, like Sarah Ferguson, like Raine McCorquodale. A practice which is completely weird to me: you want to break the marriage, you want to divorce but hey... you want to keep your former husband's title and surname?

 

[Osipi]

She is not Prinzessin zu Leiningen as a title, she only wants to be referred to a title which belongs to a gentleman she once was married to, like Sarah Ferguson, like Raine McCorquodale. A practice which is completely weird to me: you want to break the marriage, you want to divorce but hey... you want to keep your former husband's title and surname?

From where I'm sitting here in the US and from experience, it is usually the case in a divorce that a woman still retains her married surname. It is, however, becoming more and more an option to request via the divorce decree to have a woman's maiden name legally restored. Many women now also choose to not change their maiden surname to their husband's upon marriage.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The berlebergs are HSH in Germany and HH in Denmark correct?

HSH is really a lousy translation of different German understandings like Durchlaucht and Erlaucht, two total different meanings.

It is the same with the lousy translation Grand Duke for Великий князь (Latin: Magnum Princeps). In most languages it is correctly translated as Großfürst (German), Grootvorst (Dutch), Grand-prince (French), Gran príncipe (Spanish) which indeed means: Grand Prince and not Grand Duke.

The lousy English translation Grand Duke is used for those magnificent princes from Tsarist Russia (Imperial Highnesses) ánd for the Grand Dukes of tiny Luxembourg which originally even did not held a royal rank... But tja... English, a world language, and so the absolutely incorrect translations spread over the globe.



Originally a Prince of Monaco, just a nobleman on a rock overlooking the sea, was Serenité. This translates as Your Serene, like Your Honour, Your Excellency, etc. When the thrones collapsed and the Grimaldis found themselves under the handful remaining reigning Houses, they started the form Altesse Sérénissime (Serene Highness) to upgrade a bit.

 

[duke of poliganc]

but that is not the case they aren't HH in denmark because of different German understandings . The children of Princess Benedikte are styled as Highnesses in Denmark by an Order in Council. Elsewhere they are Serene Highnesses by courtesy.

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

In the long run I think most of these formerly reinging royals simply stick with the use of titles and honourifics simply because they can't be bothered to some up with new names - if nobody's taking it seriously in the first place than what's the harm of humouring them one in a while? Are republicans really that insecure?

 

[duke of poliganc]

In the long run I think most of these formerly reinging royals simply stick with the use of titles and honourifics simply because they can't be bothered to some up with new names - if nobody's taking it seriously in the first place than what's the harm of humouring them one in a while? Are republicans really that insecure?

there have been lately a trend especially in the reigning royal houses about disliking royal titles and almost seeing it as burden which i don't know why while royal houses like Luxembourg , denmark , sweden and liechtenstein are more proud of being royalty and having titles and their approval rates are in the 80/90% . being modern royals and broaching the public doesn't mean you must hate your title which reflect your ancestor history to be more close to people . and those who say that the children of the monarch as long as their parents on the throne only or only the heir to the throne should have a royal title then you are better off with a republic with only a title for the reigning

 

[Curryong]

Luxembourg, Denmark, Sweden and Leichtenstein are much smaller countries than somewhere like Great Britain for example and I think that helps a more personal relationship between the population and the Royal family endure, (although apparently the Swedish throne is not perhaps so secure.)

This may also assist ex German royal Houses where the descendants are still active in the region with which they've always been associated, being present at important local events, supporting charities etc.

 

[duke of poliganc]

Luxembourg, Denmark, Sweden and Leichtenstein are much smaller countries than somewhere like Great Britain

that's isn't a reason as you said Luxembourg, Denmark, Sweden and liechtenstein are much smaller countries but in luxembourg there are 36 individual hold the HRH and the 37 on his/her way liechtenstein have 31 who hold the HSH and all the male holder of those titles are gonna pass it to their descendants .the united kingdom has only 21 holding the style of HRH 10 of them are the last of their branches to hold a royal title or even any title at all .

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

HRH is nothing. It is not a title. It is a form of address. Like Your Honour. Like Your Eminence. Like Your Excellency. Like a member of Parliament is a Right Honourable. In most countries this sort of formalities have disappeared from daily life. Here and there you can still see actual traces of it. For an example in Spain you can see parking lots with a sign thqt these are reserved for the "Excmo. Ayuntamiento" (the excellent members of the city council).

The very actual titles are Prinz von Hannover, gravin van Limburg Stirum, Duque de Medina Sidonia or Marchese Pallavicini. When we look to lists, it looks quite a lot. In reality there have never been so few titled persons in Europe as today. And there have never been more Europeans than now. All these barons, princes, marquesses and lordships are less than 0,001% of the European population, which at the same time is a reason why they still attract attention, amazement and curiosity.

 

[Denville]

it is hardly "nothing" it is an indicateion of a certain rank.

 

[Dee Anna]

I think it means a lot less than it would have done in yester year.

Back in the day it was believed that royalty did hold a higher position, granted to them by a higher being. I don't think that's a general belief anymore.

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on where you stand) the families granted this ranking still exist and short of saying - thanks, but I'm out of here! - still have a role to play as laid down centuries ago.

For example, I doubt Kate Middleton, when pronounced the wife of William felt elevated in any spiritual sense to highness although probably did in the worldly status sense.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

it is hardly "nothing" it is an indicateion of a certain rank.

In Belgium, when speaking to the King, the form of address is not "Your Majesty". It is "Sire". The Queen is just Madame (Mevrouw). Princes of the blood royal are addressed as "Monseigneur" (My Lord).

Their very neighbours in the North, the Netherlands, are always addressed as "Majesteit" and princes of the blood royal as "Koninklijke Hoogheid" (Royal Highness).

So it is not an indication of rank either. The Belgian royals are not differently ranked than their Dutch neighbours. It is a difference in culture. Note that the highest ranked royals in France were often known as "Monsieur". No name, no title. And everyone knew he/she was speaking about the Dauphin.

 

[maria-olivia]

Queen Mathilde is not Madame/Mevrouw as the Queens before She is Sa Majesté/Majesteit.

 

[Countessmeout]

Its a matter of formal or informal address. Take QEII, yes she is Her Majesty, but also informally as Ma'am. Depending on the situation both are correct and respectful. In Belgium, His and her majesty or Sire and Madam.

 

[Denville]

Well I understand the correct thing to do with British royals is to say "Your Majesty" or "your Royal Highness" in the first sentence, and then go to Sir or Ma'am...But she is still "Your Majesty" and Queen even if called Ma'am.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Jerome Napoleon Bonaparte (1805-1870) was the son of Elizabeth Patterson and Jerome Bonaparte, the brother of Napoleon I. Were Jerome Napoleon and his mother ever considered as Royals or Imperial? His father was not a French Prince until 1806.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Jerome Napoleon Bonaparte (1805-1870) was the son of Elizabeth Patterson and Jerome Bonaparte, the brother of Napoleon I. Were Jerome Napoleon and his mother ever considered as Royals or Imperial? His father was not a French Prince until 1806.

They never were. Napoleon I held the marriage of his brother Jerome and Elizabeth Patterson to be illegal and their child to be illegitimate. Napoleon III legimitized their son in 1854 but abstained from giving him imperial titles or succession rights. His half-siblings contested the decision and the Bonaparte family council demoted him to illegitimate status in 1856, but allowed him to continue bearing the Bonaparte name.

Here is an article about the Bonaparte-Patterson family.

Les Bonaparte-Patterson - Napoléon III

In the long run I think most of these formerly reinging royals simply stick with the use of titles and honourifics simply because they can't be bothered to some up with new names - if nobody's taking it seriously in the first place than what's the harm of humouring them one in a while? Are republicans really that insecure?

In Japan the formerly noble families and formerly imperial branch families do not use titles in public. The formerly imperial families use the former names of the branches as their surnames.