The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #21  
Old 03-20-2021, 10:03 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Posts: 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozen Royalist View Post
(...)

Japan's imperial family would probably be a lot more revered assuming if WWII never happened. I think Japan probably could've held onto Taiwan, Southern Sakhalin, the Kuril Islands, and Micronesia without issue but Korea is a whole different matter. I suppose a Korean monarchy restoration is possible in the events of independence and depending on the circumstances and the timing of said independence.

There is no way that an independent Manchuria/Manchukuo, let alone as a monarchy under a restored Qing Dynasty, could've survived easily because of Manchu nationalism being so artificial and the old Qing monarchy being unpopular unless Emperor Puyi really tried and succeeded at being one heck of a statesman and the Japanese actually letting him do what he needed to do in this situation.

Considering that Mongolia was between Russia and China, Mongolia as a monarchy could only survive if Mongolian independence is fully respected, which isn't too likely in my opinion.
I doubt it.
For one, invading China was already on the plan since before Edo period, even the idea was already there since Heian even when it's still Ming with Korea as stepping stone. World War or not, Sino-Japanese War would happen. After China, expanding to other areas in Asia would be very likely since you know, the Emperor was God and Japan was the centre of the world (prolong isolation is not good for their mentality). And by mid 19th century, China was an important market for UK, French, US, and Russia. So "conflict" with those "barbarian" would also happen sooner or later (kind of "revenge" of 1858 Treaties). Basically war is inevitable for Japan.

Furthermore, the self-sacrifice for Japanese was on different level compare to westerner. They would (read: must) give everything for the Emperor. Everything! During WWII, the ordinary Japanese in Japan suffered as bad as people they're invaded in other Asia countries. Now, British had George V visiting the troops or Princess Mary's hospital work. Meanwhile, even though every morning Japan's troops had to "salute" to the direction of Kyoto every morning, the Emperor would never visit them as a gesture of support nor any Princess would leave the palace giving comfort to peasant. Not going to happen, no way.

In any way, Japan would also lose this war. The only difference maybe the atomic bombs, so the war possibly would last longer. For ordinary Japanese, it might be something like sengoku jidai all over again, maybe worse. In that case, it would only bring more resentment towards the imperial family, particularly the emperor.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-21-2021, 04:30 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Midlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,495
Just in terms of monarchies I think long term trends meant that Russia & Turkey (once the Ottoman Empire went) were likely to become republics.

Both the Ottoman & Austrian Empires were eventually going to be swept away by nationalism. There were already lots of cracks by 1914. I'm not sure what would be the fate of the Hapsburgs. Presumably emperors of a territory similar to modern day Austria. Or possibly Austrians might have wanted to become part of the German Empire?

Ireland might possibly have found peace within the UK with home rule or it might just have been a step towards inevitable independence. There would presumably have been no Easter Rising.

Without Vimy Ridge & Gallipoli what would have happened to national identity in the dominions?

And what about Poland? Carved up by three empires. A great & historic European people without a country of their own. It would surely have gained some sort of freedom in the C20th. After all once the Austrian controlled part became free then there would have been enormous pressure on German & Russian controlled Polish territory.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-22-2021, 01:49 AM
CyrilVladisla's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Conneaut, United States
Posts: 6,615
If World War One had not occurred and Hungary had separated from Austria, should a different Habsburg be King of Hungary or a Hungarian nobleman be chosen to be King of Hungary?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-22-2021, 03:03 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,007
I don’t believe that by 1919 Hungary wanted anything more to do with the Habsburg dynasty. And the country seemed to be perfectly happy as a republic between the wars, though admittedly extremely right-wing.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-22-2021, 03:30 AM
Muhler's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 14,089
There is a segment that hasn't been mentioned so far: The royal families of the colonies and protectorates.
Malaya.
Jordan.
Morocco.
Persia. (Strictly speaking independent, but considering how the Soviets brushed everything aside, Persia would hardly have been able to maintain independence in the face of an invasion and might conceivable become a contested area between Britain and Russia.)
Iraq.
Egypt.
Afghanistan.
And last but by no means least Ethiopia. Would a non-fascist Italy have tried again?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-22-2021, 04:27 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,084
I think the Ottoman Empire was on the way out by 1914, even if there hadn't been a war, but would Britain and France have got so involved in the Middle East if there hadn't been a war? If not, then it's unlikely that the royal dynasties of Iraq and Jordan would have been established.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-22-2021, 05:39 AM
JR76's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Posts: 3,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
I don’t believe that by 1919 Hungary wanted anything more to do with the Habsburg dynasty. And the country seemed to be perfectly happy as a republic between the wars, though admittedly extremely right-wing.
It's hard to say what would have happened but I guess it depended on the way Hungary got its independence. The main reason a Habsburg didn't become king after the war was because of allied pressure and not because the Hungarians didn't want one. The country did officially remain a monarchy until 1946 under the regency of Horthy so it's not unlikely that we'd seen a king ascend the throne like we did in Spain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
I think the Ottoman Empire was on the way out by 1914, even if there hadn't been a war, but would Britain and France have got so involved in the Middle East if there hadn't been a war? If not, then it's unlikely that the royal dynasties of Iraq and Jordan would have been established.
Good point. If France and the UK didn't carve up the Middle East many of today's states in region wouldn't be there. Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Israel are all based on decisions made by the colonising countries. A breakup of the Ottoman empire would have lead to much conflict but most likely we'd still have a large Christian population in Anatolia, on the Aegen and Black Sea costs, around and in Istanbul and in Northern Mesopotamia. There would not have been the gigantic population transfer between Greece and Turkey leading to a Muslim Northern Greece and in the absence of the Turco-Greek war no need for Andrew and Alice to flee Greece and with that no years spent in exile for their son Philip who then most likely would never have had the chance to meet a certain Elizabeth.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-22-2021, 09:38 AM
Muhler's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 14,089
Israel, yes.

No WWII, no Holocaust. (Although there would still be discrimination and probably even a pogrom from time to time.)
Millions of Jews still living in Europe, making their mark in so many ways.
No Israel, even if the Ottoman Empire fragmented. It would be "Next year in Jerusalem" every year.

Someone would have taken over in the power vacuum of a fallen Ottoman Empire. Russia is contender number one!
Britain contender number two, to curb Russia.
Germany that already had established connections with the Young Turks prior to WWI might have had a considerable influence in Turkey itself.

No WWI would have meant that the mechanization of Europe, in regards to cars and planes would have been delayed. Perhaps by twenty years?

Would Lindberg have crossed the Atlantic at the time he did, if it had not been for the technological leap during WWI? Or would that have been delayed by a decade or two as well?

What about Japan? One of the reasons why Japan became a militarized society with territorial ambitions (for fear of USA in particular) was that they gained significant territories in the Pacific as a result of being on the winning side during WWI. Would Japan have entered Manchuria? Would Russia? Would there be a Second Russo-Japanese War over Manchuria?
Could the Russian monarchy survive a second defeat if that became the result?
Would China have been carved up by the Western powers, as was already happening with gunboat-policy there?

Interestingly, Tibet would have been left in peace I think. Too remote to make it worth the effort.

Would Latin America have continued to accept the Monroe Doctrine, with the odd Banana Wars? Or would USA have found itself mired down in endless conflicts in Latin America - that was supported by Europe?
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-22-2021, 09:48 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 9,639
Would Poland have regained independence?
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-22-2021, 01:35 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biri View Post
Would Poland have regained independence?

It would depends what would happen to Russai. But probably independent Poland, either republic or monarchy, would be pretty much under German influence.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 03-22-2021, 02:31 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: A place to grow, Canada
Posts: 890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biri View Post
Would Poland have regained independence?
Piłsudski only managed to do it by using WWI to Batman Gambit literally everyone, with the small side effect that he was considered completely untrustworthy afterwards.

Considering he wasn't even a formal soldier, did someone that intelligent and far-seeing have a peacetime version of doing this? Maybe. Probably. But would it have worked...? Who knows?
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Monarchs & Royals During WWI & WWII? KikkiB Royalty Past, Present, and Future 63 10-31-2020 06:13 AM
What if the Emperor Had Been Dethroned after WWII? KathyMoore Japanese Royal History 44 08-17-2019 01:53 PM
What would've happened to Russia had it not entered WWI? icedemigod12 The Imperial Family of Russia 62 07-22-2017 05:05 AM
If Edward VIII hadn't abdicated, who would be monarch today? kalnel British Royals 211 05-21-2016 05:58 PM




Popular Tags
#royalrelatives #royalgenes abu dhabi american american history ancestry baby names british british royal family british royals brownbitcoinqueen carolin china chinese ming dynasty asia asian emperor royalty qing cpr dresses duchess of sussex duke of sussex earl of snowdon edward vii family tree general news thread george vi gradenigo hereditary grand duchess stéphanie history hochberg house of windsor hypothetical monarchs imperial household interesting introduction jewellery jewelry kids movie list of rulers luxembourg maxima monarchy mountbatten nepal nepalese royal family pless princess alexia (2005 -) princess chulabhorn princess dita princess eugenie princess laurentien princess of orange queen elizabeth ii queen victoria resusci anne royal balls royal events royal family royal jewels royal spouse royalty royalty of taiwan royal wedding russian court dress spain stuart sussex swedish queen thai royal family tradition unfinished portrait united states united states of america wedding gown welsh


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:44 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021
Jelsoft Enterprises
×