Royal Cyphers, Coronets, Arms and Monograms

[Diamondgal]

Cypher query

Hello there! Another new member here wondering if any of you kind people could help to identify the cypher on a piece of Jewellery we have?

It’s probably late Victorian period.

Many thanks in advance

[Karl Beining]

Handling some guns for an old collector and thought this place may be able to help ID the maker and/or the Royal connection if there is one.


On the Barrel

O. Bertram
Buchsenmacher (Gunsmith?)
Berlin

On the cap of the grip, magnificently engraved is a crown over a monogram

Thanks in advance!

[Muhler]

Congratulations on your first post.

Büschenmacher does indeed mean a highly skilled gunsmith. Who is able to design, build and modify weapons of a very high quality. An artisan.

When do you believe the weapon is from?
Is it flintlock or percussion?
What's the design?
Is it a duel pistol or a more general weapon? Or even a hunting pistol?

[Karl Beining]

Originally Posted by Muhler

Congratulations on your first post.

Büschenmacher does indeed mean a highly skilled gunsmith. Who is able to design, build and modify weapons of a very high quality. An artisan.

When do you believe the weapon is from?
Is it flintlock or percussion?
What's the design?
Is it a duel pistol or a more general weapon? Or even a hunting pistol?

Sorry, I really have no idea where to start with the who for, short of asking here :-)

I will add some more pictures, it is a 30 to 32 Cal Centerfire Parlour Pistol which should help narrow down a time. 32 S&W Short fits in the chamber perfectly with some chamber length to spare, I don't have any 32 S&W Long handy to try, not that I have any intention of firing it :-)

[Karl Beining]

I should note, I removed the barrel from the action and can find no proofs outside the makers mark on the top of the barrel. Hammer and barrel release look to have worn Gold plating on them, frame is silver? plated brass, grips are Ivory

[Muhler]

So metal cartridge.
That combined with the design of the hammer suggests to me that it is after 1865/1870.

No makers name suggests to me it's a pistol made/converted by the gunsmith.

I suggest you contact German collectors clubs. Waffensammler.
Or gun-traders: Waffenbörse.

There is even an American guy on YouTube ForgottenWeapons. He is very serious and has an impressive knowledge about European gunmarks.
I seriously suggest you try and contact him.
https://www.youtube.com/user/ForgottenWeapons

When you find out something, please let us know.

[Karl Beining]

Originally Posted by Muhler

So metal cartridge.
That combined with the design of the hammer suggests to me that it is after 1865/1870.

No makers name suggests to me it's a pistol made/converted by the gunsmith.

I suggest you contact German collectors clubs. Waffensammler.
Or gun-traders: Waffenbörse.

There is even an American guy on YouTube ForgottenWeapons. He is very serious and has an impressive knowledge about European gunmarks.
I seriously suggest you try and contact him.
https://www.youtube.com/user/ForgottenWeapons

When you find out something, please let us know.

Thanks, I am friends with Ian @ Forgotten Weapons, I should reach out to him as well, I suppose the gun is less the mystery to me, and I am mostly intrigued by the potential Royal it was made for, and who's Monogram is on the gripcap. Makers name is O. Bertram marked atop the barrel above Büschenmacher

[Muhler]

If indeed it belonged to a royal, that could be pretty much any Central European royal family.
Or any German Fürstenhaus/principality - and there were a lot of them around prior to 1871!

[rancor]

I would like to give this discussion some new life. I just bought this gun. I too would like to know whose monogram this is.

Thank you!



—Matt

[Grafschaft]

Hi,
I hope someone can help me with this monogram "LS" or "SL" under a royal crown.

I have tried a number of mainly German Kings, Dukes and Princes but to no avail.
Many thanks in advance for your help and expertise,
P

[NobilityResearcher]

Dear Forum Members

Would anyone know to which member of Royalty or Nobility of pre-1918 IMPERIAL GEREMANY this cypher / monogram belonged to?

Many Thanks to ALL in advance!
Dave.

[KingdomCome]

Originally Posted by monarchist-us

I was bored and drew up some cyphers in Illustrator for the future reigns of Charles and William. I'm hoping they each get their own unique cyphers and don't just do a derivative of the current EIIR cypher.

Obviously completely speculative, but what do you all think?

(I didn't draw any of the letters myself, they are from fonts.)

Apologies if this is the wrong thread for this.

Came here to say that your concept is very close to Charles III's official royal cypher which has been revealed. The only difference is that he went back to use the Tudor Crown instead of St. Edward's Crown.

[KingdomCome]

Originally Posted by monarchist-us

I was bored and drew up some cyphers in Illustrator for the future reigns of Charles and William. I'm hoping they each get their own unique cyphers and don't just do a derivative of the current EIIR cypher.

Obviously completely speculative, but what do you all think?

(I didn't draw any of the letters myself, they are from fonts.)

Apologies if this is the wrong thread for this.

Came here to say that your concept is very close to Charles III's official royal cypher which has been revealed. The only difference is that he went back to use the Tudor Crown instead of St. Edward's Crown.

[CyrilVladisla]

Originally Posted by monarchist-us

I was bored and drew up some cyphers in Illustrator for the future reigns of Charles and William. I'm hoping they each get their own unique cyphers and don't just do a derivative of the current EIIR cypher.

Obviously completely speculative, but what do you all think?

(I didn't draw any of the letters myself, they are from fonts.)

Apologies if this is the wrong thread for this.

I especially like monarchist-us's cypher for the future reign of King William V. The use of calligraphy makes the lettering extremely fancy.

[Tatiana Maria]

Here is the College of Arms' press release on the cypher of the new King Charles III of the United Kingdom (first posted by Warren in the king's general news thread):

https://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/n...5-royal-cypher

[Mbruno]

I am not sure if that has been answered yet, but has Prince William taken up new arms as Prince of Wales? Will his arms be the same as those previously borne by his father as PoW?

I know that may be a difficult question, but it would be nice to have some clarification on the current armorial of the Prince of Wales, the Duke of Sussex and respective families when applicable. I see there is some confusion among web sources about that.

[An Ard Ri]

The Royal College of Arms has not updated his Coat of Arms as Prince of Wales

https://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/n...prince-william

[W.Y.CII]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_ZL...nel=LinusBoman

The graphic design channel on Youtube Linus Boman discussing the cyphers of Charles III and other reigning monarchs as well as some former British monarchs, solely from design perspective. (Can't unsee it after heard his comment regarding W-A's monogram at 11:08 .)

[CyrilVladisla]

I like the new monogram for Queen Camilla.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-ThifU0CpE

[doro]

Monogram of Princess Estelle of Sweden



Monogram of Prince Oscar of Sweden



Monogram of Princess Sofia of Sweden