Micronations

[Danielle]

Ever since I saw this documentary on TV, I have become interested in micronations. I was going to post something about that documentary yesterday, but to my surprise, I found a very good article* in this morning’s newspaper. I have scanned the article, but it hasn’t come out very well and the files were so big, that I had to break them up into smaller articles. It also may be confusing to read and it’s mainly about Australian micronations, but I hope someone finds it interesting. Warning: there are a few swear words in the article.

* Good Weekend - The Sydney Morning Herald Magazine

A definition a micronation (from Wikipedia.org):
Micronations - which are sometimes also referred to as cybernations, fantasy countries, model countries, new country projects, and online nations - are entities that resemble independent states, but for the most part exist only on paper, on the Internet, or in the minds of their creators; a small number have also managed to extend some of their operations into the real world. When they do touch on the real world, they converge to some degree with other organizing paradigms that offer, or seem to offer, political or infrastructural independence of some sort.

The term micronation, which literally means "small nation", is a neologism originating in the 1990s to describe the many thousands of small unrecognized statelike entities that have mostly arisen since that time. The term has since also come to be used retrospectively to refer to earlier unrecognized entities, some of which date to as far back as the 19th century. Supporters of micronations use the term "Macronation" for any "real" sovereign nation-state.

Micronations generally have a number of common features:

1. Many micronations assert that they wish to be widely recognised as sovereign states - but they are not so recognised by established states.
2. Micronations are quite small, both geographically and in terms of membership. They rarely have more than a few thousand members - and the vast majority have no more than one or two active participants.
3. Micronations typically issue formal instruments such as passports, stamps and currency, and confer titles and awards - but these are rarely recognised as having any form of validity outside their own communities of interest.

These criteria distinguish micronations from imaginary countries, eco-villages, campuses, tribes, clans, sects, and residential community associations, which do not usually seek to be recognized as sovereign.

 

[Danielle]

More of the article:

 

[Danielle]

... and some more. I really apologise for the poor quality of the article. If I find a better one, I will post it. Sorry!

 

[Danielle]

Here are some links.

League of Micronations
Micronations
Micronations and sovereignty

 

[Lord Williams]

Cool!

Very Interesting!

 

[Lord Williams]

Look What I found

http://www.kingdomofvarennes.com/sitebuilder/images/KingLouisX-184x256.jpg

http://www.kingdomofvarennes.com/TheKing.html

 

[Danielle]

http://www.kingdomofvarennes.com/sitebuilder/images/KingLouisX-184x256.jpg
http://www.kingdomofvarennes.com/TheKing.html

Thanks! Here's another: http://www.geocities.com/kingdomofhanover/monarchy.html
On that site, there was information about the provinces: http://www.kingdomofvarennes.com/provinces.html They are all around the world, and it's strange to think that a 'kingdom; is run in that manner. I could become Le comtesse de Camelot. There are positions vacant.

 

[Lord Williams]

The Kingdom of Hanover has a new website, they don't use that old geocities site anymore. The new website is www.kingdomofhanover.com I should know, I am the former Heir to the Throne of Hanover, Prince Justin and now--its ironic but I am now the Heir to the Throne of Varennes, Msr. le Dauphin, SAR Prince Justin.

The King of Varennes(Louis I) was previously King of Hanover (James) until he wished to rule absolutely. Then he moved for greener pastures. Yes, Danielle I am a member of the Royal House of Marchmain. I have a signet ring with the Royal crest on it and so on. It is very interesting to be a part of. I have been involved with this since before I joined this board. Countess of Camelot is something that I do not know about . The Province of Camelot covers all the Kings subjects who reside in Great Britain, I believe.

It is very interesting, you would be most welcome.
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=95789&stc=1

 

[Danielle]

Thank you for the information. It's so interesting that you are part of a Royal House. What is it like? Are you given the ring on becoming a member of the royal house?

 

[Lord Williams]

House of Marchmain

The ring was commissioned by my own person with my own personal funds. It is great being a member of the Royal house and I take it quite seriously. I was very surprised when you gave the link to Hanover. That is a very old link from the Reign of Thomas I. I lived in Florida during that time, times have changed. Well, Danielle, if you wish to know anymore about my Family please don't desitate to ask.

 

[Lord Williams]

Lord Williams

Well, as a matter of fact, you just did offend me. That was a very insulting comment and I don't know how one could say that without meaning to be offensive.

First of all, I never "imagined" myself as a member of a Royal House. A community of like minded individuals, some of which consider micronations a hobby made it possible for me to receive the titles. I never assumed them or imagined them. For me it isn't really a hobby, I take it seriously and don't joke around about it too much. It may be smaller than England but the people recognized me as a Prince just the same. Who decides who is royalty. Its not a race and they are just spawned. There are no chemical or physical characteristics to being Royalty.

As to "mentally tiring", that is what insulted me. That implies that I am not of stable mind. Insulting, no other way to say that. Its not as if I go around my hometown and say that I am HRH Prince Justin of Hanover. Its not as if I wave when I am in a car or when I stand on a balcony. The main reason that I am royal is that I respect the title. I am chivalric and there is nothing wrong with that. But if you want to talk mentally tiring, look at other royals. I am more than likely saner than most of them.

I am also very monarchist. I may be an American and though I don't neccessarily see an American king in the near future, I want to see monarchy preserved around the world. It is an amazing form of government and I admire it.

Whether you intended to insult me or not, that was an insulting comment.

 

[Danielle]

I don’t think Reina meant her comments to be interpreted as offensive. No one is questioning your sanity, but the fact that you are titled as a prince, and you are not a member of an established royal family (Denmark, Belgium etc) or even a non-ruling family, (Yugoslavia or Bulgaria etc), is quite strange if you think about it. Most people, like myself, have not really investigated the whole idea of Micronations, so it’s new concept.

 

[Lord Williams]

Hrh

Danielle:

I don't know if she meant for it to be insulting but "mentally tiring" is not your average everyday question.

You have been quite kind and respectful when asking questions, for which I am grateful.

 

[semisquare]

queen of the castle

so i really can be queen of my own castle; does that mean i will be recongize by the other royal familie?
i think this subject is interesting because now anyone can be royal. do u think it will make the other royals behave better since they wont be so rare?

 

[Lord Williams]

micronations

No, all royal families might not recognize you. Also, even some micronations may choose not to recognize you.

 

[Danielle]

No, all royal families might not recognize you. Also, even some micronations may choose not to recognize you.

Why would they choose not to recognise you?

 

[Splodger]

Why would they choose not to recognise you?

It would depend on the basis of the Micronation and what it represented. Micronations are the collective of like minded people who form a national identity. This can either be a role-play game set in a fantacy land or a collection of 'real' people who identify themselves as a nation either by political/ethical ideology or territorial ideology who propose an alternative to an existing regime or representative of a small-sub-national identity such as the inhabitants of a village etc.

Micronations who see themselves as representing 'real' people as an alternative political existance than the established regime (e.g. if a group of monachists in america established micronation of The Kingdom of Manhatten) are less likley to recognise a 'fantacy' micronation (e.g. the Empire of Spongebob) whos territory is totaly imaginary. Micronations who take them selves less seriously and want to be a part of the international micronation comunity are likely to be more friendley than micronations who have a political agenda.

 

[Lord Williams]

micronatios

Exactly. You hit the nail on the head.

 

[Danielle]

It would depend on the basis of the Micronation and what it represented. Micronations are the collective of like minded people who form a national identity. This can either be a role-play game set in a fantacy land or a collection of 'real' people who identify themselves as a nation either by political/ethical ideology or territorial ideology who propose an alternative to an existing regime or representative of a small-sub-national identity such as the inhabitants of a village etc.

Micronations who see themselves as representing 'real' people as an alternative political existance than the established regime (e.g. if a group of monachists in america established micronation of The Kingdom of Manhatten) are less likley to recognise a 'fantacy' micronation (e.g. the Empire of Spongebob) whos territory is totaly imaginary. Micronations who take them selves less seriously and want to be a part of the international micronation comunity are likely to be more friendley than micronations who have a political agenda.

Oh thank you, Splodger. That's very logical and makes perfect sense.

 

[Von Schlesian]

Why would they choose not to recognise you?

In Australia (where many of these micronations physically exist), there is also the issue of the Australian constitution.

Section 124 of the Australian constitution states that:

"A new State may be formed by seperation of territory from a State, but only with the consent of the Parliament thereof, and a new state may be formed by the union of two or more States or parts of States, but only with the consent of the Parliament of the States affected."

This is a very clear statement, that unless the Parliaments of the states in which micronations exist in Australia, the micronations do not exist. That would be adequate for any legitimate Royal family to refuse to recognise a self-styled "Royal" family of a micronation.

But obviously the Australian constitution only speaks for the Comonwealth of Australia.

 

[Royalist0007]

How many of you have heard of this unrecognised monarchy,which became independent from both Western Australia & Australia on the 21st of April 1970? I know of it,as I used to collect stamps,but I am a serious numismatist (coin & banknote collector),who does have the set of banknotes & a few (albeit,extremely difficult to find) coins from this country.

Here is a link to the official website of the Hutt River Province Principality; www.huttriver.net .There's some very nice photos of Prince Leonard & his family.

Personally,I reckon that the Hutt River Province Principality should be recognised & admitted into full membership of the British Commonwealth.What do you think?

Aidan.

Here's a section for the coin & banknote collectors among you.I am a numismatist who specialises in collecting the coins & banknotes from across the British Commonwealth.

Here's a link to a forum that has discussions on this very subject; https://bcnumismaticforum.phpbbnow.com .

There are some very nice photos of a few coins depicting Queen Elizabeth II.

Aidan.

 

[Royalist0007]

Kingdom of Lundy.

Here's a section that will really interest the history buffs,especially those in the British Commonwealth,& any numismatists (coin & banknote collectors).It is about the self-declared Kingdom of Lundy,whose 'monarch',Martin Coles Harman issued his own coins in 1929.These coins,the 1/2 Puffin (which depicts a puffin's head) & 1 Puffin (which depicts a puffin standing on the ledge of a cliff) were issued by Martin Coles Harman as a way of asserting his independence.

Here's an article; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coins_of_Lundy .

Aidan.

 

[Royalist0007]

Principality of Hutt River.

Here's a section that will be of interest to a number of you,especially those from Australia.It is about the Principality of Hutt River (or 'Hutt River Province Principality' between 1970 & 2006).

The Principality has celebrated 37 years of independence from both Australia & Western Australia.

To mark this occasion & the Diamond Wedding Anniversary of Prince Leonard & Princess Shirley,a silver & gold cameo Proof $30 medal-coin has now been issued.Here's a link; Official Home Site of the Principality of Hutt River .

This is the first numismatic item since 2000,& the first to bear the inscription 'PRINCIPALITY OF HUTT RIVER' instead of 'HUTT RIVER PROVINCE PRINCIPALITY'.

Here's an article about the Principality; Principality of Hutt River - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .

Aidan.

 

[Ephram]

Is this the smallest country in the world with only 20 residents?

 

[Royalist0007]

Ephram,it is the smallest country in terms of population,but it is far bigger than the Vatican City in Rome in terms of land area.

Although it is an unrecognised state,it is a British Commonwealth monarchy in its own right.

Aidan.

 

[Warren]

"Hutt River" is neither a recognised state nor a recognised monarchy. It's really more of a nonsense.

 

[Royalist0007]

Warren,have you looked at the Principality of Hutt River's website yet? Prince Leonard actually used the Treason Act,1485 as a 'get out of jail' card to secede from both Australia & Western Australia.

Some Aussie government departments,such as the Australian Tax Office have already given de-facto recognition to say that Hutt River & its residents are exempt from things like Aussie taxation.

Here's a link; Official Home Site of the Principality of Hutt River .

I admire Prince Leonard for what he has done.

Aidan.

 

[Warren]

I think it highly unlikely that the ATO has given a tax-free status to anyone in Hutt River who has taxable income, whatever his website says. If income falls beneath the tax threshhold after allowable expenses and rebates, it's free of tax anyway, as it is for any Australian.

Good luck to "Prince" Leonard in his efforts to earn some cash through his business of producing novelty stamps and coins, but he can't be taken seriously.

 

[Royalist0007]

Warren,you should read this Australian Department of Territories document; www.brumbywatchaustralia.com/AUSTEO_SECRET.gif .This proves that Hutt River DOES have a legal status distinct from either the Commonwealth of Australia itself or the State of Western Australia.

Aidan.

 

[Prince of Chota]

Isn't the definition of a country that it be recognised by other countries? (which has been the problem for both Israel and N. Cyprus in the past). So if NOBODY recognises it...by my logic it isn't a country.

Silly micro-nations.

Look up the Principality of Sealand. That's quite a laugh, too.