General Questions About Royalty and Monarchies

[Somebody]

well there are many countries they rule in past but now they are dont give a daam about there countries

What monarchies are you specifically thinking about? In most cases their country did no longer want them as heads of states and ousted them, still the majority of royal families from former monarchies still try to maintain a meaningful connection with their country.

 

[Muhler]

Congratulations on your first posts.

In what respect?
The monarchies as an institution?
The constitutions in the various monarchies?
The royal families themselves?

 

[Denville]

well there are many countries they rule in past but now they are dont give a daam about there countries

What countries do you mean? Who doesn't give a damn about their countries?

 

[Suzzanah]

Let me try to answer. I am American also. Acknowledging a royal is always good. Bow, nod,lower your eyes or whatever is correct for the place and time. Do not attract attention to yourself. Royals in America often need more guards and travel in the open as it is safe here. If you do not know them go on about your business. Do not expect them to speak to you unless necessary. Answer them if spoken to. Do not open doors or anything for them but do not be rude. If you are make you might offer to open a door. In general it is better you enter so they know it is safe such as at a restaurant or store. Should they cut in line or need a table, you may let them take one first. Royals, American or not are all different but strive to be well mannered. There are exceptions. Most feel all people are equal as beings but they have special duties and thus royal rank. So they are different unique and royal. They are people also and often work long hours only to have things thrown at them or worse by crowds and paparazzi. Some have died because of it. Above all do not distract their guards and do not be rude yourself. Bad language and hand gestures are crude and unnecessary. Should you be invited to join then, do so if possible. It will be most rewarding. You represent America so do a good job. Most royals have years of education on is all, including protocol, music, politics and culture. All royals have rank even if retired or not currently serving. There are also regnant or ruling royals. They have higher rank than others. Often the servants are royals as well. Remember even the queen has served the poor. You might not recognize some royals among us.

 

[Countessmeout]

Sorrry what????

The servants certainly are not royals as well. If you see a royal in public they won’t have servants following them around. They may have a lady in waiting but those are assistants not servants. And they certainly are not royal. Beyond the queens they are rarely even titled. Kate’s certainly is not.

Royals don’t work long hours and serve the poor. Passing them off as needing to be given special treatment as they work long hours is a joke.

If the royals are among you and you are not meant to know don’t now or Avery eyes. They are there on their down time. Act like you normally would and go on with life. If a prince decides to go to Starbucks he can wait in line. That’s those manners you say they have.

They are these exceptionally over educated idols you make them out to be.

 

[Muhler]

If I understand your post correctly, I agree with you.
It doesn't only apply to royals IMO but to all who have a high public profile.
It's bad manners to approach, photograph, point etc at people, when they go about their private business.

 

[EuroJpnJoRoyals]

A question

I always wonder how did King Edward VII and King George VI, grandfather and grandson,who were both called “Bertie”, to know which one was calling when they were at the same room back then?

 

[SLV]

Since the elder was the King, I doubt they would call him by his first name.

 

[Prinsara]

I always wonder how did King Edward VII and King George VI, grandfather and grandson,who were both called “Bertie”, to know which one was calling when they were at the same room back then?

There probably wasn't too much overlap, because George and May would have called young Bertie "Bertie" and the PoW/King "Papa". The only other person who would have called them both "Bertie" would have been the Princess of Wales/Queen Alexandra, and as she was known to enjoy a joke, I'm sure she worked something out and laughed a lot (or, potentially Queen Victoria as well when young Bertie was a small child, but that was certainly other people's problem, not Victoria's!... He possibly got a bit of "young Bertie".).

Personally, I call them "Bertie One" and "Bertie Two", on occasion.

 

[EuroJpnJoRoyals]

There probably wasn't too much overlap, because George and May would have called young Bertie "Bertie" and the PoW/King "Papa". The only other person who would have called them both "Bertie" would have been the Princess of Wales/Queen Alexandra, and as she was known to enjoy a joke, I'm sure she worked something out and laughed a lot (or, potentially Queen Victoria as well when young Bertie was a small child, but that was certainly other people's problem, not Victoria's!... He possibly got a bit of "young Bertie".).

Personally, I call them "Bertie One" and "Bertie Two", on occasion.

Yes you’d answer what I want to ask, I am curious about how QV and Queen Alexandra would call them

 

[EuroJpnJoRoyals]

Since the elder was the King, I doubt they would call him by his first name.

Yeah after 1901 surely it was, but how about those years overlapped, 1895-1901?

 

[Prinsara]

Yes you’d answer what I want to ask, I am curious about how QV and Queen Alexandra would call them

Well, it isn't on record that future-George VI was ever called anything other than Bertie, or Albert formally, not even to distinguish him from his grandfather. I could see Victoria perhaps using "Albert" or "young Albert" for him, but I think "young Bertie" is also a possibility. Or perhaps just "no, not you" for whichever one!

Alexandra was well-known for infantilizing her own children in addition to being slightly quirky and silly at times, so she may have even taken it into "Little Bertie" territory when he was not so little (she lived till he was thirty), or worse.

 

[Mbruno]

In the European monarchies, the most exclusive orders of knighthood are those that are awarded in a single class (or grade). Nowadays, orders that fall under that category include:

1. The Order of the Garter and the Order of the Thistle in the United Kingdom.
2. The Order of the Golden Fleece in Spain.
3. The Order of the Elephant in Denmark.
4. The Order of the Seraphim in Sweden.

Previously, the Order of the Annunziata in the Kingdom of Italy and the Order of the Holy Spirit in the Kingdom of France were also examples of orders in the same group. All five active orders listed above and awarded by reigning monarchs are actually pretty exclusive; however, as I have noted in a different post, there is a considerable difference in their numbers of current living members (excluding the Sovereign, but including members of the Royal Family and foreign Knights). According to the Wikipedia (possibly imprecise):

1. Order of the Golden Fleece: 16 (including 2 Spanish royals and 10 foreign royals).
2. Order of the Thistle: 19 (including 4 British royals).
3. Order of the Garter: 38 (including 9 British royals and 8 foreign royals).
4. Order of the Elephant: 66 (including 8 Danish royals and 34 foreign royals).
5. Order of the Seraphim: 88 (including 17 Swedish royals and 35 foreign royals).

Those differences may be explained in part by the different policies each monarch uses to decorate: (i) presidents of republics; (ii) foreign Queens consort, princes consort, Crown Princes/Princesses, and other junior princes or princesses; (iii) first ladies of republics; and (iv) members of their own Royal Family or Royal House.

In the next post, I present a summary of the practice followed by the current monarchs of Denmark, Sweden and the United Kingdom, and by the current and the previous monarch of Spain, with a few doubts and questions I have, which hopefully more knowledgeable posters may be able to clarify (note that practice in other previous reigns may differ considerably).

 

[Mbruno]

In the next post, I present a summary of the practice followed by the current monarchs of Denmark, Sweden and the United Kingdom, and the current and the previous monarch of Spain, with a few doubts and questions I have, which hopefully more knowledgeable posters may be able to clarify (note that practice in past reigns may differ considerably).

See attached file for the detailed reply.

 

[EuroJpnJoRoyals]

May I ask, if female descendants of Windsors, like Princess Anne’s son Peter, wants to change his surname to Phillips-Windsor, do they need permission from The Queen?

Also, is Windsor must be put behind their original surname, like Mountbatten-Windsor ?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

May I ask, if female descendants of Windsors, like Princess Anne’s son Peter, wants to change his surname to Phillips-Windsor, do they need permission from The Queen?

Also, is Windsor must be put behind their original surname, like Mountbatten-Windsor ?

You may be interested in reading and/or continuing the past discussions about this question in the thread Questions about British Styles and Titles:

https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...sh-styles-and-titles-258-268.html#post2344837
https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...sh-styles-and-titles-258-234.html#post2284685

 

[Prinsara]

Yeah after 1901 surely it was, but how about those years overlapped, 1895-1901?

Actually, I just read the other day (in a book by Peter Townsend, of all people) that when he was born and it was known he was to be "Albert", his grandfather the then-Prince of Wales wrote to his son and daughter-in-law and said "You might like to call him 'Bertie'".

So while we may not know exactly how they were differentiated, we know who suggested/started it!

 

[EuroJpnJoRoyals]

Royal Nicknames

May I ask is there any posts about The British Royal family members “Nickname through the Ages?”

I would like to know more about their nicknames from Queen Victoria’s”Drina”to nowadays.

If there are any posts about this, could any one tell me?

Thanks.

 

[Denville]

Not sure if Drina was really a long standing name for Victoria.. I think her mother called her "Vickelchen".. ie little Vicky...
Her daughter was called Vicky or *****.
Edward VII was called Bertie as was his grandson....

 

[Osipi]

William's nickname when he was small was "Wombat".

 

[EuroJpnJoRoyals]

Not sure if Drina was really a long standing name for Victoria.. I think her mother called her "Vickelchen".. ie little Vicky...
Her daughter was called Vicky or *****.
Edward VII was called Bertie as was his grandson....

Yes I know that, I am actually more interested to those “Side branches”like Victoria’s other children’s nickname, Louise, Princess Royal’s two daughter’s nickname something like that.

 

[Denville]

Yes I know that, I am actually more interested to those “Side branches”like Victoria’s other children’s nickname, Louise, Princess Royal’s two daughter’s nickname something like that.

Well, Helena was Lenchen, Beatrice was Bee, Louise (Duchess of Argylle) was Loosy. Some of hte grandchildren had pet names too, such as Willy for the German Kaiser, Moretta for his sister Victoria, Mossy for Margaret of Prussia and I think Sossi for Sophie Princess of Prussia.
Arthurs 2 daughters were called Daisy and Patsy....
Helena's children were Christian (Christle) Albert (Abby) Helena Victoria (THora) and I think Marie Louise was known as Louie.

The Waleses were Albert Victor (Eddy) George V (Georgie) Louise (Loo), Victoria (Toria) and I dont know if Maud had any nickname.
Re the children of Louise Duchess of Fife, I dont know of them being called by abbrevations or pet names...but they are not well known.

Alice had 7 children, most of whom had a pet name. Ernest was Urn, Friedrich Frittie, Elisabeth - Ella, Alix - Alicky, and Marie was May....
Alfred's daughters were Marie (Missy), Victoria Melita (Ducky) Alexandra (Sandra) and Beatrice (Baby Bee).
those are all I can remember for now....

 

[EuroJpnJoRoyals]

Well, Helena was Lenchen, Beatrice was Bee, Louise (Duchess of Argylle) was Loosy. Some of hte grandchildren had pet names too, such as Willy for the German Kaiser, Moretta for his sister Victoria, Mossy for Margaret of Prussia and I think Sossi for Sophie Princess of Prussia.
Arthurs 2 daughters were called Daisy and Patsy....
Helena's children were Christian (Christle) Albert (Abby) Helena Victoria (THora) and I think Marie Louise was known as Louie.

The Waleses were Albert Victor (Eddy) George V (Georgie) Louise (Loo), Victoria (Toria) and I dont know if Maud had any nickname.
Re the children of Louise Duchess of Fife, I dont know of them being called by abbrevations or pet names...but they are not well known.

Alice had 7 children, most of whom had a pet name. Ernest was Urn, Friedrich Frittie, Elisabeth - Ella, Alix - Alicky, and Marie was May....
Alfred's daughters were Marie (Missy), Victoria Melita (Ducky) Alexandra (Sandra) and Beatrice (Baby Bee).
those are all I can remember for now....

Thanks for that! Queen maud of Norway was nicknamed”Harry”because of her tomboyish.
I knew one of Louise(Princess Royal)’s daughter, Maud was called Maudie.

Do you know Queen Victoria’s in-laws’ nicknames? I knew Queen Alexandra was called “Alix”,did others have?

 

[Denville]

Thanks for that! Queen maud of Norway was nicknamed”Harry”because of her tomboyish.
I knew one of Louise(Princess Royal)’s daughter, Maud was called Maudie.

Do you know Queen Victoria’s in-laws’ nicknames? I knew Queen Alexandra was called “Alix”,did others have?

Friedrich of Prussia was Fritz, Alexandra Edwards wife was Alix, Arthur's wife Louise was "Louischen", Henry Beatrice's husband was Liko, John Louise's husband I think was called Ian... I dont know of any others. Basically so many of the German royals were inter related and had the same names.. so there were many nicknames floating around

 

[SLV]

Queen Margaretha of Denmark is called Daisy, is that a common nickname for the British RF too?

 

[Prinsara]

Queen Margaretha of Denmark is called Daisy, is that a common nickname for the British RF too?

She's called Daisy because she was named after her British grandmother. It is or once was a semi-common nickname for "Margaret", but there haven't really been any others royally.

Thora was additionally nicknamed "Snipe". First by her brothers, than Alix and her part of the family apparently picked it up.

 

[LauraS3514]

Alice had 7 children, most of whom had a pet name. Ernest was Urn, Friedrich Frittie, Elisabeth - Ella, Alix - Alicky, and Marie was May....

Alix was also called "Sunny" because as a child she had a happy disposition.

 

[polofemilimc46]

Hello everyone, Im new here!

I would like to know more about this law, where does it originate and why was it invented at all?


"Another odd rule for the reigning monarch is that he or she owns all of England's unmarked swans - as well as dolphins, whales, and sturgeons in the coastal waters of the UK. The rule dates back to the 1300s, and the whales and dolphins in question are classified as "fishes royal."

 

[Futurist]

Alternate History Question: W/o the Fall of France, does the Italian monarchy last?

Here's an interesting alternate history question for you: Without the 1940 Fall of France, does the Italian monarchy survive up to the present-day? Or does the Italian monarchy still eventually get overthrown once Fascism will collapse in Italy, possibly after Mussolini's death (which will probably be sometime between 1950 and 1980 in this scenario)?

Also, another question: If the Italian monarchy indeed survives up to the present-day, then the Savoy-Aosta branch are going to be the big losers since the Italian succession laws will almost certainly be changed in order to allow female succession and, unlike in a scenario where the Italian monarchy is already deposed, these legal changes are actually going to be legally binding in this scenario--correct? So, the Savoy-Aosta branch wouldn't even be able to legitimately *claim* the Italian throne with a straight face in a scenario where the Italian monarchy survives up to the present-day and eventually allows female succession, right? If so, this would be rather sad for them considering that they waited over a century to acquire the Italian throne--or at least to claim it.

 

[Futurist]

Monarchy survival, agnatic primogeniture, and morganatic marriage alternate history

Here's an interesting alternate history question for you: Had (much) more monarchies survived up to the present-day, which additional monarchies do you think would have kept agnatic primogeniture and/or a ban on morganatic marriages all of the way up to the present-day?

Personally, I think that both of these things would have had to go by now in most, if not all, European monarchies due to the spread of egalitarian principles throughout Europe in the 20th century, which I suspect would have still eventually happened to a significant extent even without the World Wars and even had much more European monarchies survived up to the present-day. (In fact, I would argue that not even France, in spite of its extremely long history of agnatic primogeniture, would have actually been an exception to this trend in the event that the French monarchy would have been restored in the early 1870s and subsequently survived all of the way up to the present-day.) Some European microstates might have been able to get away with avoiding making such changes by now, but probably not any major European countries. But I suspect that, say, Muslim, Asian, and African countries might have been different since feminism probably does not have as deeply rooted of a history there. This is why countries such as Japan, Jordan, and Morocco all retain agnatic primogeniture up to the present-day in real life, for instance--with there being (to my knowledge) not enough of an outrage about this for change to have actually been successfully done in regards to this yet. (Yes, Japan did consider allowing females to succeed to its throne in 2006, but that was only due to a shortage of males; once Prince Hisahito was born--the first male born to the Japanese Imperial Family in a whopping 41 years--these plans were immediately cancelled.)

Latin America would be a more interesting question if its monarchies would have survived since Latin America is full of developing countries but nevertheless has considerable Western cultural influence in regards to things such as feminism (not to mention LGBTQ+ rights!). So, I suspect that any surviving Latin American monarchies would have likewise felt compelled to eventually scrap agnatic primogeniture and/or a ban on morganatic marriages.

Anyway, what do you personally think about all of this?