General Questions About Royalty and Monarchies

[yvr girl]

Originally Posted by Meraude

This is not entirely true, it depends on what country a princess is from, as the children of princess Margriet of the Netherlands are titled while her husband is Mr. Pieter van Vollenhoven. Men who have married future queens have got their wife's title (Claus of the Netherlands, Henrik of Denmark and Daniel of Sweden) and there will most likely be a number of men who gets their wife's title when the princess heirs of today's crown prince/ss start getting married.

These men did not receive title by the act of getting married. They were given these titles because the were getting married. Kate Middleton became the Duchess of Cambridge the moment she was married whereas Daniel Westling was created a Prince of Sweden by the King of Sweden on the day of his marriage.

[Meraude]

Originally Posted by yvr girl

These men did not receive title by the act of getting married. They were given these titles because the were getting married. Kate Middleton became the Duchess of Cambridge the moment she was married whereas Daniel Westling was created a Prince of Sweden by the King of Sweden on the day of his marriage.

Whether they got the title by the act of getting married or were given the title because they were getting married, it's the fact that the title came to them because they married a man or a woman with a title, as a grant from their father/mother-in-law. Their titles are not given them because they have done something great for which a monarch wants to honor them, for example Jean Baptiste Bernadotte got the title Prince of Ponte Corvo as an award for his services at Austerlitz, and he was later elected as crown prince of Sweden.

[Mermaid1962]

I'm a Canadian monarchist. I would curtsy if I met a member of the Royal Family, but the British Royal Family (i.e. Canada's Royal Family) have made it clear that it's a matter of choice. It's not "required." As I see it, the curtsy is a recognition of the person's position and doesn't have to do with a person's feelings about the royal in question. We have the monarchy because the modern nation was settled by people from Britain and France, both of which countries had monarchies. Unlike the United States, we didn't have a revolution; and so there was no need to jettison the Head of State (George III in your case). When Canada did become independent of Britain, the monarch wasn't seen as a foreign tyrant.

Originally Posted by aj00192557

-do you curtsy when you see a royal? i dont think i can stomach curtseying to somebody just because they were born royal. in fact, the royals should maybe acknowledge the people for paying them to be their kings and queens.
.

[sarahedwards2]

Then why did Andrew, Edward and William only get their titles on their wedding days?

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by sarahedwards2

Then why did Andrew, Edward and William only get their titles on their wedding days?

Because there was no need for them to have one prior to marriage.

[sarahedwards2]

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen

Because there was no need for them to have one prior to marriage.

But as the second son of the reigning monarch, Andrew was still the Duke of York, wasn't he?

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by sarahedwards2

But as the second son of the reigning monarch, Andrew was still the Duke of York, wasn't he?

Nope. Prior to his marriage he was HRH The Prince Andrew, he was created Duke of York when he married Sarah.

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by sarahedwards2

But as the second son of the reigning monarch, Andrew was still the Duke of York, wasn't he?

HM also created Andrew the Duke of York on his wedding day. It seems to be a tradition in the British royal family. With this practice also, the bride becomes titled at the time of marriage. Hence why we have The Duchess of Cambridge rather than Princess William. The same applied to Sarah and Sophie on their wedding days.

[Jacknch]

Originally Posted by aj00192557

hi to all, i am new to this forum and i have a bunch of questions for people under the monarchial system. i think im a monarchist but i live in america so i haven't experienced to be under a system like that. i may sound ignorant but its not wrong to ask. here are my questions:
-do you curtsy when you see a royal? i dont think i can stomach curtseying to somebody just because they were born royal. in fact, the royals should maybe acknowledge the people for paying them to be their kings and queens.
-if somebody has a title like lord or lady, count/countess, etc., do they use it in real life? do they write their name as Lord X blah, blah, blah in signing credit cards and writing checks?
-do theses nobles with title get preferential treatment at work or at school? i would hate it if your boss or your principal shows preferential treatment towards a kid with a "Lord" attached to his name or to a kid with a really well known last name.
-do these noblemen actually feel entitled and look down on commoners? i am not talkin about a royal family. of course some of them could be snobs because they are prince or princesses, etc. but im talking about, for a lack of term, your "minor" noblemen ( your lords, barons, and a really old last name).
-do you guys "respect" your monarchs? if yes what makes you respect them? sure, well all need to respect each other but you know what im talking about.
- why do you have a monarchy? is it because the ancestors of these ruling dynasties established your country and made it the way it is right now through war and conquest. i think that is the reason why europe has monarchy.

thanks for viewing or answering my questions. it is greatly appreciated.

I will answer your excellent questions from my own perspective:

In terms of bowing to a royal, if I happen to bump into one unexpectedly, then I would not bow, as the situation would be informal. If I met a royal in formal circumstances where tradition and/or convention requires a bow in honour of the office held by the royal, then I would bow, albeit more a nod of the head than a full-blown right-angked bow. It is not an unusual situation in everyday life to show some form of resepct to someone. For instance, we all generally shake hands with someone we are being introduced to as it is polite and shows respect to them. It is no different from holding a door open for someone or giving up your seat to an elderly person on the bus, it's just basic manners. If I were to meet the US President, I believe I would very likely bow to him too because the office he holds deserves respect and regard in a polite and meaningful manner.

Titled persons such as Lady Dorothy Brabinghton-Smythe, would sign her name much the same as anyone well. A titled person with a place attached to their title will sign as follows:
The current Duke of Devonshire's name is Peregrine Cavendish and his nick-name is Stoker. He varioulsy signs his name as either "Stoker Devonshire" or just "Devonshire". His wife signs her name as "Amanda Devonshire".

My partner works in a large company in London and worked for a time with a peer of the realm. The peer in question was treated no differently than anyone else and acted no differently from anyone else.

Given that a vast amount of untitled people believe it is quite justified to look down upon those with titles, I feel the two things probably cancel eachother out.

Yes, I respect my monarch very highly indeed on the basis that her role is important for the country and she never sought the high office that she holds. I respect very few politicians because they have sought high-office for their own gain (personal and political).

[Andolini]

Originally Posted by michelleq

I am an American. If I met a Royal, I would curtsey. It is a sign of respect and it wouldn't bother me a bit.

I agree completely.

[Muhler]

To me the answer is simple: I salute the rank, not the person.
So any royal will be greeted in a proper respectful manner by me.

The royals of my own country, because I believe in the monarchy and because they no matter what my opinion might be are the highest official representatives of my country.
That I also happen to respect and even like most of them is just a bonus.

All other royals with be greeted with respect simply because they are official representatives of their countries and I would be a poor representative of my country I didn't show proper respect.

[Meraude]

Originally Posted by Muhler

To me the answer is simple: I salute the rank, not the person.
So any royal will be greeted in a proper respectful manner by me.

I agree, it's the rank, not the person I would salute. Monarchs, as well as other heads of state, would get a bow, but I would never curtsey, if I ever was to greet a head of state. As for minor royals, they would get the same kind of greeting as any other person I meet for the first time.

[Andolini]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

For starters I doubt you'd meet any of them walking down the street

This link may help you

Forms of address in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks for the wiki link!!! Off topic - I love Queen Sofia, especially when she is with her grandchildren, she is so very much a natural grandma!!! Just so genuinely happy and loving with them, so I appreciate your avatar!!

[Queen Shirley]

How long will they keep calling her Duchess Catherine Middleton? She is married now. Shouldn't she be called Duchess Catherine Windsor, or Duchess Catherine of Cambridge or just Duchess Catherine? Why do they keep using Middleton? We all know her now. Is this some royal rule?

[PrincessKaimi]

Who is "they", Queen Shirley? The media is all over the place in what to call her.

There are a couple of ways of properly referring to her; Duchess Catherine Middleton isn't one of them.

[AdmirerUS]

Originally Posted by Mermaid1962

I'm a Canadian monarchist. I would curtsy if I met a member of the Royal Family, but the British Royal Family (i.e. Canada's Royal Family) have made it clear that it's a matter of choice. It's not "required." As I see it, the curtsy is a recognition of the person's position and doesn't have to do with a person's feelings about the royal in question. We have the monarchy because the modern nation was settled by people from Britain and France, both of which countries had monarchies. Unlike the United States, we didn't have a revolution; and so there was no need to jettison the Head of State (George III in your case). When Canada did become independent of Britain, the monarch wasn't seen as a foreign tyrant.

Her majesty agrees. See the monarchy page on this at: http://www.royal.gov.uk/HMTheQueen/G.../Overview.aspx

[Ish]

Originally Posted by Queen Shirley

How long will they keep calling her Duchess Catherine Middleton? She is married now. Shouldn't she be called Duchess Catherine Windsor, or Duchess Catherine of Cambridge or just Duchess Catherine? Why do they keep using Middleton? We all know her now. Is this some royal rule?

Catherine's official title is HRH Duchess of Cambridge. Her title will not include her name in it until she is queen.

The press continue to use Middleton because they don't understand titles, or they don't respect a woman's decision to be known by her married name, or they simply don't care.

[PrincessKaimi]

Originally Posted by sarahedwards2

Then why did Andrew, Edward and William only get their titles on their wedding days?

I've always seen at as a kind of wedding gift/incentive to grow up and settle down.

I suspect that only HRH The Queen knows for sure.

[Queen Shirley]

Yes I was talking about the TV media and newspapers and the internet. They keep using Middleton. I makes it sound like she is single. "Prince William and Catherine Middleton". The press needs to be corrected, It just sounds wrong.

[Skippyboo]

Internet search keywords also play a part in keeping Kate as her maiden name.

Regards to titles of the children of the sovereign, only one title is automatic that is duke of Cornwall who is the eldest son and heir apparent. The prince of wales, princess royal, dukedoms have to be given.