The Queen's Churchgoing Habits

[Patra]

I read that the first service was to receive communion privately, and then the more public service.

 

[windsorgirl]

I read that the first service was to receive communion privately, and then the more public service.

Yes, that's what was reported and makes sense. I was wondering about the first service because it has never (to my knowledge) been mentioned or covered by the media. Is this the family's usual Christmas practice? Perhaps it is, and the activity was covered more closely this year due to the interest in Kate. I have read (believe it was a Brian Hoey biography) that HM prefers a quieter, contemplative church service, in general, which is what the early service provides in most churches.

 

[Harold]

I hope I can ask this on this thread: do Willliam, Kate, and Harry regularly attend church?

 

[Iluvbertie]

Simple answer - we don't know. I would expect that William and Harry do attend regularly on base - particularly William as he knows that his destiny is to be Supreme Governor of the Church of England (unless the parliament decides to disestablish the church which has been discussed at various times over the last 200 years).

 

[LadyGabrielle]

That is a good question. Do they go every Sunday to church or only at certain times? Is there a church at the palace? I have been wondering about that. Is it required that the royal family attend church on a regular basis?

 

[Iluvbertie]

All palaces/castles etc have private chapels as well as the more public ones e.g. Windsor does have a private chapel inside the castle as well as St George's. BP has a private one as well but the family also use a number of chapels/churches nearby.

Do they go every week? We don't really know although the Queen does. If she is overseas there is always either a public church service or time set aside for her to have a private service on a Sunday.

As for the rest of the family - there have been reports of Charles and Camilla regularly attending the local church near Highgrove as well as attending church at Sandringham when they go there without the Queen at times during the year.

With the younger royals we really don't know - but following the drop off within their generation I would suspect that they attend way less than their father or grandmother.

 

[Diarist]

I hope I can ask this on this thread: do Willliam, Kate, and Harry regularly attend church?

I agree with Ilovebertie's view that the younger generation don't attend as much as the older generations.

The Church is pretty closely entwined with military life, and so I agree with the contention that William and Harry therefore probably attend more religious services than other younger royals.

Religious practice in the UK is a bit of an odd thing anyway - as most forum members here will know, Anglicanism is the 'official state religion', with the Queen of course being the Supreme Governor of the Church of England. Church congregations are (mostly) falling from year to year in many parishes. Yet, many people, when asked for their religion say 'Church of England' even though in recent years they have only been to church for weddings and funerals etc, not, 'normal sunday services'. So I suppose the younger royals are really only mirroring society.

So far as Catherine is concerned, I do not think that she came from a regularly-church-going family at all. I noticed that just before she married, she was hastily confirmed. As a rule - although this is a generalisation - most people who attend boarding schools tend to get confirmed at school. Dare I say it, it's a form of 'the done thing' for some people, who, whilst retaining a form of 'nominal anglican affiliation' don't really seem very religious at all, but nevertheless attend the confirmation classes and then get confirmed.

I look back to my days at school, and almost everyone got confirmed when they were 15 or 16. It was a case of almost just 'following the herd', I suppose. And I might say, it does look a bit hypocritical looking back, but most people's parents had been confirmed and so you were really just continuing the tradition expected of you. Basically it was also felt to be a good thing, as in due course you were probably going to want to get married in church, be a godparent etc.

To be honest, I was therefore a bit surprised that Catherine had not previously been confirmed - Malborough has quite a strong religious tradition, it has a beautiful chapel, pupils very regularly attend services there etc etc and most get confirmed. And so I am surprised that Catherine did not end up getting confirmed. Perhaps she was actually being 'more honest' to herself than the rest of us were - perhaps Catherine was no less religious than most of us when we were at school, but, unlike us who just 'followed the herd' and got confirmed, decided to be true to herself.

Incidentally, Princess Margaret was always said to be very religious. The Duchess of Kent is also very religious, and her own 'path' has taken her ofmembership of the Catholic Church. Occasionally, she has made it clear how she has been supported by her catholic faith.

The Queen is however ecumenical in her approach. She has invited prominent Catholic priests to deliver sermons etc etc over the years.

A little point which I will throw in here - sometimes, it is quite difficult for brides to marry in the Anglican church , with some vicars not going out of the way to help etc etc. When a royal gets married, there is always some comment or letter in the papers along the lines of 'Why does the Church make it so easy for [insert name of royal] to marry in chuch, it's one rule for them, yet another for us etc etc. Looking back to 1986, I can remember people commenting on the fact that it was slightly incongruous that Fergie [very much a non-church goer] was able to marry so easily in Westminster Abbey, and there was also some comment about the fact that she was fully veiled, even though she had been living quite openly with Paddy McNally etc. There was also comment a bit later about how the local Dummer vicar, who had always INSISTED that babies were baptised during regular Church services, quickly made an expception and allowed a private Christening service for one of Jane Makim's children, [who of course was also not a parishoner] on the basis of the Royal connection.

Another slightlyOT point: when Zara wanting to get married in Scotland, another couple had already booked Cannongate Kirk on the same day, whereupon they found themselves 'approached' by the vicar and royal aides and therefore 'bumped'. A couple of weeks ago, the 'bumped' bride mentioned that she was a bit surprised that Zara or an aide had not dropped her a note to say thanks for altering your wedding ........I do have to say that I, too, am a bit sad that no one found time to say thanks to the 'bumped' bride - it would not have taken 5 minutes.

Alex

 

[KittyAtlanta]

Alex, thx for the information. It appears that all we "civilized" nations have become too casual, causing us to be just a tad ungracious. Being an old lady, I must admit that I do miss the "must do's" of the past.

 

[LadyGabrielle]

Amen to that!!! Can't seem to find many with manners anymore. Oh the good old days. Thanks for the info Alex. That pretty much answered my question.

 

[Thena]

I do wonder if the Queen's churchgoing habits have something to do with her experiences growing up during WWII. The younger royals have not experienced such an ordeal.

 

[Iluvbertie]

As for the Queen's churchgoing habits - I think WWII was just a part of that generation's experience but earlier generations also went to church on a regular basis without that experience. It is more to do with how she was raised, what the expectations are on her and her generation in general. The baby boomer generation - including all of the Queen's children - are less likely to attend church, even though as kids we were usually taken to church on Sundays but as we reached adulthood many other things started to happen on Sundays e.g. when I was a kid all sport was played on Saturdays and nothing on Sundays but by the time I was in my 20s sport was also being played on Sunday afternoons and by the time I was in my 30s I often had to take the kids in our families to their competitive sports on Sunday morning - so had to choose - church or sport. Our kids now only go to church for weddings and funerals. It just doesn't feature in their lives .

 

[Diarist]

snipped....... when I was a kid all sport was played on Saturdays and nothing on Sundays but by the time I was in my 20s sport was also being played on Sunday afternoons and by the time I was in my 30s I often had to take the kids in our families to their competitive sports on Sunday morning - so had to choose - church or sport. Our kids now only go to church for weddings and funerals. It just doesn't feature in their lives .

Your mention of sport and Sundays remind me very much of a recent 'royal dilemma', Iluvbertie. This occurred when the Jockey Club et al were trying to 'revive the Derby', the most important Classic race in the British Racing Calendar.

Traditionally, 'Derby Day' was always the first WEDNESDAY in June. It was not a public holiday, but by the 20th Century, it had become an ENORMOUS public gathering. The House of Commons used to close for the day, to enable MPs to attend. Whole London Offices used to almost close-down completely [although sadly not mine!!] to enable their staff to attend [abeit by taking annual leave]. I can remember the first year that I started work after Oxford, I walked [as I usually did] to my office near St James's Park, and as I crossed the enormous junctions by Trafalgar Square, I noticed open-top London bus after open-top London bus after open-top London bus, all hired by various parties, heading for Epsom and the Derby. It was getting on for 9 in the morning, but already, the parties on the busses were in full swing - Champagne and hampers - and it looked SUCH fun, and there was I, off to work...

Well, that sort of excess couldn't really continue and as the decade rolled on, people stopped taking the whole day off and going to the Derby - in fact, I think that this was when people started to work harder, frightened for their jobs etc. As a result, attendance at the Derby declined pretty rapidly, and so there was talk about switching the Derby to the weekend. As well as the Derby, another classic horserace was held during the Derby 3 day meeting - The Oaks [for fillies], which was held on Saturday, the original 'final day of the Derby meeting'. The stalwarts of the Jockey Club therefore decided that it would be good to shift the whole meeting, with the Oaks taking place on the Saturday, and the more-important race, the Derby, taking place on the Sunday..... Whereupon the Queen immediately let it be known that if the Derby did move to Sunday, then, although it would have her blessing, the day would NOT have her presence, as she could not go racing on a Sunday. Whereupon it was decided to move the Oaks to the Friday, and the Derby to the Saturday, where it now remains...!

Hope this is of interest,

Alex

 

[Mermaid1962]

I confess to being old-fashioned when it comes to honouring Sunday. This story is encouraging to me.

Whereupon the Queen immediately let it be known that if the Derby did move to Sunday, then, although it would have her blessing, the day would NOT have her presence, as she could not go racing on a Sunday.

 

[kakieanne]

I did not know that story about the Derby. As a Christian, I am so impressed that HM would not go racing on 'The Lord's Day'. I guess I'm old-fashioned too.

 

[Chris Ross]

I would imagine that her Majesty enjoys the more informal worship at Crathie when at Balmoral...which is Church of Scotland-Presbyterian. It was known that Queen Victoria preferred it to the rituals of "high-church Anglican", but then she did love all things Scottish, didn't she! If you listen to the ending of the Queen's annual Christmas address, she ALWAYS references Jesus Christ...I truly believe he has sustained her through often trying life and that she does, in fact, have what we Christians call a "personal relationship" with him!
Chris Moncrief-Ross

 

[King of the Jungle]

It is sad to me that the younger members of the Royal Family don't attend church on a regular basis. Why would William bother to be confirmed unless he was interested in being at least slightly involved with the church in his local parish?
My children are all younger than Catherine and William but do enjoy going to church where-ever they live. It is an extra depth of contemplation that they have most weeks and they enjoy helping out with associated charity occasions. They are also very sporty. Younger people can participate in a thoroughly modern life and also include practising their Christian religion. I've seen it done. Often it is the generation before (Charles etc.) that leads the way for their children to view Church going as a regular and necessary inclusion in one's every day lives.
I think it is important for William to show a good example of support towards the Anglican Church. I don't want a situation where it seems odd or weird to practise a main stream Christian religion.

 

[cinrit]

Interesting point, but do we ever see any of the Royals going to church, other than when they're on vacation? I'm sure they all have their own ways of practicing their religion, which doesn't necessarily fit with the definition of others.

 

[KittyAtlanta]

Perhaps because they don't have to leave the palace to attend services.

 

[cinrit]

Would that mean each home has a chapel? Or would everyone congregate at a particular place ... Buckingham Palace or Clarence House or wherever ...

 

[KittyAtlanta]

Sorry, my comments were aimed at HM and PP. I don't know where, or if, others attend their parish churches on a regular basis.

 

[Mermaid1962]

In many ways, I think that HM is the last of her kind; and this includes her overt Christianity. Although, I was encouraged by Kate and William's own prayer being included in their marriage ceremony.

If you listen to the ending of the Queen's annual Christmas address, she ALWAYS references Jesus Christ...I truly believe he has sustained her through often trying life and that she does, in fact, have what we Christians call a "personal relationship" with him!
Chris Moncrief-Ross

 

[An Ard Ri]

In 1995,Her Majesty The Queen attended an ecumenical service at the RC Westminster Cathedral,the first British Monarch to set foot inside an RC Church in Britain since the Reformation.The queen came at the invitation of the late Cardinal Basil Hume.

 

[Iluvbertie]

All the palaces do have private chapels so the Queen and other members of the family can attend services there. We don't see them all the time simply because the press don't cover them every Sunday.

I have been to the Queen's Chapel at St James' and the minister there is one of the Queen's private chaplains. I asked if members of the royal family attended the Queen's Chapel and she said rarely - but they might turn up one Sunday and not again for a couple of months.

Charles and Camilla are regularly seen at the church at Tetbury but the locals respect them and so let them get on with their worship in private.

The military bases where William and Harry are based also have chapels so it is reasonable to assume that they attend church there sometimes.

 

[Warren]

For the record...

The Telegraph, 7 October 2012

Royal role

While Julian Ovenden was winning plaudits for his performance in the new musical Finding Neverland, the Old Etonian’s father was, quietly, celebrating a great honour from the Queen.

Canon John Ovenden, who retired as one of the monarch’s chaplains in July, has been appointed as Canon Emeritus of St George’s Chapel, Windsor.
.

 

[Iain]

Religious practice in the UK is a bit of an odd thing anyway - as most forum members here will know, Anglicanism is the 'official state religion', with the Queen of course being the Supreme Governor of the Church of England. /QUOTE]


Anglicanism is only the "official state religion" in England, not the UK.

 

[Mbruno]

All the palaces do have private chapels so the Queen and other members of the family can attend services there. We don't see them all the time simply because the press don't cover them every Sunday.

I have been to the Queen's Chapel at St James' and the minister there is one of the Queen's private chaplains. I asked if members of the royal family attended the Queen's Chapel and she said rarely - but they might turn up one Sunday and not again for a couple of months.

Charles and Camilla are regularly seen at the church at Tetbury but the locals respect them and so let them get on with their worship in private.
.

I remember learning at school that, during the Reformation, both Luther and Calvin opposed the use of private masses as practiced by the Roman Catholic Church. I believe the reason for that was related to the Reformers' belief that the sacrament of the Eucharist (or Lord's Supper) was not valid unless the consecration of the bread and wine was done in public.

From your message, I infer though that the Queen attends private Sunday services at Windsor. Is that practice allowed then in the Church of England ?

 

[Iluvbertie]

Yes. The Church of England remained more closely aligned to Roman Catholicism than either the Lutheran or Calvinistic churches.

Henry and Elizabeth broke with Rome but the liturgy and practices were definitely more attuned to the old church then the newer ones developing elsewhere.

Private chapels don't mean an individual either - private simply means limited in the number of people who can attend e.g. the private chapels in the palaces would be available for the people in the palaces to attend.

All the royal palaces have private chapels where the royal family and their loyal retainers can go but not the ordinary members of the public.

If you think about it this is also a security measure.

 

[Iain]

Holyrood doesn't have a private chapel.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Holyrood doesn't have a private chapel.

Pity that the historic Abbey church was left a ruin and never restored to its former glory.

 

[Dee Anna]

Is it too late?