The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #1361  
Old 02-15-2022, 03:03 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Midlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,214
Quote:
Originally Posted by muriel View Post
I thought he laid out his case well.
Yes I agree he did. He's always been one of the better Guardian contributors. He does have a grasp of historical context unlike many of them.

Not convinced she will, or indeed should, however.
  #1362  
Old 02-15-2022, 03:11 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 8,729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durham View Post
From The Guardian:

Nothing new really. Interesting all the same.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...arles-monarchy

He does talk about the abdication of Queen Beatrix as a positive event & explains his reasoning.
I respect Sir Simon Jenkins, but I still think that the peculiar constitutional status of the Queen in the Commonwealth realms makes abdication impractical or a complex proposition to say the least.

A regency remains a more palatable option. Although the regency would not in principle extend to Australia or Canada, those realms can conceivably manage without a functioning monarch for a couple of years with their respective Governors General in place. A practical problem would arise only if, in addition to no monarch, there were no Governor General in office either during the regency.

As far as Canada is concerned, in the event that the office of Governor General is vacant, the Chief Justice of Canada may serve, however, as Administrator of the government for an indefinite period of time (pursuant to King George VI's Letters Patent of 1947) until there is a monarch in place to commission a new viceroy. So I don't see any difficulty.

In Australia, on the other hand, I understand that the longest serving state governor holds a dormant commission from the Queen to serve as interim administrator should the office of Governor General become vacant. My understanding is also that this dormant commission can be activated, pursuant to Queen Elizabeth II's Letters Patent of 2008, by a request for example of the Prime Minister of Australia, but I am not sure if the Queen would still have to be included in the loop at that point. Does anybody know?

In New Zealand, of course, everything is easier since the Constitution Act 1986 automatically enables a regent in the UK to assume the powers of the office of the Sovereign of the Realm of New Zealand while the regency is in force.
  #1363  
Old 02-15-2022, 05:10 PM
Excalibur's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Jacksonville, Florida, United States
Posts: 135
I think we find the answer to the original question in the Queen's Ascension Message. She renews her pledge from nearly 75 years ago to devote her whole life to the service of her country; she looks forward to continuing to serve; and Prince Charles will take over "in the fullness of time". The answer is an emphatic, NO.
  #1364  
Old 02-15-2022, 07:01 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 620
I don't think that QEII will ever abdicate and I think she's wrong to not abdicate for William.
  #1365  
Old 02-15-2022, 07:06 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Midlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Susan D View Post
I don't think that QEII will ever abdicate and I think she's wrong to not abdicate for William.
She can't abdicate & name a successor. Whoever is next in line according to the Act of Succession becomes monarch. That can only be altered by Parliament.
  #1366  
Old 02-15-2022, 07:31 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 14,036
We have a clear answer to this question in the statement she made less than two weeks ago ...
https://www.royal.uk/queens-accession-day-message

As we mark this anniversary, it gives me pleasure to renew to you the pledge I gave in 1947 that my life will always be devoted to your service.


Everyone focussed on her comments later in the message about Camilla and overlooked that simple sentence at the beginning - a renewal of the pledge she gave as a 21 year old, before she married, became a mother and a Queen - to SERVE for LIFE.

She has renewed this pledge at both the 2012 and now the 2022 Jubilees.
  #1367  
Old 02-15-2022, 07:42 PM
Excalibur's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Jacksonville, Florida, United States
Posts: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
We have a clear answer to this question in the statement she made less than two weeks ago ...
https://www.royal.uk/queens-accession-day-message

As we mark this anniversary, it gives me pleasure to renew to you the pledge I gave in 1947 that my life will always be devoted to your service.


Everyone focussed on her comments later in the message about Camilla and overlooked that simple sentence at the beginning - a renewal of the pledge she gave as a 21 year old, before she married, became a mother and a Queen - to SERVE for LIFE.

She has renewed this pledge at both the 2012 and now the 2022 Jubilees.
Exactly. When I read that first part of her message, I thought to myself, "well there's your answer."
  #1368  
Old 02-15-2022, 08:44 PM
padams2359's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New Orleans, United States
Posts: 726
She will draw her last breath as The Reigning Monarch.
  #1369  
Old 02-15-2022, 08:46 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 8,729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
We have a clear answer to this question in the statement she made less than two weeks ago ...
https://www.royal.uk/queens-accession-day-message

As we mark this anniversary, it gives me pleasure to renew to you the pledge I gave in 1947 that my life will always be devoted to your service.


Everyone focussed on her comments later in the message about Camilla and overlooked that simple sentence at the beginning - a renewal of the pledge she gave as a 21 year old, before she married, became a mother and a Queen - to SERVE for LIFE.

She has renewed this pledge at both the 2012 and now the 2022 Jubilees.
She can technically continue to "serve" the people following an abdication. Princess Beatrix undertakes public duties as a member of the Dutch Royal House and has done so since she abdicated in 2013.
  #1370  
Old 02-15-2022, 09:14 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Member - in Memoriam
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 17,267
Let me ask a question here. Does anyone actually believe that the Queen, at 95, is not able to fulfill the duties *required of the monarch only* at this time? Engagements and duties and public appearances are not a part of the *official monarch only* duties. She could rest as Queen forevermore at Windsor Castle and yet still fulfill the things only *she* can do at this time.

I believe those things to be:
1) The red boxes daily except for Christmas Day.
2) Have weekly meetings with her PM (as we've seen with Covid, it's been done via video and audio links and phone)
3) State Opening of Parliament. (In 2020 the State Opening did not take place, as Parliament had been in session since the December 2019 State Opening, and possibly because of the COVID-19 pandemic and general lockdown in the country.)

I'm sure if there are more, people that know more than I do will add to that list. So.... it *is* possible for the Queen to remain monarch until she is actually deemed incapable and by abdicating, it really wouldn't give her really that much more rest and respite than she already has physically.

I think if the Queen was truly of a mind to abdicate (in the manner of Princess Beatrix), a lot of the life would go out of her. It's her keeping active and on the ball and involved in her monarchy that is giving her (as it has for 70 years) her main purpose in life.
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
  #1371  
Old 02-15-2022, 09:28 PM
Muhler's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 15,797
I simply cannot see QEII abdicating now unless she is incapacitated by a stroke or something similar.

She is too close to the final stop for an abdication to make sense while she is still able to be out and about.
Not least when you consider that Charles is now past his prime and William is entering his prime. (The prime for a monarch IMO being 40-65. - In regards to experience, drive, stamina, willingness to implement reforms, widest public appeal and so on.)
  #1372  
Old 02-15-2022, 10:08 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 14,036
The Queen has no duties that only she can perform.

Chairin the Privy Council to give official approval to all legislation, can be done by two CoSs, and can be done via video as has happened for the past two years.

She doesn't have to meet with the PM each week ... and only does so when Parliament is sitting - so about 35 times a year. She has had two 'in person' meetings in the past two years (once last year and the most recent one).

She doesn't have to Open Parliament as shown when she was pregnant with both Princes Andrew and Edward when she didn't do it and it still happened. It was opened by a non-royal as well.

She doesn't have to meet with incoming and outgoing High Commissioners and Ambassadors - can be done by CoSs as has happened in the past.

She doesn't have to read the red boxes - that is to keep her informed but it isn't a necessity and as was shown in 1936 the government isn't compelled to send all documents etc to the monarch. In 1936 many documents were deliberately withheld from the King and others were 'planted' to prove his lack of security.

Other than the 'reading the red boxes' and meeting with the PM these things have to be done but they don't have to be done by the monarch. She can appoint others to do them.
  #1373  
Old 02-15-2022, 10:47 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 2,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire View Post
If you had asked me this question last year - even six months ago I would have agreed. Now I think we are heading for an abdication or regency.

I think the Queen is tired and I also think that she feels she is letting people down by not been able to do her duties. Between covid and her illness at the beginning of the year - I think she feels that she is physically no longer fit for the job. The Queen is a big believer in that you need to be seen to be believed.
She just stated a week ago at her 70th anniversary of her accession she would carry on!
  #1374  
Old 02-15-2022, 10:56 PM
Leopoldine's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 1,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
I think we find the answer to the original question in the Queen's Ascension Message. She renews her pledge from nearly 75 years ago to devote her whole life to the service of her country; she looks forward to continuing to serve; and Prince Charles will take over "in the fullness of time". The answer is an emphatic, NO.

That sums everything up perfectly.
  #1375  
Old 02-15-2022, 11:05 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 2,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
She can technically continue to "serve" the people following an abdication. Princess Beatrix undertakes public duties as a member of the Dutch Royal House and has done so since she abdicated in 2013.
May be she could "technically" - but this is not how she understands her role and not like the british system works, so far.
  #1376  
Old 02-16-2022, 11:41 AM
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 11,043
Quote:
Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
May be she could "technically" - but this is not how she understands her role and not like the british system works, so far.
And at her age, if she did abdicate, she would harly do very much. I think that apart from her feeling of dedication to her sacred role as a royal, as she sees it, she also probalby feels that if she gave up working as much as she was able to, it would be the end of h er.
  #1377  
Old 02-16-2022, 01:35 PM
CyrilVladisla's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Conneaut, United States
Posts: 10,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Susan D View Post
I don't think that QEII will ever abdicate and I think she's wrong to not abdicate for William.
Susan, Did you mean Prince Charles instead of William? Charles is the Prince of Wales and the first in line to the throne.
  #1378  
Old 02-16-2022, 02:11 PM
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 11,043
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
Susan, Did you mean Prince Charles instead of William? Charles is the Prince of Wales and the first in line to the throne.
No, I htink she means that the queen should abdicate nad let Willliam have the throne.
  #1379  
Old 02-16-2022, 03:15 PM
Somebody's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Suriname
Posts: 8,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
No, I htink she means that the queen should abdicate nad let Willliam have the throne.
Most likely but of course that is not something the queen can decide.

I agree with the posters before who stated that the queen will not abdicate - something she clearly espoused again with the 'renewal' of her vows in her latest anniversary message.
  #1380  
Old 02-16-2022, 04:01 PM
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 11,043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Most likely but of course that is not something the queen can decide.

I agree with the posters before who stated that the queen will not abdicate - something she clearly espoused again with the 'renewal' of her vows in her latest anniversary message.
No but many people do think that the queen can do this..
Closed Thread

Tags
abdication, elizabeth ii, queen elizabeth ii, regency, retirement


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Would They Have Married? auntie Royal Chit Chat 502 12-24-2017 04:38 PM




Popular Tags
abdullah ii africa albert prince consort all tags arcadie arcadie claret austria caribbean caroline charles iii claret current events danish royal family death denmark duarte pio duchess of kent edward vii emperor naruhito empress masako espana garsenda genealogy general news grace kelly grimaldi hamdan bin ahmed harry history identifying india introduction king charles king philippe king willem-alexander leopold ier louis mountbatten matrilineal monaco monarchy mountbatten official visit order of precedence portugal prince albert monaco prince christian princess of orange queen queen alexandra queen camilla queen elizabeth queen ena of spain queen margrethe ii queen mathilde queen maxima queen victoria republics restoration royal initials royal wedding silk spanish history spanish royal family state visit switzerland tiaras visit william wine glass woven


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:19 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2023
Jelsoft Enterprises