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  #1161  
Old 10-29-2018, 08:51 AM
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There is no any problem. It just exposes the real content of the high office. A 90+ will be succeeded by a 70+ but that is no problem because it is no real work, as you stated, see quote.
Again, Ageism, off the top of my head, Donald Trump is 72, I guess the office of President of the US is not real work, but i digress
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  #1162  
Old 10-29-2018, 09:39 AM
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HM, The Queen may be 92 years young but she is still active and puts in a full day still doing what is required of her. She, of course, is slowing down a bit physically as we all do as we grow older but she is still on top of things and I would think that after doing the job for 65+ years, has it pretty much down pat and could do it in her sleep if she had to.

She has a strong support system in her family and her trusted advisors. She *could* do the duty of a Queen from her bedroom should she choose in blue fuzzy slippers surrounded by her remaining dogs but this is a woman that keeps active and from sources that I've read, really enjoys the job. One just has to look at her face in recent photographs to see that she has a smile that just cannot be faked. She still gets up each morning with a zest for the day ahead of her. She still rides her Fell pony when she can. She also has a husband that doesn't let the flies land on him either. She is the epitome of what we all would hope to be like when we're in our 90s.

As I've said before, HM is pragmatic and a realist and she most likely realizes that the body does grow old and infirm and eventually dies. She's one that leaves no stone unturned of what could happen and has contingencies in place for any eventual situation. We're seeing a soft transference between monarch to monarch right now with more and more being handed over to Charles and Camilla and the younger royals. This is HM, The Queen at her best. Not only is she faultlessly doing her job but she's also faultlessly getting all her ducks in a row for a easy transition into the next reign.

This is what she will do to the best of her ability as long as she humanly can. When the time comes that she cannot, she can rest assured that things are as they're supposed to be and the monarchy continues without a hitch or a snag or a "what do we do now?" kind of a situation.

If the Boy Scouts ever need a prime example of their motto "Be Prepared" at work, they only have to look to the British monarch and her "Firm" for a good example. Elizabeth II may never abdicate but when we think about it, should she decide to tomorrow, the monarchy would run smooth and strong in continuity. As quickly as the change of monarch is in the simple expressing of "The Queen is dead. Long live the King!" so will it be an easy transition without snags in the running of the monarchy.

To be absolutely honest, at this point, I don't think that HM would have a clue how *not* to be Queen. Its such an essential part of who she is.
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  #1163  
Old 10-29-2018, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
In that her only real power is appointing the GG yes. Though she does so with the suggestion made by the prime minister at the time.

But not that we are on the verge of becoming a republic. Honestly if the queen was down to one country (beyond GB) my bet would be on Canada being last. There is really no major republican movement in Canada, besides Quebec, and Quebec wants to get rid of us too. Most Canadians tend to view the queen as simply on our money and the GG appearanes. The only thing that really gets much ire is the cost of some of their trips here. Otherwise Canadians tend to see her, and even Charles, quite benevolently for the most part. The mind set I grew up around, even in school, the PM is really our head of state. The queen is simply a figure head on our money.
I agree, Australia would go before Canada. Charles isn't popular here, but neither do people have strong feelings about him in general. People might talk about revisiting the monarchy when he becomes king, but in reality the topic probably won't be broached.

I wonder if it has something to do with being next-door neighbours to the U.S. Canadians are happy to have the monarchy to distinguish ourselves from the U.S. and have our own identity.
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  #1164  
Old 10-31-2018, 03:21 AM
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a regency under QEII - yes. abdication? absolutely no. If she really would consider abdication as an reliable option - she would have long done so.
If the queen is dead, i think, for some time her legacy will help to keep the monarchy alive. but this will wear of after a year, two years and then it will show how much the public gives charles the credit of being a good king, how much they still want a monarchy at least in the UK. I think, over the commonwealth and the countries, where Charles will be HoS, we will see referendums, if they want to keep him as Head of State or not, if they still want to belong to the commonwealth.
But the truth is, this is speculation and nobody can forecast what incidents happen which will have positive influence onto the monarchy or a bad one. And how the circumstances are.
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  #1165  
Old 10-31-2018, 03:27 AM
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I doubt that any country will have a referendum on leaving the Commonwealth.

Countries are free to leave any time they want at the desire of the government.

Some countries have left and then chosen to return as well.

Being a republic has nothing to do with being a monarchy with most of the countries of the Commonwealth already being republics.

Some countries have been suspended - when their government doesn't live up to the values of the Commonwealth (Fiji, Pakistan, South Africa and Zimbabwe are the most well known examples. Zimbabwe is the only one of these four currently suspended.)
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  #1166  
Old 10-31-2018, 03:35 AM
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yes, sorry, i forgot that. thank you for reminding me of the staying/leaving commonwealth business.
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  #1167  
Old 11-20-2018, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Von Schlesian View Post
Absolutely not. Considering the circumstances in which Her Majesty became Queen, and the seriousness with which Her Majesty has assumed the duties of Monarch, not to mention the very strick sense of service Her Majesty has displayed, there is no chance (or in my opinion) desire for Her Majesty to 'retire' (by which you mean abdicate).

Public out cry would be enourmous not just in Britain, but on the other Realms and Territories.
After faithful service to her nation, the Queen deserves to enjoy the last years of her life.As she getting older she handing more royal duties to her son. She should retire or declare him Prince regent.
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  #1168  
Old 11-20-2018, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Lunawalk View Post
After faithful service to her nation, the Queen deserves to enjoy the last years of her life.As she getting older she handing more royal duties to her son. She should retire or declare him Prince regent.
In the book I'm reading right now "Our Queen" by Robert Hardman and in a few other sources, its been stated that HM actually enjoys being Queen. I seriously think that if she were to "retire", she wouldn't know what to do with herself and miss the daily routine she's had for 66 years on the throne.
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  #1169  
Old 11-20-2018, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Lunawalk View Post
After faithful service to her nation, the Queen deserves to enjoy the last years of her life.As she getting older she handing more royal duties to her son. She should retire or declare him Prince regent.
That topic has been already discussed extensively on TRF. Here is a brief summary:

1) If the Queen becomes incapacitated, a regency is automatically established in the United Kingdom under the Regency Acts. The Queen’s impairment, however, would have to be certified, based on medical evidence, by at least three of the following five persons: the Queen’s consort, the Speaker of the House of Commons, the Lord Chancellor, the Lord Chief Justice, or the Master of the Rolls.

2) The regency does not extend automatically though to the other Commonwealth realms, except New Zealand where the Constitution Act provides explicitly for that extension. In practice then, Prince Charles would not be regent for example in Australia or Canada . That is not a major problem, however, because all powers and prerogatives of the Queen are exercised in Australia and Canada by the Governor General , who would carry on with his/her duties if the Queen became incapacitated. The only scenario I could think of where a problem would arise would be when a new Governor General had to be appointed, as only the Queen herself could technically do it .

3) Abdication, on the other hand, would be a difficult process because it would involve changing the law that regulates the succession to the Crown. Although that can be done quickly in the UK by an ordinary act of Parliament, the law would also have to be changed, when required, in other Commonwealth realms. As you might recall, the last time the succession law was amended, namely in the UK by the Succession to the Crown Act 2013, it took almost two years for all the realms to pass all necessary legislation so that the proposed changes could come into force.
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  #1170  
Old 11-20-2018, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
In the book I'm reading right now "Our Queen" by Robert Hardman and in a few other sources, its been stated that HM actually enjoys being Queen. I seriously think that if she were to "retire", she wouldn't know what to do with herself and miss the daily routine she's had for 66 years on the throne.
yes I sure she miss it. But now she handing royal duties to other royal family members. I sure she could do with out the stress of the job. As she served her nation faithfully now she deserves a rest. I bet she will find some purpose to her life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The State Visit of King Willem-Alexander showed how frail the Queen was. It also showed that almost everything was taken over by other royals: the Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall on day one, the Earl and Countess of Wessex on day two, plus the Duke of Kent during the naval demonstration on the Thames.

Essentially the Queen escorted the King during the short ride from Horse Guards' Parade. And the State Banquet, which showed the towering Dutch guests aside a shrinked and difficult walking Queen. One could see it was energy consuming for the tired lady. These two program points.

That was it. When I look to Spain, Belgium, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, the Netherlands, Japan or even the Vatican, all the Sovereigns consider a step back when they feel their physical or psychical wellbeing affects their high office. There is absolutely nothing dishonourable in handing the reins over into younger and stronger hands.
I totally agree in fact it show her love and devotion for the monarchy to hand it over to the next generation.

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Originally Posted by alvinking View Post
Again, Ageism, off the top of my head, Donald Trump is 72, I guess the office of President of the US is not real work, but i digress
He can be voted out in the next election.
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  #1171  
Old 11-20-2018, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunawalk View Post
I totally agree in fact it show her love and devotion for the monarchy to hand it over to the next generation.



I don't quite agree with Duc's point. Queen Margrethe II of Denmark is 78, thus much younger than Queen Elizabeth II. Nonetheless, during the recent Belgian and Dutch state visits to Denmark, the Danish queen also "outsourced" all program events other than the official reception and the state banquet to Crown Prince Frederik and Crown Princess Mary. So I don't think that Queen Elizabeth playing a limited role in the Spanish or Dutch state visits to the UK means anything in itself.


Of course, I agree that 92 is well over the retirement age in any country and that the Queen could have stepped down. The problem is, as I explained in my previous post above, that abdication is a quite complex process in the UK because of the Commonwealth realms and it is not necessary on grounds of incapacitation only since, under the latter circumstances, a regency would be (quasi-)automatically established in the UK under the Regency Acts. In fact, I don't rule out the scenario where Prince Charles becomes regent before he becomes the sovereign.
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  #1172  
Old 11-20-2018, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I don't quite agree with Duc's point. Queen Margrethe II of Denmark is 78, thus much younger than Queen Elizabeth II. Nonetheless, during the recent Belgian and Dutch state visits to Denmark, the Danish queen also "outsourced" all program events other than the official reception and the state banquet to Crown Prince Frederik and Crown Princess Mary. So I don't think that Queen Elizabeth playing a limited role in the Spanish or Dutch state visits to the UK means anything in itself.

Queen Margarethe is still in her mourning year for her late husband. We don't know how she will handle her reign once she has recovered more from that stroke.
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  #1173  
Old 11-20-2018, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
Queen Margarethe is still in her mourning year for her late husband. We don't know how she will handle her reign once she has recovered more from that stroke.

Prince Henrik was still alive during the Dutch state visit and, still, Queen Margrethe played a limited role in the program. Again, I don't think that is a big deal or something that is unique to Queen Elizabeth.
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  #1174  
Old 11-20-2018, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Lunawalk View Post
yes I sure she miss it. But now she handing royal duties to other royal family members. I sure she could do with out the stress of the job. As she served her nation faithfully now she deserves a rest. I bet she will find some purpose to her life.
"I declare before you all that my whole life, whether it be long or short shall be devoted to your service” is a promise made by the then 21 year old Princess Elizabeth and she has renewed that vow over the years. That is what she believes her purpose is in life. The Queen actually could pretty much carry out her job as monarch doing the things that only the monarch can do pretty much from her bedroom wearing blue fuzzy slippers but like Philip, she prefers to keep an active lifestyle (how many 92 year old women do you know of that actually still ride). She is at the helm of what is called the "Firm" and "Team Windsor". This woman has an extraordinary zest for life and will keep on doing what she's doing for as long as she humanly can.

The word "abdicate" is *not* in her vocabulary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Prince Henrik was still alive during the Dutch state visit and, still, Queen Margrethe played a limited role in the program. Again, I don't think that is a big deal or something that is unique to Queen Elizabeth.
Its also good hands on training for her family. As Charles is gradually getting to do things that his mother used to do, he's well prepared for his role as monarch. Same with William. He's learning the ropes to step into the role his father now has. The monarchy operates as a team with the most experienced Queen ever presiding at the helm of it all.
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  #1175  
Old 11-20-2018, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
"I declare before you all that my whole life, whether it be long or short shall be devoted to your service” is a promise made by the then 21 year old Princess Elizabeth and she has renewed that vow over the years. That is what she believes her purpose is in life. The Queen actually could pretty much carry out her job as monarch doing the things that only the monarch can do pretty much from her bedroom wearing blue fuzzy slippers but like Philip, she prefers to keep an active lifestyle (how many 92 year old women do you know of that actually still ride). She is at the helm of what is called the "Firm" and "Team Windsor". This woman has an extraordinary zest for life and will keep on doing what she's doing for as long as she humanly can.
Exactly, the queen would fail herself if she would abdicate. Being queen is not her job but her calling that she vowed to for life.

In general I am in favour of abdication so a younger generation can take over at a reasonable age but in her case I am convinced it would go against her conscience, so she should remain on the throne while Charles and her other family members support her as much as thry can. So far, it seems to work well.
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  #1176  
Old 11-20-2018, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The State Visit of King Willem-Alexander showed how frail the Queen was. It also showed that almost everything was taken over by other royals: the Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall on day one, the Earl and Countess of Wessex on day two, plus the Duke of Kent during the naval demonstration on the Thames.

Essentially the Queen escorted the King during the short ride from Horse Guards' Parade. And the State Banquet, which showed the towering Dutch guests aside a shrinked and difficult walking Queen. One could see it was energy consuming for the tired lady. These two program points.

That was it. When I look to Spain, Belgium, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, the Netherlands, Japan or even the Vatican, all the Sovereigns consider a step back when they feel their physical or psychical wellbeing affects their high office. There is absolutely nothing dishonourable in handing the reins over into younger and stronger hands.
"Frail"??? Absolute nonsense - other adjectives which come to mind include sprightly, engaged and engaging, enthused, warm, amusing.
I invite you to view the photos and videos in the next thread, of HM's visit today to the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors on the 71st anniversary of Her wedding - these do not show a frail person, in my opinion. Elderly maybe, but not frail.
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  #1177  
Old 11-20-2018, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
"I declare before you all that my whole life, whether it be long or short shall be devoted to your service” is a promise made by the then 21 year old Princess Elizabeth and she has renewed that vow over the years. That is what she believes her purpose is in life. The Queen actually could pretty much carry out her job as monarch doing the things that only the monarch can do pretty much from her bedroom wearing blue fuzzy slippers but like Philip, she prefers to keep an active lifestyle (how many 92 year old women do you know of that actually still ride). She is at the helm of what is called the "Firm" and "Team Windsor". This woman has an extraordinary zest for life and will keep on doing what she's doing for as long as she humanly can.

The word "abdicate" is *not* in her vocabulary.



Its also good hands on training for her family. As Charles is gradually getting to do things that his mother used to do, he's well prepared for his role as monarch. Same with William. He's learning the ropes to step into the role his father now has. The monarchy operates as a team with the most experienced Queen ever presiding at the helm of it all.
As an American citizen I wish our president had her devotion to duty. She did her duty but because of old age she slowing down. Prince Charles and other members of the royal family have take some of her duties. She deserves rest. The monarchy will.survive her loss.
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  #1178  
Old 11-20-2018, 04:46 PM
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we don't know tht. I think it will but Im not so sure it will outlast Charles' reign
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  #1179  
Old 11-20-2018, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by irish_royalist View Post
"Frail"??? Absolute nonsense - other adjectives which come to mind include sprightly, engaged and engaging, enthused, warm, amusing.
I invite you to view the photos and videos in the next thread, of HM's visit today to the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors on the 71st anniversary of Her wedding - these do not show a frail person, in my opinion. Elderly maybe, but not frail.
Pictures. Okay. Have you seen the welcome ceremony at Horse Guards Parade for the King? The passage into the banqueting hall? The Queen at the Festival of Remembrance on Saturday and then during the Cenotaph? She definitely looked frail, tired, breakable. And that is perfectly normal at such an advanced age.
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  #1180  
Old 11-20-2018, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Lunawalk View Post
As an American citizen I wish our president had her devotion to duty. She did her duty but because of old age she slowing down. Prince Charles and other members of the royal family have take some of her duties. She deserves rest. The monarchy will.survive her loss.
The British Royal Family has always worked supporting the monarch and what I do believe we're seeing now is a soft transition bit by bit between the reigns of Queen Elizabeth II and Charles III (he may choose another name but I seriously doubt it). This is a family that leaves absolutely nothing to chance and is well prepared ahead of time for anything

The fact remains that there are functions in this constitutional monarchy that *only* the Queen can perform and as I said earlier, the Queen could do those from her bedroom suite in blue fuzzy slippers if she wanted to. She chooses not to and chooses to remain active and up to date on anything involving her realm.

The way things have shaped up under the Queen's reign, of course the monarchy will continue but mark my words that when the time comes and HM, Queen Elizabeth II leaves us, the world will come to a standstill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Pictures. Okay. Have you seen the welcome ceremony at Horse Guards Parade for the King? The passage into the banqueting hall? The Queen at the Festival of Remembrance on Saturday and then during the Cenotaph? She definitely looked frail, tired, breakable. And that is perfectly normal at such an advanced age.
She walks more carefully and cautiously now due to bad knees. It was suggested not long ago that doctors were contemplating knee surgery but I've not heard anything more along those lines. Stairs are not her friend any longer and concessions have been made for her along those lines. In the majority of the pictures that I see though, HM still has a smile that will light up her face and light up a room. To me, she looks a lot younger than 92 years old.
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