The Queen: Would She Consider Abdication or Retirement?


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Nothing and like Charles he may reign for 10 years and leave little legacy.

The legacy he'll left will be the one he built as Prince of Wales. He's reign will be a bridge between the Queen's reign and William's reign.
 
It is a little disappointing that the Queen won't be at the Commonwealth meeting this year but it very understandable as she is 87. I don't think it has to do with any serious health issues but more with her advancing age and lot of heavy travel like that can be hard on you after you reach a certain age even if you can still move around on your own. even so she may be in good health she has look noticeably frail as of late which is normal in older years.

But I am still amaze even still how well she can still get around on her own! She is in better shape then my Great Grandmother who is also 87 (has a bad hip was able to move on her own up until 20 years ago and had to start using walker after she fill which has worsen in the last 10 years and she now can barely walk to the kitchen from the living room to the kitchen and need help getting around) not many 87 years old like that.

Elizabeth is still in better shape then her mother was at the same age in 1987 and even Queen Victoria at age 78 who had to stay in her carriage during the service of thanksgiving at her Diamond Jubilee because she was to frail to get up the stairs. .

This will be good for Elizabeth to reduce her engagements a little and for Charles (by the way it wasn't until the year after her Diamond Jubilee in 1898 that Victoria finally allowed Edward a active role in the running in the country as she slowed down a bit on her duties) The commonwealth meeting in November will give him a chance to kind of show what he has and give you a little glimpse of the day he becomes king. Charles will be a Good King. As I said before there are some similarities when it comes to Victoria/Edward and Elizabeth/Charles and the Second in line George/William. History is almost repeating itself.
 
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History is almost repeating itself.

Like always.

Queen Elizabeth II and Queen Victoria are very popular Queens, who reigned for a long time.

King George VII, like King Edward VII, will have a short reign, after the long reign of his mother. He'll make a surprisingly good job as King.

King William V, like King George V, will revolutionize the Monarchy, having Queen Catherine by his side, like King George V had Queen Mary by his side.
 
They said the same thing about King Edward VII, and he proved that those people were wrong, doing an excellent job as Monarch.

Royals are more liked at old age, the Prince of Wales will be a wonderful and popular old King.

What's the problem having a 80 years old King at his ascension? Before that, we'll have a 100 years old Queen.
You are right that Royals are like at Older age compared to being younger. Back in the 80s Charles and Diana were more liked then the Queen. Same way with Victoria, she was like early, not popular in her middle years and became popular again in the end while Edward was not as like as his son George. While Queen Elizabeth popularity dip at time she remained pretty well liked. Charles is that generation in the middle between the older generation (Elizabeth) and the younger generation (William). I bet there will be a time when Will and Kate child is older that William is bob it as like as his dad and child as he will be he middle generation.
 
The legacy he'll left will be the one he built as Prince of Wales. He's reign will be a bridge between the Queen's reign and William's reign.

This is exactly how I see it also. Charles has practically redefined the role of Prince of Wales and has given it a role of meaning. If you compare Charles to the previous Prince of Wales, Charles really has accomplished so much. William has spent his lifetime watching his dad and I would imagine already has a pretty good idea of what is expected of the heir apparent to the throne.

As many have said before, when Charles ascends the throne, he will have to rein himself in (pun intended) in and perhaps not be so outspoken has he has been on certain matters in the past and I would bet my last donut that he'll guide his son towards doing as involved of a job as Duke of Cornwall and possibly Prince of Wales that he did. Charles was always a hands on father and I expect that to continue in how he interacts with his sons while he is King.

Perhaps Charles' reign will be a short one and a bridge for William but lets face it. After Elizabeth's 60+ years on the throne, any reign that follows her will seem short.
 
Perhaps Charles' reign will be a short one and a bridge for William but lets face it. After Elizabeth's 60+ years on the throne, any reign that follows her will seem short.

For sure! Her Majesty's reign is longer than the reigns of her four predecessors together.

But the Prince of Wales has good genes, his mother is 87, and his father is 92, both strong, his grandmother died at 102. If he ascends at the age of 80, I can see him reign for 15 years or more.

I believe the time of Kings and Queens ascending at young age are over. Telegraph has a good article about this. Kate Middleton pregnant: 'silver monarchy' of elderly kings and queens predicted as Kate spends night in hospital - Telegraph
 
While young monarch maybe glamorous, it isn't always the best thing. Imagine if George vi had lived 10 more years to 1962 ( he would have been 66 ), Elizabeth would have more time with her young kids. Margaret may have turned out differently. I can see Charles doing events like Commonwealth Meetings and State Visits. W&K are going to have to pick up some of the work that the elder members such as Phillip, Alexandria & Duke of Kent. It will be interesting to see if William leaves the military altogether or takes an army desk job.

I do fear for the queen once Phillip dies, she could go downhill afterwards.
 
The only reason why The Queen became Queen at a young age was that her father didn't take care of his health and was a very heavy smoker and also a heavy drinker leading to lung cancer.

Charles on the other hand has always taken care of his health.

If he has the same length of life as his mother he will have a reign of 22 years - not far short of George V's.

Edward VII was extremely popular as King. He was a bit of a rogue and he gave the monarchy the pomp and circumstance we now associate with the monarchy - he was the reforming monarch in the 20th in many ways more than his son - who directed the royal family towards Britain and away from Europe after WWI whereas his father embraced Europe but also took a lot of time to reinvent the monarchy after the 40 years of his mother's widowhood with the 'season' we now think of with the BRF.

William may very well be in his 60s or so when he becomes King. He will face calls for the throne to pass over him to his baby and the cycle will continue.

Not only will William have to leave the military but so will Harry as he too will be needed sooner rather than later.
 
Whether the Queen abdicates or not (she wont) , isn't really the issue. Charles is almost 65, he is looked upon by many younger people as being part of the old guard. You either like him or you don't. I don't think anyone can really know the state of HM's health but the longer she reigns, the more damage it does to Charles when he eventually does become King.

I think the longer she reigns the better it is for Charles. The longer things go, the less and less people remember the 90's. And he has even more time to soften and improve his image, which he's done a pretty good job of doing over the years, all things considered.
 
Just when I was starting to think I prefer the Dutch system of abdication (which I admire and respect and think is a good thing) along come the State Opening of Parliament attended by the Queen and the heir to the throne to symbolise the gradual and very slowly paced transition from one monarch another as a reminder that I have faith in the British way!
 
Just when I was starting to think I prefer the Dutch system of abdication (which I admire and respect and think is a good thing) along come the State Opening of Parliament attended by the Queen and the heir to the throne to symbolise the gradual and very slowly paced transition from one monarch another as a reminder that I have faith in the British way!

jacknch, just a question: Suppose that old age actually caught up with QEII for everyone to see? Suppose dementia or Alzheimer's set in? What would you think of such a scenario and what could the palace do about it? I understand that HM has taken good care of herself and that she's probably been taken good care of, she's not aged like your average 87-year old. Still, old age is bound to catch up with her at some point.

viv
 
The Regency Act sets out exactly what would happen if The Queen became mentally incapcitated.

Three set people have to sign the relevant documents to declare her incapable of mentally carrying out her duties and Charles would become Prince Regent.

The idea of him being Prince Regent while The Queen is mentally capable is a different scenario to one to it happening if she is menatlly incapable.
 
jacknch, just a question: Suppose that old age actually caught up with QEII for everyone to see? Suppose dementia or Alzheimer's set in? What would you think of such a scenario and what could the palace do about it? I understand that HM has taken good care of herself and that she's probably been taken good care of, she's not aged like your average 87-year old. Still, old age is bound to catch up with her at some point.

viv

If dementia (Alzheimer's being the most common form) set in then the Queen could not abdicate. In order to abdicate the person doing so must be of sound mind and fully knowledgeable of what it is that he or she is doing.

Fortunately, there is a system already in place to account for a monarch who is not capable of ruling, due to them being of infirm mind or body, or unavailable for a definite cause - the regency. If a time at which point HM is unable to carry out her duties as monarch then there will be a declaration of incapacity and Prince Charles will be made Prince Regent.
 
:previous:
Maybe dementia light has set in at my end - now I remember having
read about the Regency Act :)! I suppose the Act has not been used on this side of the Sache- Coburg-Gothas!?

viv
 
The last time a Regency was needed was with George III but there have been various Regency Acts since then to cover underage children and unfit monarchs.
 
Yesterday, as I watched the beginnings of the State Opening of Parliament, I thought to myself for the first time, that the Queen really is starting to appear 'old'.
But then I watched her professionalism during the ceremony, and listened to her unwavering voice as she delivered The Speech, and then saw the pictures of her 'eyeing up' the horses at the Windsor Horse Show - and I just thought, this Lady really is something else!
I think we have become a bit distracted over the past few days with talk of a regency and CHOGM meetings and overseas travel - but we need to remember that Our Queen is still doing a fantastic job, and will continue to do so for as long as she is humanly able.
 
:previous: The Queen always appears older at State Opening. Not only this year but any previous years.You see pics of any year, she appears older than her corresponding age. Lemme tell u why..
1.See, naturally, anyone appears older when wearing glasses.
2.Upon that there is the crown, robes and all, and she cant walk freely. She has to get over even those 2-3 steps very cautiously. This can always be mistaken for fraility
3.She cant even sit down freely, has to adjust her robe carefully before doing do..
4.Same struggle again while leaving the hall.
5.She has to remain very serious throughout (to give the neutral appearance),
6.While walking in the procession the DoE holds her hand in such a way as if she cant walk without his support..
7.And upon that, all the old Lords in their wigs, and the old ladies-in-Waiting, all make her look much much older.
So all these things give us an image that she is very tired and "not so healthy". But actually in the recent Thatcher funeral both The Queen and DoE appeared so fit and robust..more than in any recent times..
So appearances can be deceiving at times.
But such things are enough for our media to switch on the "resignation/Regency/withdrawal mode"..
 
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the queen wont abdicate, it is not in her upbringing when in South Africa in 1946 she pledged whether her whole life be long or short she would dedicate herself to us. It would be unthinkable to her to abdicate. Charles will be another edward 7th with a short reign.
 
This is a good article from the Sunday Times on the current changes quietly being undertaken by the BRF in preparing for the time when Charles becomes King (although it is assumed that this is someway off)

I pondered on where this link belonged because it is about halting the views about abdication; the health of the monarch and Prince Philip; the preparation of Charles; the acceptance of Camilla etc.

If it is in the wrong place - then mods, please feel free to move it.

Changing the old guard at the palace | The Sunday Times
 
This is a good article from the Sunday Times on the current changes quietly being undertaken by the BRF in preparing for the time when Charles becomes King (although it is assumed that this is someway off)

I pondered on where this link belonged because it is about halting the views about abdication; the health of the monarch and Prince Philip; the preparation of Charles; the acceptance of Camilla etc.

If it is in the wrong place - then mods, please feel free to move it.

Changing the old guard at the palace | The Sunday Times

This looks to be an interesting article but unfortunately unless I subscribe, I can't read the entire article. Could you perhaps give a synopsis of all the article said?
 
^^^ I had that same problem.
 
Sorry - here is a synopsis

CHANGING THE OLD GUARD AT THE PALACE

Subtle shifts within the royal family are preparing Charles for his role as king — but his past attempts to wield influence hint at trouble ahead


For monarchy, symbolism is everything. So what better place to put the new royal order on display than the state opening of parliament, the glitziest and highest-profile event in the Queen’s annual calendar?
As she read — with the occasional uncharacteristic stumble — the government’s legislative programme last week, the Queen was accompanied not just by the Duke of Edinburgh but also, for the first time, by Charles and Camilla.

The message of this unprecedented new line-up in the House of Lords was clear: change is afoot at the top of “the Firm”.

What a difference a year makes. The diamond jubilee celebrations last June — culminating in the royal barge’s progress down a rain-swept Thames — were very much the Queen’s affair.

In retrospect, however, the four-day event will be seen to have been a turning point in the history of the monarchy and a milestone on the way to the post-Elizabethan era.

Consider what has happened since: first, there has been the inevitable deterioration in Prince Philip’s health, followed by the abandonment by the Queen of a trip to Italy in March after she, too, was hospitalised suffering from what the palace described as “the symptoms of gastroenteritis”.

Then there has been the growing public profile of Princes William and Harry.

Most significant of all, there was the announcement on the eve of the Queen’s speech that Charles would take her place at the Commonwealth heads of government meeting in Sri Lanka in November.

It will be the first such summit the Queen has missed in the past 40 years and an indication, perhaps, that Charles is attempting to stake a claim to becoming the future head of the Commonwealth, a role that will not automatically be his when he finally succeeds his mother.

A generational change is under way in the House of Windsor; the birth this summer of the third in line to the throne will add to this impression. Quite how fast this change will happen and what form it will take only the next few months will tell.

First what will not happen: the Queen, 87, has no intention of going Dutch.....

Nor, as the Queen’s aides insisted last week, can there be any question of tinkering with the rules to allow Charles to take over any time soon as regent — which at present can happen only in the case of the monarch being formally declared incapable of discharging her duties.

The palace is at pains to insist the Queen is in robust health. “The Queen was out riding last weekend so there is absolutely no suggestion that there are any underlying health problems and she has not ruled out the possibility of taking a long-haul trip in the future,”

Still, it was notable that there was not the usual announcement of forthcoming foreign tours at the end of her speech. Could none be planned?

A probable future scenario, according to palace aides, is instead a more subtle, creeping change in the structure of the Firm. According to one palace insider, we are looking at the prospect of the royal family changing by a process of “evolution” rather than “revolution”. As another puts it: it will be “more of a merger than a takeover”.

What of the Firm’s chief-executive-in-waiting? For years it was thought that the main shadow over the reign of the future King Charles III would be cast by his consort.

At the time when he married the then Camilla Parker Bowles in 2005, she was still widely reviled for her role in the break-up of his marriage to Diana. A delicate PR job has succeeded in rehabilitating the image of the Duchess of Cornwall in the eyes of the public. Following sound advice from aides, Camilla has backed charities close to her heart, refusing to become merely a “letter-head patron” of causes she knows nothing about.
Among many others she chose literacy, because she loves reading and wants more people to enjoy it, and domestic abuse and osteoporosis because she wants to help other women and her mother was afflicted with the latter.

The duchess is clearly more popular than she was; that being said, only 16% of people questioned in a YouGov poll for The Sunday Times this weekend think she should be given the title of “queen”, against 46% who would prefer her simply to be “princess consort”.

Charles’s popularity is on the rise. The same poll shows that 50% think he will be a good king when the time comes — compared with 37% when the same question was asked in May last year.

Nevertheless, questions still remain about his behaviour. As the longest-serving heir to the throne, Charles, who will turn 65 in November, has had to create a role for himself as Prince of Wales.

The Queen came to the throne so young — she was just 25 — that she had no need to give much thought to her role as heir. As the decades have passed, Charles has considered it his duty to speak his mind and stand up for the causes he believes in.

In the past few years he has toned down his pronouncements. Once he denounced modern architecture and also alarmed the medical establishment with praise for homeopathic medicine.
In recent months, by contrast, he has stood in as a weather forecaster during a trip to the BBC Scotland studios and guest edited an episode of the BBC’s Countryfile programme. Not exactly controversial.

There are, nevertheless, still occasional flashes of his old, more combative self: last week he used a speech given at St James’s Palace to criticise “corporate lobbyists” and climate change sceptics whom he accused of turning the Earth into a “dying patient”.

More potentially damaging are his attempts to wield influence behind the scenes. Today the prince has a member of his staff seconded to the Cabinet Office and one of its civil servants is working for him. This handy exchange means that the government will learn his views and he can better understand what it is working on.

The shadow hanging over him is the spectre of the so-called “black spider memos”, the hand-written letters dashed off by the prince to ministers over the years containing what are believed to be trenchant expressions of his views.

The Queen has scrupulously kept her own views to herself during her 61 years on the throne. Charles will probably do the same from now on; the real problem is that pile of “particularly frank” memos already out there that could yet come back to haunt him.

The Prince of Wales may have looked the part last week, dressed like his father in an admiral’s uniform, clanking with medals. But no transition at a family firm, however well planned, is ever completely seamless. This one is unlikely to prove to be an exception.


END

I've highlighted the pieces in bold in the text. IT is the first time overseas visits have been omitted from the Queen speech; and the staff exchange with the Cabinet office is controversial.
 
Cepe, thanks for providing both the article and the synopsis.

While it's interesting, I wonder at times if we're reading a bit too much into the "symbolism" of current events. Yes Charles is stepping up, but him doing things for his mother isn't a new concept, nor is him being trained to be king a new concept - all of this has been going on for years, recent events are just a bit more in-your-face.

To me this seems like simply a natural course of events; HM is elderly, and while still able to do what is (in my opinion) the core elements of her role, travel presents an increasing threat to her health and abilities, so she's going to limit what she does and send Charles more. Similarly, she's likely to do fewer engagements and to let Charles take on a larger public role. That doesn't mean she's abdicating or retiring, it just means she's cutting back - something that people often suggest she does on this board, and which makes sense given her age.

To me, so long as HM can do the red boxes, state events, and periodic engagements, I don't see why she should abdicate or have a regency established.
 
Yu are correct - it is the natural course of events. BUT, in the same way we know our parents will get old, then older, then possibly frail and then pass away - each stage is a shock.

We all know that HMQ is 87 but it is still surprising/shock etc when decisions are made and changes implemented based on that.

At the beginning of last year, the general view in the UK is that she would last for ever. Now people aren't so sure.
 
MORE and more people think the Queen should step down from the throne if she becomes

The Queen must step down if she

Meanwhile, exactly half said the Prince of Wales would make a good king, which is 13 percentage points higher than a similar survey a year ago.
Only 23 per cent thought he would not, down from 37 per cent last May.
But only 16 per cent say that Camilla, the Duchess of Cornwall, should become queen


The younger generation is even more popular, with 85 per cent believing Prince William made a positive contribution to the Royal Family.
The respective figures for the Duchess of Cambridge and Prince Harry are 79 per cent and 72 per cent.
Pretty good numbers for Charles and William has long been the most popular member of the BRF, surpassing the Queen in her Jubilee Year of 2012. Catherine and Harry are very popular as well but what are we to make of Camilla's numbers? It seems this Princess Consort issue is becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. Only 16 percent in favour of her being Queen with 11 percent saying she should have no title

Queen should abdicate if too ill to rule: UK poll
 
The Queen must step down if she

Pretty good numbers for Charles and William has long been the most popular member of the BRF, surpassing the Queen in her Jubilee Year of 2012. Catherine and Harry are very popular as well but what are we to make of Camilla's numbers? It seems this Princess Consort issue is becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. Only 16 percent in favour of her being Queen with 11 percent saying she should have no title

Queen should abdicate if too ill to rule: UK poll

Sorry but where in any of the information you provided does it state more and more people want the Queen to abdicate?
 
Sorry but where in any of the information you provided does it state more and more people want the Queen to abdicate?

It says
While a majority 53 per cent of voters still believe the 87-year-old monarch should rule for life, only a minority of 43 per cent said she should continue even if she was too ill to continue.

43% say she shouldn't abdicate if too ill to continue so the interpretation some people put on that is that 57% want her to abdicate in that scenario.

There are other possible answers - don't know or don't care.

The next sentence clarifies that even more
a solid 48 per cent believed she should stand down in those circumstances and allow the throne to pass to her heirs, the Sunday Times survey conducted by YouGov this week found.

So not the interpretation is clearer - not a definite majority want her to abdicate if she is too ill to continue but more people want her to abdicate rather than stay if she can't do the job properly.

There are 9% undecided of course.

Then the next paragraph shows this
The latest figures mark a turnaround from March when 51 per cent thought she should carry on even if she were ill and other members of the royal family had to take over many of her duties.

So this sentence is showing that the figure supporting her staying on when she can't perform properly has dropped 8% since March - in within a two month period.

The full poll is here http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploa...G-Archive-Pol-Sunday-Times-results-100513.pdf and the royal questions are on pp. 9 - 10
 
The results of opinion polls are irrelevant. The Queen won't abdicate and Charles will be King. Camilla is automatically Queen Consort.
 
The results of the poll maybe irrelevant but that doesn't change the fact that the questions were asked and that the answers are showing a change in people's opinions.
 
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