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  #401  
Old 07-09-2020, 02:17 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Originally Posted by Fijiro View Post
A person with sufficient stature?! All that is needed is a competent person. There are such major nations/unions and we cannot name their heads without googling. Such as the European Union (27 countries), African Union (55 countries), Arab Union (22 countries). Member Nations do have equal rights, and the leadership is elected from member countries.

Not so with the Commonwealth of Nations (53 countries), for the over 70+ years of its existence, they’ve been led by the British Royal Family, where does the British Empire end and the Commonwealth of Nations begin. According to Commonwealth declaration, members are “free and equal”, but are they equal?
Well there's quite a lot to unpack here but I'll give it a go.....

The headship of the Commonwealth is a purely symbolic position which is distinct from those other organisations you mention. In the Commonwealth the comparable position would be the Secretary General.

Members of the Commonwealth have an equal say in choosing the head. So in that sense the Commonwealth gives a disproportionate vote to developing smaller countries like the Caribbean & Pacific island nations.

How are they not equal? Do you mean economically? They all have an equal voice in the governance of the Commonwealth. I can't think of any way that they do not. You are I presume referring to the London Declaration of 1949? There have been a number of Commonwealth declarations over the decades.

The background to the London Declaration was the decision by India to become a republic but to continue to recognise the king as HofC. It was if anything a good example that former colonies like India were now sovereign states as fully equal in international affairs as the UK.
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  #402  
Old 07-09-2020, 02:28 PM
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Just throwing this into the mix in case anyone is interested. There is a really good book that goes into depth about the Queen and the Commonwealth of Nations. Its called "Queen of the World" by Robert Hardman and was released in 2018.
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  #403  
Old 07-09-2020, 02:34 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Just throwing this into the mix in case anyone is interested. There is a really good book that goes into depth about the Queen and the Commonwealth of Nations. Its called "Queen of the World" by Robert Hardman and was released in 2018.
Thank you for reminding me. There's an accompanying documentary as well:

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  #404  
Old 07-09-2020, 03:39 PM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by Durham View Post
Well there's quite a lot to unpack here but I'll give it a go.....

The headship of the Commonwealth is a purely symbolic position which is distinct from those other organisations you mention. In the Commonwealth the comparable position would be the Secretary General.

Members of the Commonwealth have an equal say in choosing the head. So in that sense the Commonwealth gives a disproportionate vote to developing smaller countries like the Caribbean & Pacific island nations.

How are they not equal? Do you mean economically? They all have an equal voice in the governance of the Commonwealth. I can't think of any way that they do not. You are I presume referring to the London Declaration of 1949? There have been a number of Commonwealth declarations over the decades.

The background to the London Declaration was the decision by India to become a republic but to continue to recognise the king as HofC. It was if anything a good example that former colonies like India were now sovereign states as fully equal in international affairs as the UK.



Fijiro has a point though. The next reign would have been a good opportunity to pick a Head of the Commonwealth other than Prince Charles, possibly on a rotating basis with a new Head being chosen from a different country every 5 years or so.



I guess the CHoGM settled on Charles, who was not the automatic choice, partly in deference to the current Queen, but also because they still see the British RF as more impartial and more broadly representative of the Commonwealth as a whole than any nominee from the individual Commonwealth governments would be.
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  #405  
Old 07-09-2020, 04:26 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Fijiro has a point though. The next reign would have been a good opportunity to pick a Head of the Commonwealth other than Prince Charles, possibly on a rotating basis with a new Head being chosen from a different country every 5 years or so.



I guess the CHoGM settled on Charles, who was not the automatic choice, partly in deference to the current Queen, but also because they still see the British RF as more impartial and more broadly representative of the Commonwealth as a whole than any nominee from the individual Commonwealth governments would be.
I thought the point being made was that member nations were unequal in the Commonwealth decision making process? Which is untrue.

I agree that the Commonwealth missed an opportunity to do something different & choose someone other than the next British monarch. A rotating head is certainly an idea as would be a fixed term headship.

It sounds plausible that members wanted to please The Queen, although if they did they made a mistake in my opinion. One solution to the representative question might be to invite nominations from only one (geographic?) bloc every time there is a vacancy. This to be taken by in turn by blocs. This to be then followed by a secret ballot of members at CHOGM. The impartiality issue might be somewhat addressed by encouraging nominations from eminent Commonwealth citizens rather than politicians current or former. This is after all how realm GG's are chosen.

The only new issue to consider would be whether this position would come with a residence (in what location?) & salary/expenses. And what exactly would a head do for most their time?
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  #406  
Old 07-09-2020, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durham View Post
I thought the point being made was that member nations were unequal in the Commonwealth decision making process? Which is untrue.

I agree that the Commonwealth missed an opportunity to do something different & choose someone other than the next British monarch. A rotating head is certainly an idea as would be a fixed term headship.

It sounds plausible that members wanted to please The Queen, although if they did they made a mistake in my opinion. One solution to the representative question might be to invite nominations from only one (geographic?) bloc every time there is a vacancy. This to be taken by in turn by blocs. This to be then followed by a secret ballot of members at CHOGM. The impartiality issue might be somewhat addressed by encouraging nominations from eminent Commonwealth citizens rather than politicians current or former. This is after all how realm GG's are chosen.

The only new issue to consider would be whether this position would come with a residence (in what location?) & salary/expenses. And what exactly would a head do for most their time?
Thatís what they donít want have to worry about now. Itís not really even a part time job and does not justify any costs associated with it (residence, salary and expenses, security)
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  #407  
Old 07-09-2020, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post
Thatís what they donít want have to worry about now. Itís not really even a part time job and does not justify any costs associated with it (residence, salary and expenses, security)
Yes indeed. I suppose we could describe it as seasonal work.
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  #408  
Old 07-09-2020, 06:15 PM
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Well the Queen's role is as a figure head, there is a Secretary-General who is head of the secretariat and a Chair-in-Office who is the Head of the government which last hosted the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting, currently Boris Johnson but open to any of the Commonwealth nations at some point.
The role of the Queen and in time Charles is to be a figure head, a point person, in reality yes they could just get rid of that role all together and leave it to the Secretary General and Chair in Office. But would it have the draw and appeal without the Queen or her successor in place, probably not. Would it get out of hand and become far to political, almost certainly. I don't mind saying I'm quite happy if at least once every two years these rather big headed government leaders have to go and place second fiddle to a sovereign who cares about people and the impact decisions have on people rather than polls and reelection.

I hope there isn't going to be any negative outcomes of recent comments.
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  #409  
Old 08-01-2020, 09:39 AM
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It is to the interes of england and the Uk to make active the common wealth and turn all common wealth members to states of the common wealth main reason the pulled out of the Eu,this will Give her Majesty control of 30%percent of the world under one state and economic value where she will regulate 60 percent of work commodities and cash crops the Future of england and the new beginnning to a royal allianze which will create more regents in her various collonies now states,she will posses the waters as our future is submarine.and thecommon wealth will intergrate creating free movement and of goods and immigration,but the lobying has to be Now and every common wealth member minister of state would have to move to London.
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  #410  
Old 09-16-2020, 01:47 AM
eya eya is offline
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Barbados has announced its intention to remove the Queen as its head of state and become a republic next year.


https://royalcentral.co.uk/uk/queen/...behind-149246/
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  #411  
Old 09-16-2020, 03:42 AM
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It's a shame if that happens. Jamaica has also flagged such a transition, with prime minister Andrew Holness saying it is a priority of his government.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ome-a-republic
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  #412  
Old 09-16-2020, 05:36 AM
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How ungrateful!
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  #413  
Old 09-16-2020, 06:12 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eya View Post
Barbados has announced its intention to remove the Queen as its head of state and become a republic next year.


https://royalcentral.co.uk/uk/queen/...behind-149246/

Both Barbados and Jamaica have been indicating a transition to a republic for quite some time. I am surprised , however, that Barbados chose to do it in the current Queen's reign. That was unexpected.

Eventually Australia and New Zealand will follow too, maybe even Canada, but it will take a few decades probably.
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  #414  
Old 09-16-2020, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Minister of Court View Post
How ungrateful!
What is ungrateful about it? They have a right to choose wahtever form of government they want
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  #415  
Old 09-16-2020, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Both Barbados and Jamaica have been indicating a transition to a republic for quite some time. I am surprised , however, that Barbados chose to do it in the current Queen's reign. That was unexpected.

Eventually Australia and New Zealand will follow too, maybe even Canada, but it will take a few decades probably.
I do think there will be a referendum for Australia (2nd one, after 1999), New Zealand and Canada for question on becoming a Republic. I doubt it would happen for now, but perhaps (as you mentioned) few decades later. If not a referendum, probably a general/federal election where a large political party would remove the British Monarch as the head of state, if they won a majority or able to form a coalition in Parliament.

For Barbados and Jamaica, according the Guardian article (https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ome-a-republic) and Royal Central (https://royalcentral.co.uk/uk/queen/...behind-149246/), this decision came primarily from the governor general without a referendum or plebiscite (I might be wrong here). I think the question is now focus on whether or not Barbados and Jamaica will remain in the Commonwealth if they become Republic.
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  #416  
Old 09-16-2020, 09:48 AM
Majesty
 
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As far as Australia is concerned no Federal government majority, however large, has the power to remove the Head of State. Such a move requires changing our (written) Constitution. A referendum will have to be held, and IMO it will take place sooner than in a few decades. It's more probable within King Charles's reign, perhaps ten years or a bit less.

Why would Jamaica and Barbados decide to leave the Commonwealth if they become republics? The vast majority of countries in the Commonwealth are republics.
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  #417  
Old 09-16-2020, 10:03 AM
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This isn't a big surprise. The previous government announced the same thing in 2015, and it's been floating around as a serious proposal since at least the 1990s. I can't find anything saying why it failed to materialize last time, though, so I don't know how likely it actually is this time. It requires a two-thirds majority in both houses of the Barbadian parliament, but the proposal in 2015 was from a prime minister of the other party, so there doesn't seem to be any partisan disagreement about whether Barbados should become a republic. (Perhaps there's disagreement about the form of the republic, I don't know.)
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  #418  
Old 09-16-2020, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
What is ungrateful about it? They have a right to choose wahtever form of government they want
Ungracious at least. What's the great hurry? They couldn't hold off until the end of the Queen's reign? Sadly, that time is not going to be all that far off.
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  #419  
Old 09-16-2020, 10:09 AM
Aristocracy
 
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
As far as Australia is concerned no Federal government majority, however large, has the power to remove the Head of State. Such a move requires changing our (written) Constitution. A referendum will have to be held, and IMO it will take place sooner than in a few decades. It's more probable within King Charles's reign, perhaps ten years or a bit less.

Why would Jamaica and Barbados decide to leave the Commonwealth if they become republics? The vast majority of countries in the Commonwealth are republics.
How are they considered republics if they're Commonwealth countries?
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  #420  
Old 09-16-2020, 10:18 AM
Majesty
 
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They are countries that have their own Head of State, but joined the Commonwealth family/organisation, sometimes decades ago. India for example, which has a President. They acknowledge that the Queen is the ceremonial Head of the Commonwealth but not their particular HOS. There are 54 states in the Commonwealth but the Queen heads only 16 of them at the moment, including Australia.
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