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  #301  
Old 08-28-2019, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Beyond belief. I would have said: "My Lords, your zest for the interest of Our People is well known and appreciated . Said Motion will be taken into Our Consideration. And hereby We command you in the Lord's holy protection".

That leaves the monarch time to have ample counsel on the Motion. At least she can give the impression it was deeply reviewed and considered on all merits.

But just a buzzer, a nod, "approved" and that was it for the UK's most turbulent legislation? Good heavens. This has exposed the monarchy as completely useless. Even the label "defender of the Constitution" can not be glued on them because they just are the PM's Ape Theatre : throw a nickel, and we perform a dance for you.
The day any British monarch refuses a PM is the day Britain becomes a republic.
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  #302  
Old 08-28-2019, 07:13 PM
Madame Verseau's Avatar
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I can't believe the queen's role in suspending Parliament. The pound took a hit but recovered most of the loses

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...suspended.html

There will be uncertainty in the markets for a while but the royals need to watch their step with their extravagance. I mean all of them. Stories of designers dresses and expensive jewels will not be a good look for any royal woman at this time. Will the Sussex and Cambridge tours be called off?
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  #303  
Old 08-28-2019, 07:26 PM
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There is nothing to not believe, the Queen had no choice but to act, not in a sense of moral rights etc, literally had she not have accepted the PMs request that would have been a constitutional crisis. She hasn't chosen to do anything, she did what was expected of her. If you can't believe anything I would suggest not believing that the Government put the Sovereign in this position.

No the tours will certainly not be called off. If anything it is what the RF will want to show - business as usual and how important a role the RF have with foreign relations.

There is no need for the royals to watch their extravagance, the country needing to sell off the family silver just yet. Of course IMO the royals should never flaunt their wealth and after a torrid few months of stories regarding some of the family I hope there is a sense from all of pulling together to put their best face on and to make the headline only for the right reasons. Make the Queen proud of them.
  #304  
Old 08-28-2019, 08:27 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
The crisis would be if she didn’t listen to the Prime Minister
Exactly

The British people know who is to blame and that it isn't HM. They know she has to take the advice of her PM and Privy Council and that is what she had done.
  #305  
Old 08-28-2019, 08:59 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Alastair Bruce described the meeting on Sky news.

He said Jacob Rees-Mogg and the two other privy councillors were picked up at the airport and brought to the castle. They’re met by the Queen’s equerry and lady in waiting. The Queen is in the library waiting and when she’s ready she presses a buzzer and the politicians are brought in.

They stand before a table with a red cloth over it and a candle in the centre. The Lord President of the Council reads out the motion and The Queen nods her head and says “approved”.

That’s it. The politicians fly back to London and the Queen goes back to enjoying her holiday.
Out of curiosity, how does he know this?
  #306  
Old 08-28-2019, 09:13 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
I can't believe the queen's role in suspending Parliament. The pound took a hit but recovered most of the loses

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...suspended.html

There will be uncertainty in the markets for a while but the royals need to watch their step with their extravagance. I mean all of them. Stories of designers dresses and expensive jewels will not be a good look for any royal woman at this time. Will the Sussex and Cambridge tours be called off?
No tours will be called off - not Charles' to Japan, Charles and Camilla's to New Zealand, the Cambrides to Pakistan nor the Sussexes to Southern Africa.

Recycling outfits would be a good look. The only exception I would have allowed would have been if Camilla was going to Japan with Charles as the enthronement ceremony would have demanded a new dress for Camilla but as she isn't going there is no need for most of the women to have a new wardrobe.
  #307  
Old 08-28-2019, 09:17 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarlita View Post
I have never heard the word prorogue before so had to look it up.
Means; to suspend parliament with dissolving it.
EDIT; sorry i should have said. Discontinue a session of parliament.

I hope we don't have to have a crash course in constitutional law of the UK to understand the coming days and weeks.
I know the British don't have a written constitution as such and use precedence instead. All very confusing at tmes.
Your own parliament in Australia is based on the Westminster model I believe. Certainly in Canada we know the word 'prorogue' well as former prime minister Stephen Harper (also a Conservative) prorogued Parliament not once but twice in 2010 and 2013
  #308  
Old 08-28-2019, 09:37 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarlita View Post
I have never heard the word prorogue before so had to look it up.
Means; to suspend parliament with dissolving it.
EDIT; sorry i should have said. Discontinue a session of parliament.

I hope we don't have to have a crash course in constitutional law of the UK to understand the coming days and weeks.
I know the British don't have a written constitution as such and use precedence instead. All very confusing at tmes.
I am surprised that you have never heard the term when the GG prorogued the Australian parliament as recently as March this year when the election was called. The NSW governor also had to prorogued the NSW government this year in the lead up to the NSW election.

It happens all the time in the UK - usually every year between the end of one session and the State Opening of Parliament to start the next session.

It is simply the official term to end the session of parliament. In Australia it is followed by an election so only happens federally every three years and at state level it varies by state.
  #309  
Old 08-28-2019, 11:42 PM
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Ok thank you for that. Obviously I have been living under a mushroom for a long time. I have never heard it used before.
  #310  
Old 08-29-2019, 03:46 AM
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It is true that The Queen has to taken the counsel of the Prime Minister. But this Prime Minister has no majority on his own and only with support of the DUP they have a majority of ONE vote. Taking into account the highly controversial time-path and the October 31 deadline, the Queen could have delayed it by holding it into Her Most Excellent Majesty's gracious consideration indeed and request to receive other politicians in audience.

Most likely this would not have changed anything, but at least it would have given the impression the Queen has held it in serious consideration and has finally approved with the Motion to prorogue Parliament.

But this: on her holiday destination, waiting in the library, buzzzzz, three gentlemen come forward, the Queen nods and says "approved" and that was it. In Spain, the Netherlands or Norway, the King could have requested to see the Leader of the Opposition at the palace, to hear his/her opinion. They can command a special Council. They can discuss it with the Prime Minister in a second audience. But just approve like this: it is as if she has just hired a new cleaner for the bathrooms at Balmoral. A nod and "approved".
  #311  
Old 08-29-2019, 04:28 AM
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^ You give little credit to a diligent Monarch of over 67 years, if you imagine HMQ gave as little consideration to this, as if she were hiring a domestic !

Her application to her constitutional role is generally unquestioned, but I understand that you [especially] seem to struggle with the plain fact that the UK does things differently from Continental Europe [and always has]
  #312  
Old 08-29-2019, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
^ You give little credit to a diligent Monarch of over 67 years, if you imagine HMQ gave as little consideration to this, as if she were hiring a domestic !

Her application to her constitutional role is generally unquestioned, but I understand that you [especially] seem to struggle with the plain fact that the UK does things differently from Continental Europe [and always has].

Indeed it is it is because of this, that we are come to the path of separation with the political choices made by the EU..
No it isn't but we can't discuss it here because this isn't a political thread. Also, don't send me another private message.
  #313  
Old 08-29-2019, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
It is true that The Queen has to taken the counsel of the Prime Minister. But this Prime Minister has no majority on his own and only with support of the DUP they have a majority of ONE vote. Taking into account the highly controversial time-path and the October 31 deadline, the Queen could have delayed it by holding it into Her Most Excellent Majesty's gracious consideration indeed and request to receive other politicians in audience.

Most likely this would not have changed anything, but at least it would have given the impression the Queen has held it in serious consideration and has finally approved with the Motion to prorogue Parliament.

But this: on her holiday destination, waiting in the library, buzzzzz, three gentlemen come forward, the Queen nods and says "approved" and that was it. In Spain, the Netherlands or Norway, the King could have requested to see the Leader of the Opposition at the palace, to hear his/her opinion. They can command a special Council. They can discuss it with the Prime Minister in a second audience. But just approve like this: it is as if she has just hired a new cleaner for the bathrooms at Balmoral. A nod and "approved".

The reality is this has been a possibility for a long time, it has been suggested by many and discussed in the media. I suspect therefore that the Queen's senior advisors have discussed what to do and how to deal with it well before now. The swiftness of the action is perhaps an attempt to play up the mechanicalness of the action, if the Queen were to ponder it, discuss with others, then she makes it her decision. The way it has been done emphasises that this is a constitutional mechanism of the sovereign rather than the Queen's personal decision.
  #314  
Old 08-29-2019, 06:29 AM
Majesty
 
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According to the Court Circular The Queen held a Council at 12.30pm. There were present:

Jacob Rees-Mogg (Lord President)

Baroness Evans of Bowes (Leader of the House of Lords & Lord Privy Seal)

Mark Spencer (Parliamentary Sec to the Treasury & Chief Whip)

Richard Tilbrook (Clerk of the Council)

Also: The Rt Hon Jacob Rees-Mogg MP had an audience of Her Majesty before the Council.
  #315  
Old 08-29-2019, 06:44 AM
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Anyway. It is an eventful time. To use an understatement. I hoped the Queen would come up for the rights of "Her People", represented by the duly elected Members of the House of Commons. The UK WILL leave the EU. But how? Now in the period when it matters most, Parliament is kaltgestellt for 5 weeks. But I see she had no any room to manoeuvre in this.
  #316  
Old 08-29-2019, 07:18 AM
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Actually at this junction, the Queen has fulfilled her constitutional role and the formality of the the "request" was "approved" by the Queen and signed, sealed and delivered. There is absolutely nothing more that she could have done, did or will do. That's her role as a constitutional monarch.

Its all up to Parliament now to decide whether to follow (using song lyrics) the yellow brick road, take the long way home or make something out of nothing at all.

Reminds me a Chinese curse. "May you live in interesting times".
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  #317  
Old 08-29-2019, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
It is true that The Queen has to taken the counsel of the Prime Minister. But this Prime Minister has no majority on his own and only with support of the DUP they have a majority of ONE vote. Taking into account the highly controversial time-path and the October 31 deadline, the Queen could have delayed it by holding it into Her Most Excellent Majesty's gracious consideration indeed and request to receive other politicians in audience.
Thanks so much for this very clear description of her ultimate lack of choice in final decision. I've read so many analyses that never actually say this succinctly.

I'm in the part of the club that believe this was discussed at length and all due diligence done well before Boris baby made the request. I've always thought HM is strongly motivated to never do drama. And her way to avoid drama in this case was to be well thought in advance and to get on with it.

For sure, QEII was not the creator of this mess. Bless her constancy and excellent leadership IMO. In the end people are getting what they voted for. Maybe we all need to be more deliberate in thinking through our future votes.
Long live the Queen!
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  #318  
Old 08-29-2019, 09:04 AM
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Let's move on from discussing Brexit and proffering political points of view on that subject - further posts of that nature will be deleted.

With regard to the recent and continuing Parliamentary / Constitutional events, we may discuss this to the extent and in the context of the Queen's involvement and obligations.
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  #319  
Old 08-29-2019, 09:22 AM
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I find myself thinking how hard HM must have found this. She is perfectly aware of the consequences of this action and I think political pundits would be hard pressed to find a situation or political machinations that she couldn't see coming and has seen all the vainglorious plots and counter-plots before in one way or another.

I would even venture to say she gave Boris a serious talking to before she was finally able to leave for Balmoral. Unlike many MP's, I wouldn't mind betting that her boxes are well read and, on occasion discussed with Charles who also is in receipt of boxes.
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  #320  
Old 08-29-2019, 09:31 AM
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When does the Prime Minister make the traditional trip to Balmoral for the weekend?

In some ways I can't help but wonder if the Queen and her aides would rather it was all kept quite low key this time around.
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