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  #201  
Old 07-13-2019, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
Actually for another delay of Brexit it needs the Ok of all tghe other EU Heads of goverment. If only one of them doen not agree that wil be it. So if the don't agree for it the UK will leave with a hard Brexit on 31.10 and the british Parliament can do nothjing against ot.



Yes, but the EU has repeatedly said that, if new circumstances arise, for example if a second referendum or a UK general election are called, an extension will be granted.
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  #202  
Old 07-13-2019, 03:53 PM
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Thanks.

I didn't realize the British PM could call an end of a Parliamentary session.
I believe in most other countries that's the prerogative of Speaker (and/or the Presidium of the Parliament.)

But as pointed out before the dilemma still stands.
It's IMO still tantamount to a coup, if the PM calls an end of the Parliamentary session in the middle of a national crisis! Especially if the outcome of the crisis is, as a consequence of that, what he desires! I.e. a hard Brexit.
He would seriously risk ending up in the Tower for that one!

Without a crystal ball I can safely predict that the reaction in EU (and no doubt elsewhere) would be: Have they gone collectively mad?!?

Are there any precedence within the past 150 years of a British PM, calling an end to a Parliamentary session in the middle of a major crisis?
If so, what happened?
If not, would there be calls for QEII to refuse such a request?

I mean QEII is not just signing bills for fun. She is potentially the last guarantee for democracy, before things may turn really ugly! After all a number of dictators were democratically elected...
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  #203  
Old 07-13-2019, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Yes, but the EU has repeatedly said that, if new circumstances arise, for example if a second referendum or a UK general election are called, an extension will be granted.

Yes that waht was meant with the delay to 31.10. And what does the Uk do. They need 2 months time to select a new PM.
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  #204  
Old 07-13-2019, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post

Are there any precedence within the past 150 years of a British PM, calling an end to a Parliamentary session in the middle of a major crisis?
If so, what happened?
If not, would there be calls for QEII to refuse such a request?
In 1948. It seems though that it was done with agreement (except for the Lords)

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-07-11/...-does-it-mean/

The second example though given in the piece above, of Charles I proroguing Parliament, had the most extreme outcome.

I donít think the Queen would act against the advice of her Prime Minister. It sets a very dangerous precedent. She cannot involve herself in politics no matter how much she agrees or disagrees with what is proposed.

She can certainly warn her Prime Minister that it would be a dangerous thing to do and would almost certainly lead to a vote of no confidence. A vote which a Prime Minister with a razor thin majority, dependent on the votes of another party and not well liked by some in his own party, could very easily loose.
  #205  
Old 07-13-2019, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
I should like to know what these conditions were.

And congratulations on your first 5.000 posts.
Muhler, former Canadian prime minister Stephen Harper prorogued parliament no less than four times between 2007 and 2013. Each time he sought the approval of the governor general, who consented to the prime minister's request. The only 'conditions' were that parliament be resumed within a specified time frame. There is a precedent to the governor general's compliance; all Canadian history students know the King-Byng constitutional crisis of 1926 when then prime minister William Lyon Mackenzie King asked the governor general of the time, Lord Byng of Vimy, to prorogue parliament so that elections could be called. Lord Byng refused and asked opposition leader Arthur Meighen to form a government instead. To make a long story short, eventually Meighen's government was defeated and Mackenzie King won the ensuing elections on the issue of British interference in Canadian politics!
Interestingly, there are rumours in the Canadian press that Stephen Harper is being approached to help the next British prime minister negotiate the terms of Brexit..... Very interesting times for political geeks like me
  #206  
Old 07-14-2019, 01:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictoriaB View Post
In 1948. It seems though that it was done with agreement (except for the Lords)

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-07-11/...-does-it-mean/

The second example though given in the piece above, of Charles I proroguing Parliament, had the most extreme outcome.

I don’t think the Queen would act against the advice of her Prime Minister. It sets a very dangerous precedent. She cannot involve herself in politics no matter how much she agrees or disagrees with what is proposed.

She can certainly warn her Prime Minister that it would be a dangerous thing to do and would almost certainly lead to a vote of no confidence. A vote which a Prime Minister with a razor thin majority, dependent on the votes of another party and not well liked by some in his own party, could very easily loose.
They would roll him in tar and feathers before kicking him out of the Commons, I imagine. If Boris Johnson really tried something so idiotic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gerry View Post
Muhler, former Canadian prime minister Stephen Harper prorogued parliament no less than four times between 2007 and 2013. Each time he sought the approval of the governor general, who consented to the prime minister's request. The only 'conditions' were that parliament be resumed within a specified time frame. There is a precedent to the governor general's compliance; all Canadian history students know the King-Byng constitutional crisis of 1926 when then prime minister William Lyon Mackenzie King asked the governor general of the time, Lord Byng of Vimy, to prorogue parliament so that elections could be called. Lord Byng refused and asked opposition leader Arthur Meighen to form a government instead. To make a long story short, eventually Meighen's government was defeated and Mackenzie King won the ensuing elections on the issue of British interference in Canadian politics!
Interestingly, there are rumours in the Canadian press that Stephen Harper is being approached to help the next British prime minister negotiate the terms of Brexit..... Very interesting times for political geeks like me
So that was basically a "time out" requested by Stephen Harper?
Wow, Lord Byng trying to dictate politics! I guess the "rules" weren't as set in stone as they are today.
It is of course somewhat off topic in this thread, but I'm sure the new PM, whoever it may be, could need all the help he could get!
As Stefan pointed out, they have wasted two whole months in picking a new PM!! And the clock is ticking...
A new PM will in reality have less than a month to negotiate anything with EU.

Thanks for explaining the concept of proroguing. It has been most interesting and educational for me, and I'm sure others as well.
  #207  
Old 07-14-2019, 11:46 AM
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As to those who say the Queen cannot voice her opinions on the current political situations I firmly believe she lets her thoughts be known in a clear and succinct way during her weekly meetings with the PM.

I mean the PM would be an arrogant fool if he or she thought HM was irrelevant. I mean you simply cannot ignore a resource of over six decades worth of political knowledge, diplomatic vaguarities and personal experience shared with no dog in the fight so to speak.
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  #208  
Old 07-14-2019, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
As to those who say the Queen cannot voice her opinions on the current political situations I firmly believe she lets her thoughts be known in a clear and succinct way during her weekly meetings with the PM.

I mean the PM would be an arrogant fool if he or she thought HM was irrelevant. I mean you simply cannot ignore a resource of over six decades worth of political knowledge, diplomatic vaguarities and personal experience shared with no dog in the fight so to speak.
Well, if anyone had the brass to do that, I would say it would be Mr. Johnson.

Just sayin'
  #209  
Old 07-14-2019, 12:20 PM
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I imagine for most Prime Minister's the Queen simply saying in private she doesn't think its a good idea is enough. The Queen appears to have an effect on most Prime Ministers so hopefully, if he does become the next PM, Mr Johnson won't be any different.
  #210  
Old 07-14-2019, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
So that was basically a "time out" requested by Stephen Harper?
Wow, Lord Byng trying to dictate politics! I guess the "rules" weren't as set in stone as they are today.
It is of course somewhat off topic in this thread, but I'm sure the new PM, whoever it may be, could need all the help he could get!
As Stefan pointed out, they have wasted two whole months in picking a new PM!! And the clock is ticking...
A new PM will in reality have less than a month to negotiate anything with EU.

Thanks for explaining the concept of proroguing. It has been most interesting and educational for me, and I'm sure others as well.

It wasn't that simple; the first time Harper had parliament prorogued it was to avoid a vote of non-confidence that was being plotted by a coalition of the other parties in parliament. The election had just happened in October with Harper's government winning a minority and by December the other parties were working together against him. The GG agreed to a prorogation under the condition that there would still be a confidence matter (the budget) once parliament resumed in January. The delay was just to give the government time to find ways to compromise with the Liberals and avoid a vote of non-confidence. The second time he had parliament prorogued it was officially just to close parliament at a time when it was usually open (through the winter) because of the 2010 Olympics in Vancouver.


Other prorogations that have happened - in 1873 under MacDonald and in 2002 under Chretien - were because of scandals that the PM was involved in and lead to both men resigning.


The King-Byng affair was not Byng playing politics, rather him refusing to let King do so. An election in October 1925 lead to King and his party essentially losing - they won 101 seats in parliament while the Conservatives won 116. King refused to resign as PM, despite losing his own seat, and instead convinced Byng to let him form a government with the support of a third party, the Progressives. By June King had alienated the Progressives to the point that they would no longer support them, so King asked Byng to dissolve parliament and call an election - Byng refused to do so, and instead got Meighen to form a Conservative government. At the time, however, convention dictated that MPs appointed as Cabinet Ministers would resign their seats and run for re-election - an act which would weaken Meighen's government, so instead of appointing Cabinet Ministers he appointed "acting ministers", thus avoiding any need for re-elections. King and the Liberals were able to use this to get the Progressives' support to bring down the Conservatives and force Byng to have to call an election that September (less than a year after the previous one). This time the Liberals won the most seats (although still not a majority) and were able to form a government without any quasi-coalition.
  #211  
Old 07-24-2019, 05:11 AM
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Theresa May will visit The Queen around 2pm today to formally resign as Prime Minister, a short time after that The Queen will (presumably) call Boris Johnson to an audience to formally become her new Prime Minister.

Interestingly all media outlets are saying the audiences will take place at Buckingham Palace, even though the Summer Opening is currently underway.
  #212  
Old 07-24-2019, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
I imagine for most Prime Minister's the Queen simply saying in private she doesn't think its a good idea is enough. The Queen appears to have an effect on most Prime Ministers so hopefully, if he does become the next PM, Mr Johnson won't be any different.
I don't quite see that. the queen has the rigt ot warn but the PM is not obliged to take her advice
  #213  
Old 07-24-2019, 06:52 AM
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The Queen could technically sack her Prime Minister, the way it works is all really one big circle
  #214  
Old 07-24-2019, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Theresa May will visit The Queen around 2pm today to formally resign as Prime Minister, a short time after that The Queen will (presumably) call Boris Johnson to an audience to formally become her new Prime Minister.



As far as I understand, before submitting his (or her) resignation, the departing Prime Minister advises the Queen on who she should appoint as the next PM. The Queen then follows the advice.


Some Tory rebels according to the papers were apparently hoping that the Queen could be persuaded not to appoint Boris Johnson on the grounds that he would be unlikely to command a majority in the House of Commons. That is not up to the Queen to decide a priori though (at least IMHO) and I am 100 % sure that she won't be dragged into that kind of speculation.



After the enactment of the Fixed-Term Parliaments Act, there is a proper procedure for the House of Commons to topple Boris Johnson and none of it involves the Queen making political calls. First, the House has to pass, by a plurality only, a motion of no confidence in Her Majesty's government. There is a period then of 14 days for the House to pass a motion of confidence in Her Majesty's government, again by a plurality only. Presumably, that period exists to attempt the formation of an alternative government.



If the 14-day period expires without a motion of confidence being passed, then a general election has to be held on a date appointed by the Queen by proclamation on recommendation of the PM (that is also explicitly mentioned in the law). Parliament is then automatically dissolved 25 working days before the date set for the election.



Note that the former royal prerogative to dissolve Parliament has now been legally abolished in the UK, so the Queen's involvement in the process, which was already minor, is now minimal. In fact, as explained above, it reduces to calling a legally mandated election on a date set by the PM in the cases when an early election is required by law to be held.
  #215  
Old 07-24-2019, 10:09 AM
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Buckingham Palace: "The Right Honourable Theresa May MP had an Audience of The Queen this afternoon and tendered her resignation as Prime Minister and First Lord of the Treasury, which Her Majesty was graciously pleased to accept."
  #216  
Old 07-24-2019, 10:42 AM
eya eya is offline
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Queen Elizabeth welcomes newly elected leader of the Conservative party Boris Johnson during an audience in Buckingham Palace, today, where she invited him to become Prime Minister and form a new government.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EAP5npbV...name=4096x4096

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EAP2jWCU...jpg&name=large
  #217  
Old 07-24-2019, 10:43 AM
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Boris Johnson has left Buckingham Palace having been appointed as Prime Minister by HM, her 14th Prime Minister.

Although its "job done" for HM, there is a strong possibility she will stay around until tomorrow to allow new Secretaries of State etc to official take office during a special meeting of the Privy Council.

The convoy carrying Boris Johnson to the Palace was briefly delayed by Greenpeace protestors on the Mall but it was cleared by the police outriders.

Then HM can go and enjoy her holiday. She will host Prime Minister Johnson during the first weekend in September when he will be invited to attend the traditional PM weekend to Balmoral.

A super day for those who booked the right tickets to visit Buckingham Palace's summer opening, a number of them were able to stand and watch the arrivals/departures of the outgoing and new PM from inside the Quadrangle.
  #218  
Old 07-24-2019, 10:45 AM
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Buckingham Palace: The Queen received in Audience The Right Honourable Boris Johnson MP this afternoon and requested him to form a new Administration. Mr Johnson accepted Her Majesty's offer and kissed hands upon his appointment as Prime Minister and First Lord of the Treasury.


* Pic *
  #219  
Old 07-24-2019, 10:59 AM
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Great to see how the constitution works and how the Queen stays above partisan politics.

I donít know if PM Johnson will last long ( nobody knows really), but, if he does, I suspect he will get along very well with the Queen and, hopefully, she will be able to impart some of her wisdom and experience on him.
  #220  
Old 07-24-2019, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
A super day for those who booked the right tickets to visit Buckingham Palace's summer opening, a number of them were able to stand and watch the arrivals/departures of the outgoing and new PM from inside the Quadrangle.
I thought BP was only open for August and September?
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