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  #821  
Old 11-27-2017, 05:07 PM
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The other challenge for a Republic is that it is not just the Commonwealth of Australia (CofA) would need to become a republic but each state is a monarchy in its own right. The Australian States/Colonies were monarchies before the CofA or the seperate Australian realm were created and in law retained soveriegnty in all areas not specifically enumerated in the constitution as having been given to the CofA(and their individual crowns were not included) So each states will have to change their systems as well. Each could remain monarchies even if the CofA was not.

I do have another query though, how is the Queen monarch of an individual state? Victoria was Queen of say, Victoria, before Australia existed, and Elizabeth II might remain Queen of Queensland after her Australian realm is extinguished. How is Her Majesty soveriegn over each Australian state, through which title does she take on this role?

The reason I ask is to do with the current situation with Section 44 and allegiance to a foreign power. The Aus. High Court has ruled that allegiance to the Queen of the UK, NZ, or Can is allegiance to a foreign power. So if the Queen, is queen of the states because is she Queen of the UK, would that create an allegiance to a foriegn power, if a Australian in a state owed allegiance through their state to her Majesty because is she is Queen of the UK? (Hope the last bit made sense)
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  #822  
Old 11-27-2017, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Clayden View Post
The other challenge for a Republic is that it is not just the Commonwealth of Australia (CofA) would need to become a republic but each state is a monarchy in its own right. The Australian States/Colonies were monarchies before the CofA or the seperate Australian realm were created and in law retained soveriegnty in all areas not specifically enumerated in the constitution as having been given to the CofA(and their individual crowns were not included) So each states will have to change their systems as well. Each could remain monarchies even if the CofA was not.

I do have another query though, how is the Queen monarch of an individual state? Victoria was Queen of say, Victoria, before Australia existed, and Elizabeth II might remain Queen of Queensland after her Australian realm is extinguished. How is Her Majesty soveriegn over each Australian state, through which title does she take on this role?

The reason I ask is to do with the current situation with Section 44 and allegiance to a foreign power. The Aus. High Court has ruled that allegiance to the Queen of the UK, NZ, or Can is allegiance to a foreign power. So if the Queen, is queen of the states because is she Queen of the UK, would that create an allegiance to a foriegn power, if a Australian in a state owed allegiance through their state to her Majesty because is she is Queen of the UK? (Hope the last bit made sense)
I believe that is a non-issue as the traditional legal doctrine in the Commonwealth is that the Queen of Australia and the Queen of the UK (or Canada, or New Zealand, etc.) are separate legal entitities. In fact, the Queen of Australia could declare war on the Queen of the UK and vice-versa. Their meaning in the law should not be confused with the physical person Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Windsor.
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  #823  
Old 11-27-2017, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I believe that is a non-issue as the traditional legal doctrine in the Commonwealth is that the Queen of Australia and the Queen of the UK (or Canada, or New Zealand, etc.) are separate legal entitities. In fact, the Queen of Australia could declare war on the Queen of the UK and vice-versa. Their meaning in the law should not be confused with the physical person Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Windsor.
Mbruno,

Thanks for your reply, I was aware that the monarch in each realm is a distinct legal entity. Australia is different to the other remaining realms as the rest are unitary states, with the exception of Canada where the provinces have Lt Governers, who are appointed by Can GG on advice from Can PM under the Can consitution. However Australian states have fully fledged Governers appointed directly by Her Majesty from advice of each State Premier with no reference to the Commonwealth government.

So my first quesiton is, how is QEII soveriegn over each state, if the monarchies of each state existed before and can exist after the Australian realm?
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  #824  
Old 11-27-2017, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Anthony Clayden View Post
Mbruno,

Thanks for your reply, I was aware that the monarch in each realm is a distinct legal entity. Australia is different to the other remaining realms as the rest are unitary states, with the exception of Canada where the provinces have Lt Governers, who are appointed by Can GG on advice from Can PM under the Can consitution. However Australian states have fully fledged Governers appointed directly by Her Majesty from advice of each State Premier with no reference to the Commonwealth government.

So my first quesiton is, how is QEII soveriegn over each state, if the monarchies of each state existed before and can exist after the Australian realm?


I would think QEII is sovereign over each Australian state, independent of each other, in the same way that she is sovereign of each Realm, independent of each other. That is, the Queen of Queensland is a legal entity separate from the Queen of New South Wales, etc.

My understanding of the way things work in Australia is that each state is its own sovereign entity, and that the federal government only has power over what the states do not deal with.

This is different from Canada, where the provinces are not sovereign entities, but rather have some autonomy granted to them by the federal government. Thus, there is no Queen of British Columbia, but rather a Queen of Canada who has a representative in British Columbia.
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  #825  
Old 11-27-2017, 08:15 PM
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Australia becomes a republic but Queensland remains a monarchy (not an inconceivable outcome, given QLD and WA liking to be different from the rest of the country). A Qlder would then be owe allegiance to the President of Australia, over things the Commonwealth was sovereign for and the Crown of Qld represented by HM EII for things the state of Qld is sovereign over.

I'm not sure there such a thing as the Queen of Queensland, the states were never sepearate realms, they were self governing crown colonies (or dominions). The Crown of a colony\state was the person who was monarch of the UK. I presume the Australia Act might have addressed these issue but I'm not sure thought it a possible outcome when it ws drafted.
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  #826  
Old 11-27-2017, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Anthony Clayden View Post
Australia becomes a republic but Queensland remains a monarchy (not an inconceivable outcome, given QLD and WA liking to be different from the rest of the country). A Qlder would then be owe allegiance to the President of Australia, over things the Commonwealth was sovereign for and the Crown of Qld represented by HM EII for things the state of Qld is sovereign over.

I'm not sure there such a thing as the Queen of Queensland, the states were never sepearate realms, they were self governing crown colonies (or dominions). The Crown of a colony\state was the person who was monarch of the UK. I presume the Australia Act might have addressed these issue but I'm not sure thought it a possible outcome when it ws drafted.
There is indeed legally no such entity as the Queen of Queensland, or any other Australian state, today, but there is no stretch to imagine that being the case in the future, which is why the whole republican whine is slightly a moot point. If politicians had any foresight, they would let this thought sit with people themselves, and if the mood at some point has sufficiently changed across the nation as a whole, they can grab the issue and run with it, but as it stands today, it's a very risky project. The Australian federation would most likely survive a successful republican project, but several states, such as Queensland and Western Australia would most likely reject the republic, and their allegiance on a state level, would therefore fall to a monarch as a state, and towards a president on a federal level.
It might seem an odd construction, but it's similar to how states in various federations around the world operate, allegiance to different leaders on different levels. There are local monarchs in states in Malaysia and the UAE, while another leader heads the federation as a whole. Given both Queenslands and WAs usual direction of differing from the other states on such issues, and experiences from the previous referendum, it's not inconceivable that the Queen in effect would end up as head of more governments than she currently is, although both Queensland and WA would not necessarily become independent states and add to the total number of Commonwealth realms.
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  #827  
Old 04-02-2018, 06:20 PM
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Does the Prime Minister of Australia have a weekly audience with the Governor-General like in Britain?
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  #828  
Old 04-02-2018, 06:27 PM
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He/She certainly meets with the GG (as do the State Premiers with the respective Governors). Whether it is weekly would depend on whether there was anything to disucss (the same as in the UK where it isn't actually 'weekly' but 'weekly when Parliament is sitting' or at other times as necessary).
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  #829  
Old 04-22-2018, 05:24 AM
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An photo made available by the Australia Department of Treasury on 22 April 2018 shows a new effigy of Queen Elizabeth soon to be circulated on Australian coins. The federal government says a new effigy of Queen Elizabeth , designed by British Royal Mint's engraver Jody Clark, will be rolled out and is expected to be seen on 2019-dated coins.

https://api.profimedia.com/data/larg...0369301360.jpg
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  #830  
Old 08-25-2018, 03:45 AM
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A new PM in Australia;
Australia has a new prime minister again after Scott Morrison wins historic party room ballot | Daily Mail Online
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  #831  
Old 08-25-2018, 04:47 AM
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Historic? Barely! This is our 6th prime minister in 11 years!
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  #832  
Old 05-28-2020, 09:27 PM
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The High Court has ruled that correspondence between the Queen and Sir John Kerr dealing with the dismissal of PM Gough Whitlam is not personal correspondence and therefore the National Archives must consider whether a member of the public (In this case a historian) should have access to them.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/high...28-p54x9l.html
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  #833  
Old 05-29-2020, 03:12 AM
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If these letters reveal any interference - or even suggestion of interference by the monarch in Australian affairs it will be the final nail in the coffin for the monarchy in Australia.

I suspect they will be like Charles' spider letters - rather nondescript and say things like - follow the advice of the PM and the constitution of Australia. Anything more and she would have been exceeding her political role.
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  #834  
Old 05-29-2020, 03:28 AM
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The High Court has ruled that correspondence between the Queen and Sir John Kerr dealing with the dismissal of PM Gough Whitlam is not personal correspondence and therefore the National Archives must consider whether a member of the public (In this case a historian) should have access to them.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/high...28-p54x9l.html
Honestly, Wouldn’t anything really incriminating have been destroyed by now, if it ever existed in the first place? I agree with Iluvbertie, its spider memos 2.0.
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  #835  
Old 07-13-2020, 09:22 AM
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"Dramatic" revelations expected as private correspondence between the Queen, her Private Secretary and the Governor General in connection to the dismissal of the Whitlam government in 1975 is due to be released imminently.



https://www.theguardian.com/australi...ment-dismissed


That will be interesting to see.
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  #836  
Old 07-13-2020, 09:43 AM
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Isn’t this being touted as another “spider paper” that Charles was involved in?

Much ado about nothing.
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  #837  
Old 07-13-2020, 09:58 AM
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Isn’t this being touted as another “spider paper” that Charles was involved in?

Much ado about nothing.

Not quite, because it is not about organic farming or modern architecture, but rather exchanges between the Sovereign and her vice-regal representative in Australia related to a specific constitutional crisis (one which BTW is said to have triggered the modern republican movement in Australia).


Republicans of course will look for clues that the Queen was not neutral in the dispute and favored the Labor government's removal from office.
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  #838  
Old 07-13-2020, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Not quite, because it is not about organic farming or modern architecture, but rather exchanges between the Sovereign and her vice-regal representative in Australia related to a specific constitutional crisis (one which BTW is said to have triggered the modern republican movement in Australia).


Republicans of course will look for clues that the Queen was not neutral in the dispute and favored the Labor government's removal from office.


My apologies I should have explained my sentence further, I didn’t necessarily mean the topic at hand was similar more that the situation is looking similar in that it turns out to be nothing.

However I’m unawares as to the surrounding, would love to hear Iluvberties take on it.
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  #839  
Old 07-13-2020, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
My apologies I should have explained my sentence further, I didn’t necessarily mean the topic at hand was similar more that the situation is looking similar in that it turns out to be nothing.

However I’m unawares as to the surrounding, would love to hear Iluvberties take on it.

The letters are due to be released tomorrow in Australia, I think, which actually means tonight for us who are on the opposite side of the world. So I guess we will know soon if it is much ado about nothing, or not.
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  #840  
Old 07-13-2020, 10:10 AM
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These letters could be very important and the historian who has brought this case believes they will show a great deal as I understand it.

It appears there are over 200 letters amounting to around 1200 pages ... but many of those pages are newspaper clippings etc so how much is actually the Queen's own words - or those of her Private Secretary at the time as his letters are supposed to be included.

If the letters are anything more that basically 'follow the Australian constitution' or 'follow the advice of your Prime Minister' they will give a massive boost to the republican movement but if they are more circumspect it mightn't make that big a difference.

I have set my TV news channels to cover this when they are released but we may not really know much for a day or so - until someone, presumably the historian has actually bothered to read them.
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