The Duke of Edinburgh In Car Accident at Sandringham: January 17, 2019

[ladongas]

So true. For some elderly, they consider it as family members or authorities trying to take their independence away.

For SOME elderly? For most of them! I’ve had to do this twice.

My sister, 1500 miles away, called to tell me that our mother had randomly driven to a town she did not know about 200 miles away. The police called my sister and said they would keep her there until she could be picked up. Both my sister and her husband then left work and drove 4 hours there and 4 hours back to bring her and her car home.

My feisty mother refused to consider giving up driving (she was nearly 85, and had always been a safe driver). So I had to fly down there and enforce it. Not pleasant, but we couldn’t be sure she wouldn’t do the same thing again, and we couldn’t be sure that she wouldn’t forget other things while driving, like not pulling out in front of cars that had the right of way, or driving through red lights or stop signs.

We felt that we would be responsible if she caused harm to herself or others by continuing to drive. And how many times would she have to be retrieved from strange towns far away?

My 90-year-old FIL turned left out of traffic and was t-boned by an oncoming car he didn’t see coming. No injuries, the cops drove him home, he hung up his keys for good, drank a glass of brandy, and called us. He didn’t need to be told his driving days were over. And his genius brain continued til the end of his life, but his eyesight and reflexes did not.

The Duke’s family needs to take the lead on this before something else happens. He will not be inconvenienced, and he will appear more dignified if he retires from driving with grace.

 

[Denville]

I feel badly for her, even if her choices of the last few days have not been the best. The British press is very good at luring unsuspecting people in so that they can be built up and then torn back down. She seems to be following that arc now. I don't think the next few days are going to be very pleasant for her, especially if some reporter digs up some irrelevant foible from her personal life.

if she doesn't know how the British press operates...… by now....

 

[MsJulie]

I can understand the Prince or Royal Family not contacting the parties in the other car. I was hit, LE said and my insurance company said not to talk to or contact the other party, other then giving them my insurance sompany name. Let the insurance companies talk and contact each other.

This may be what is happening, it is behind the scene, which we are not privileged to hear, insurance companies talking and waiting for LE report. The lady talking could really mess things up in many ways.

 

[M. Payton]

I for one wanted to give this woman the benefit that she was very upset and in shock and did not know what she was doing in talking to the media,(been in her situation) I did not want to crucify her and did not want anyone else to either........since she went into hiding and is apparently talking to and taking advice from someone who knows nothing about the BRF and the media on how they operate, she is now doing a great job of crucifying herself...... this is not going to play out well for any party be they the royal family or this woman. If the driver of the car was a friend and is not talking she would be a better friend to tell her friend to shut the hell up and let the insurance companies take care of business....she is beginning to sound like someone down in Florida wanting attention and money and contact with the BRF......they do not do tea with just anybody from what I have seen over the years....

 

[Thena]

I did a quick search on social media to see how people are reacting to Ms. Fairweather's latest interviews, and the nicest comments I could find were "shut up Emma." It seems that sentiment is quickly turning against her.

Do normal people (like you and me) have lawyers?

Or did she seek legal counsel after the accident? And if so, why? Wouldn't insurance companies normally arrange all of this, so no lawyer involved/needed?

Well, I might not be totally normal since I'm from a family of lawyers.

The insurance company of the driver/owner of the car would definitely have taken the lead on this so no lawyer would have been needed. However, Ms. Fairweather really should have sought out a lawyer on her own before speaking to the media. Here in the United States, there's a number of personal injury lawyers who advertise on radio, television, and highway billboards, so it would not be hard to find one.

 

[Muhler]

Just to be clear, how does it work in Britain when you are having a car accident like this, involving three parties?
I ask because quite a few here refer to how it is in other countries.

We have driver A. (The Duke.) He is insured.
Driver B. (The mother.) She is also insured.
Passenger C. (Ms. Fairweather.)
And a fictional passenger D. Who for the sake of argument does not have a basic insurance covering accidents. Nor is she covered by other insurance companies, like her her employer. And for the sake or argument, she broke her foot and due to complications is sick from her job for three months.

What happens now?
When will a civil lawsuit come in? If it comes in at all.
What damages can the persons in question expect? A very rough estimate will do.

 

[Lumutqueen]

BTW how does the system work in Britain, if you are on sick leave very shortly after getting a new job, do you get compensation?

Usually as you're in a probationary period of about 3 months, you aren't entitled to any sick pay in that period from the company. Statutory sick pay which comes from the government starts from the minute you're registered as an employee, you must be ill for four consecutive days before you can claim. You also need a doctors note.

However usually when you start a new job you are in the probationary period you have a shorter notice period on both sides, so the company Ms Fairweather works for can just say we don't want you to come back. Depends on the company, and what job she does.

Just to be clear, how does it work in Britain when you are having a car accident like this, involving three parties?
I ask because quite a few here refer to how it is in other countries.
We have driver A. (The Duke.) He is insured.
Driver B. (The mother.) She is also insured.
Passenger C. (Ms. Fairweather.)
And a fictional passenger D. Who for the sake of argument does not have a basic insurance covering accidents. Nor is she covered by other insurance companies, like her her employer. And for the sake or argument, she broke her foot and due to complications is sick from her job for three months.

What happens now?
When will a civil lawsuit come in? If it comes in at all.
What damages can the persons in question expect? A rough estimate will do.

Unfortunately it is very much dependent on a number of factors that are hard to predict. Mostly it comes down to liability, which is easier to ascertain if someone admits or it is quite clear they were at fault.

It also depends on whether the driver wishes to go through insurance companies at all, as before insurance companies can make weird decisions and it can go from being 100% one way, to 50/50 which means they both have to fork out for their own repairs. When if The Duke for instance offered to fix the damage privately, then it's much easier. Driver B also doesn't lose their no claims discount, which depending on how long she's been driving can have an impact on the price of her insurance.

Passenger A, again her outcome depends on whether insurers are brought into the matter. If it goes 50/50, she's likely not to have a leg to stand on. If it's settled outside of the insurers, then she can claim that's Philip admitting responsibility and perhaps go to a "no win no fee" lawyer for whiplash, but I doubt someones going to pick that case up considering what they're up against. The insurances companies have adjusted quite dramatically to deal with the rise of whiplash claims in the recent years.

I don't think we'll see any real movement on the situation for a couple of weeks. It's quite clear the mother doesn't want to be involved in the situation Ms Fairweather is making for herself.

Just gone on google and typed in "car injury compensation payouts", thousands of results but the first one allowed me to "calculate my claim". Broken wrist for Ms Fairweather can get her anywhere from £5,600 to £18,620.

 

[sndral]

Even if the car was driving 60 miles an hour; 150 yards should be enough to break and not hit the other car. However, I seem to recall that they had not expected him to pull up. I am sure all of this will be taken into account in the investigation (that will most likely be executed more thoroughly than normally because his royal highness is involved).

I haven’t seen the passenger’s interview, but seeing a vehicle waiting to merge is not the same as saying the vehicle pulled onto the road 150 yards ahead. Here’s the stopping distance numbers
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/learning-to-drive/stopping-distances/
I can’t tell from the photos whether the Kia left any skid marks prior to impact, and civilian eye witnesses are remarkably bad at estimating distances, so I wouldn’t take the passenger’s statement too literally, particularly in trying to reconstruct what happened. From what we do know and what I’ve seen in the photos it doesn’t seem the Kia had much time to brake or take evasive action.
The Kia had the right of way, Phillip admitted that he did not see the other vehicle which he blamed on sun glare, so it’s not really a case of Phillip seeing the other car and thinking that he had enough time to safely enter the roadway and being wrong because the Kia was traveling faster than he thought.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

It is interesting, as Osipi has pointed out, that it just seems to be Emma Fairweather raising her voice about the crash (she appeared on This Morning today apparently). I haven't heard any comments from anyone else involved in the crash apart from the man who helped Philip up after his car had turned over.
Without wanting to start a whole Diana discussion, I am surprised that the royal staff and advisors aren't more hot on seatbelt usage with the BRF since Diana's death. Especially when it comes to older members like HM and Philip who may be more prone to serious accidents in a crash.

 

[Pranter]

It wouldn't matter if someone was 'on to' the DoE about it or not...he's going to do what he's going to do. Like most people quite frankly.

Plus older people too as they start to lose some of their autonomy will hold on really hard to the things they can do/control.


LaRae

 

[ladongas]

Most families at least attempt to do something rather than just hoping for the best. It’s unpleasant to do it, but irresponsible to ignore it.

 

[Pranter]

There's only so much a family can actually do if the person passes all their driving/eye tests. They do have rights even when they are elderly.


LaRae

 

[Ista]

I can't imagine what anyone could do to get Prince Philip to listen to reason if he chooses not to. Not only is he an adult, and likely operating with all his marbles, but he is known to be impatient, arrogant, and resistant to anything that restricts him. He doesn't even take his PPO along in the car with him, which is a huge no-no. I suspect since he has retired, he no longer has any intention of doing anything he doesn't want to, and no longer considers himself bound by any responsibility to appease public perceptions. What we have here, ladies and gentlemen, is a 97 year old loose cannon

 

[Osipi]

The way I see it, right now, before the investigation into the accident has concluded is that the only real no-no that Philip has done was drive on public roads without a seat belt on. That is something that should be insisted on.

Glaring sunlight can cause any age driver to not be able to see as we've seen examples of in this thread. If it is ruled as an unavoidable accident due to the harsh sunlight, then there's no reason that Philip should have to give up driving. If, by any means, the ruling comes out that Philip was at fault and could have avoided the accident and it was negligence on Philip's part (for not wearing sunglasses or using a sun visor etc), then there's just cause to hang up the keys.

If having a mishap on the road in a moving vehicle is a reason to take away driving privileges, I think the roads would be quite less jammed with traffic.

 

[Lilyflo]

Prince Philip 'drives like he's only one on road' and is 'notorious in Sandringham'

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/prince-philip-drives-like-hes-13882714

 

[ladongas]

With a reputation of being a careless driver, the Duke might also be vulnerable to being “set up” in a staged accident.

I don’t know about the UK, but in the states a person can be called in to take a drivers test if concerns are raised by a doctor, law enforcement, or family. My mother got called in, but failed to respond. She eventually got a letter that her license was suspended. (I was the one who raised the concern to the DMV, but she thought it was my sister, and I didn’t confess it was me.)

This is interesting:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motorin...derly-relatives-if-theyre-unfit-to-drive.html

 

[Muhler]

Thank you, Lumutqueen

So if Ms. Fairweather has had a bad period behind her and is likely to lose her new job, with little compensation now that she is recovering, it is I think, reasonable to assume that her financial situation may very well be strained. Until some sort of compensation is awarded, which may take up to several months I presume.
She so to speak have just clawed her way back up from a hole, and now she's back.
The lure of telling her story for money, even if it may eventually backfire, is perhaps difficult for her to resist.

The rough compensations you laid out, seem reasonable to me, but it's hardly something you can live off for life!
It's basically only enough to cover lost income, medication, expenses for special treatment (like a physiotherapist or psychologist) and a little extra to soothe the pain a bit.

Prince Philip 'drives like he's only one on road' and is 'notorious in Sandringham'

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/prince-philip-drives-like-hes-13882714

Such stories are inevitable to surface.

But an anonymous, former tenant? How far does this person score on the credibility scale? I'll be generous and give him three out of ten.

 

[Ista]

But there are other people in the article who were named, and who had similar (but also unverifiable) stories to tell that tend to have a similar theme. And honestly, considering what we know about Prince Philip, those stories don't surprise me much. I'd be much more surprised to find out he was unfailingly courteous on the road, and had never had a close call.

I suppose that now these kinds of stories are coming out, others might come forward to either refute them or support them.

 

[COUNTESS]

At the risk of opening a discussion on an only remotely connected matter, the same point was made after Diana's death but, unfortunately, we are now 21 years on and the Queen and Duke still do not appear to wear seat belts. And if they do wear lap belts that just cannot be seen, it would be easy for the Palace to have put out a statement within the last couple of days while the latest kerfuffle has been ongoing, setting the record straight.

Lap belts are not a good alternative. They will not stop a real forward projection, hence the invention of the seat belts that are used today. Only fools drive without seatbelts. On their property or not. You can get seriously hurt anywhere. Diana died because of her foolish action or lack thereof. If your nation has a law that they must be used, how can the Head of State flaunt that.

 

[shopgirl44]

Why is everyone quick to blame the DoE’s age as the cause of accident? As far as we know, there is no result of the investigation yet.

 

[Queen Claude]

The passenger said in her interview they saw the Land Rover coming out of the junction some 150 yards away. Shouldn’t they be braking when they saw it pulling out? How can the Kia over turn a heavy armoured Land Rover? This woman better make sure she’s not saying anything inconsistent on her different media interviews or she might ruin her friend’s insurance claims.

Not sure how it is the the UK? Shouldn’t both parties be advised not to communicate privately and insurance companies are the ones who does all the sorting?

Fairweather said she saw him at the junction. The Kia had the right of way with a speed limit of 60 mph, nevertheless Fairweather said that when the Land Rover started moving her friend started braking.

SUVs and trucks are more susceptible to roll over because they are top heavy. The vehicle being armored may add to the rollover susceptibility if the armor added to the top-heaviness of the vehicle.

 

[MARG]

Statement from @NorfolkPolice: We can confirm arrangements were made on Friday (18 January) to take a statement from the passenger [Emma Fairweather] involved in the collision. This will take place tomorrow (22 January)." #dukeofedinburgh

So @NorfolkPolice say they have been trying to reach Emma Fairweather, the passenger in the car, all weekend: “Further contact was attempted on a number of occasions over the weekend but unfortunately these were not successful.” #DukeofEdinburgh

Via Chris Ship Twitter

So the Duke has been declared the guilty party by many in the press without the police having even taken statements.

Yes, the pitchfork gang are out in great numbers. Not only is Prince Philip old but he, unlike his peers, should lose his licence immediately. Worse, we have people (anonymous of course) saying they are not surprised he had an accident because he is "notorious in Sandringham" etc. ad nauseum.

My only opinion of these cretins is that if you are too lazy to make a formal complaint to the police but have time to contact the media, you are a waste of space and you need to take ownership of your own road rage.

As to the whole "seatbelt issue", when Philip and Elizabeth learnt to drive, cars didn't have seatbelts and then the only time they were in a car in public they were in the back seat waving. They only drive on their estates and immediate environs. Her Majesty was seen driving without a seatbelt, was it that day or the day after? When you are in your ninties you make your own choices and, if I didn't think I know better, I'd say she was making a point and a damned good one at that.

 

[Pranter]

Yes well said Marg.

I bet many of us here remember cars without seatbelts and even cars with them rarely did people wear them ..there were no laws about it. I don't think we started wearing them until I was in my teens ... frankly that is one of those 'nanny laws' as far as I am concerned. Once you are an adult you should be able to decide if you wear a seatbelt or not...it's nothing to do with anyone else.


LaRae

 

[VictoriaB]

As to the whole "seatbelt issue", when Philip and Elizabeth learnt to drive, cars didn't have seatbelts and then the only time they were in a car in public they were in the back seat waving. They only drive on their estates and immediate environs. Her Majesty was seen driving without a seatbelt, was it that day or the day after? When you are in your ninties you make your own choices and, if I didn't think I know better, I'd say she was making a point and a damned good one at that.

There are photos going back years of the Queen driving while not wearing a seatbelt.

While there may not be many cars on the private roads on the estates, its not just cars that can cause accidents - road conditions and wild animals darting out in front of vehicles can also cause drivers to stop suddenly/skid/loose control of their cars.

Passengers in the back seats of cars are just as likely to be injured as those in the front seat (Diana and Dodi anyone) which is why rear seatbelts have been a feature for donkeys years now and why wearing them is mandatory in many countries.

Makes no difference if seatbelts weren't standard when the Queen & Duke learned to drive. Every other person in Britain had to get used to wearing them when they became mandatory.

If the Queen wasn't wearing a seat belt to make a point, I'm not sure what point she was trying to make.

Yes well said Marg.

I bet many of us here remember cars without seatbelts and even cars with them rarely did people wear them ..there were no laws about it. I don't think we started wearing them until I was in my teens ... frankly that is one of those 'nanny laws' as far as I am concerned. Once you are an adult you should be able to decide if you wear a seatbelt or not...it's nothing to do with anyone else.


LaRae

Except that the cost of treating people injured in accidents is borne (in the UK) by the state through the NHS. If seat belts reduce the risk of injury and the severity of injury and therefore the costs to the state of treating and caring for the injured and cause no or little inconvenience to the wearer then the state has an interest in enforcing their use.

 

[M. Payton]

Yes well said Marg.

I bet many of us here remember cars without seatbelts and even cars with them rarely did people wear them ..there were no laws about it. I don't think we started wearing them until I was in my teens ... frankly that is one of those 'nanny laws' as far as I am concerned. Once you are an adult you should be able to decide if you wear a seatbelt or not...it's nothing to do with anyone else.


LaRae

Really tell that to someone who was saved in an accident all because she was wearing a seat belt and the other car they weren't and they died......seat belts save lives even those that don't want to wear them. Being an adult I thinks means you do not just look out for yourself in driving a car but for the other drivers as well, it is called compassion the last time I checked.

Yes, the pitchfork gang are out in great numbers. Not only is Prince Philip old but he, unlike his peers, should lose his licence immediately. Worse, we have people (anonymous of course) saying they are not surprised he had an accident because he is "notorious in Sandringham" etc. ad nauseum.

My only opinion of these cretins is that if you are too lazy to make a formal complaint to the police but have time to contact the media, you are a waste of space and you need to take ownership of your own road rage.

As to the whole "seatbelt issue", when Philip and Elizabeth learnt to drive, cars didn't have seatbelts and then the only time they were in a car in public they were in the back seat waving. They only drive on their estates and immediate environs. Her Majesty was seen driving without a seatbelt, was it that day or the day after? When you are in your ninties you make your own choices and, if I didn't think I know better, I'd say she was making a point and a damned good one at that.

Yes I would say that HM as much as I like her is making a darn good point, she is showing her arrogance and stupidity in NOT wearing a seat belt, why I ask, would it wrinkle her clothes or crease the dress ....that would be a very poor excuse to not wear a seat belt....after all if an accident, that seat belt would or could save her life....think it is worth wearing a seat belt ..... And HM and Prince Philip are 2 people that above every one else should be wearing seat belts, why, they are the role models for the country in everything......HM should be promoting seat belts usage as we all remember what happened to Diana and even with PP retired there is no reason on this earth not to wear a seat belt.....heck those seat belts should be in school buses and regular buses if I had my way......lives are more important then someone's ego.

 

[ladongas]

Hear, hear!

 

[Countessmeout]

Yes well said Marg.

I bet many of us here remember cars without seatbelts and even cars with them rarely did people wear them ..there were no laws about it. I don't think we started wearing them until I was in my teens ... frankly that is one of those 'nanny laws' as far as I am concerned. Once you are an adult you should be able to decide if you wear a seatbelt or not...it's nothing to do with anyone else.


LaRae

Back when the queen was young, women drank when pregnant. Should they still be allowed? Yes many children were born to mothers who drank alcohol and were just fine. Does that mean saying drinking while pregnant is a nanny state?

Many of us rode bikes without helmets when we were kids. Most of us survived. Should kids not be required to wear helmets, because Most of them will not die from concussions?

That's the great thing about mankind, we have intelligence, and we learn. We learn how things work, and how to make them safer. We realize that you may drive every day of your life for 20 years and never get in an accident, but the one crash you get in, may be the one you fly through a windshield. You can control your own car, but you cant control everything else on the road. Just because people were ignorant of the dangers back in the day, and didn't see the need to wear seatbelts, doesn't make it intelligent now.

Its one thing when they are on their own estate. If they are on roads where there are no pedestrians, other cars and anything else. Still some risk, but they don't have to worry about anyone else but their own driving skill. A public road is another matter.

Royals are meant to be role models, it is part of their job. Not wearing seatbelts, and worse kids not having them on, is irresponsible at best.

 

[Elenath]

Back when the queen was young, women drank when pregnant. Should they still be allowed? Yes many children were born to mothers who drank alcohol and were just fine. Does that mean saying drinking while pregnant is a nanny state?

Many of us rode bikes without helmets when we were kids. Most of us survived. Should kids not be required to wear helmets, because Most of them will not die from concussions?

I'm sorry, but I don't really get your point. Where I live these things are still allowed. Are there places where children aren't allowed to ride without a helmet or where pregant women aren't allowed to drink? Especially the last one, are women supposed to have a pregnancy test before getting a drink? Drinking while pregnant might not always be a good idea, but it's still legal.

 

[Kataryn]

For SOME elderly? For most of them! I’ve had to do this twice.

My sister, 1500 miles away, called to tell me that our mother had randomly driven to a town she did not know about 200 miles away. The police called my sister and said they would keep her there until she could be picked up. Both my sister and her husband then left work and drove 4 hours there and 4 hours back to bring her and her car home.

My feisty mother refused to consider giving up driving (she was nearly 85, and had always been a safe driver). So I had to fly down there and enforce it. Not pleasant, but we couldn’t be sure she wouldn’t do the same thing again, and we couldn’t be sure that she wouldn’t forget other things while driving, like not pulling out in front of cars that had the right of way, or driving through red lights or stop signs.

We felt that we would be responsible if she caused harm to herself or others by continuing to drive. And how many times would she have to be retrieved from strange towns far away?

My 90-year-old FIL turned left out of traffic and was t-boned by an oncoming car he didn’t see coming. No injuries, the cops drove him home, he hung up his keys for good, drank a glass of brandy, and called us. He didn’t need to be told his driving days were over. And his genius brain continued til the end of his life, but his eyesight and reflexes did not.

The Duke’s family needs to take the lead on this before something else happens. He will not be inconvenienced, and he will appear more dignified if he retires from driving with grace.

And it is not as if he has to walk or take the bus in the future, even without a driving license...

 

[JessRulz]

... Are there places where children aren't allowed to ride without a helmet or where pregant women aren't allowed to drink? ...

Yes, Australia. It is mandatory for everyone - child or adult - to wear a helmet when riding a bike anywhere apart from your private property since 1990 (various years around the different states). There are a few exemptions for certain people and slightly different rules in different states (NT for instance only has helmets mandatory for children), but if the police stop you while riding a bike without a helmet, you can be fined.

https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/cyclist-safety/wearing-a-bicycle-helmet

And while drinking alcohol during pregnancy is not illegal, late last year Australia and New Zealand both agreed to a new law to make it compulsory for all alcohol producers to label their bottles with a warning about the dangers of drinking while pregnant. No date has been set for when they must comply by, but it should be by the end of this year.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-from-drinking-while-pregnant-will-save-lives