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  #221  
Old 01-20-2019, 10:35 AM
Pranter's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Just a second, Pranter.

It's the guilt question I am not pointing my finger at, and that I made clear in my previous post.
I am however pointing my finger at how this has been handled PR-wise. And that I still do.
I also question how wise it is to drive basically right after the accident. Even if it's "to get back in the saddle." Even if it is on private ground and even if it is legal to drive without a seat belt in private land.
The Duke is not a normal senior citizen and he will not be treated as such. The public verdict is much harder, because he is supposed to be a role model in everything he does. - It's no different for him than it would be for any other royal in that respect.

Okay, the finger business out of the way. I'm glad you recovered well from your accidents. However, I doubt you had a crash with one of the most well-known persons in your country and that you as a consequence of that would have the press knocking at your door within hours. - That I imagine, would have a tendency to disturb any rational reflections you have...
I will also quietly point out that most people are very rarely involved in unexpected accidents where they are injured more than a few times during their entire lives and as such most tend to be a less than rational for a period after.

As for my outrage... Well, let's turn things around a little.
I do not feel an urge to point my finger at the passenger, who is speaking to the press and explaining what, in her opinion, happened. There is no law preventing her from doing that, is there?
She is, in contrast to the Duke, unlikely to have a PR-staff or trained lawyers advising her IMO.

So suggesting (as has been done here and elsewhere )that she (and the driver) is out to get attention, to profit from "telling her story" or that she is angling for as large a compensation as possible is IMO too harsh!
At present at least.


I get all the optics and PR issues. You don't have to keep pointing them out to me. It's rarely wise to let the media set or direct the narrative.

What difference would it make who I had a crash with? A person is quite capable of ignoring the press and not speaking to them...she chose to let them in and speak to them. The is no logical reason to think she was not capable of making rational decisions the day after the accident.

She can speak to the press all she likes...but of course her motives will be questioned when she does so especially when she does so to tabloid media. They are known to pay for these things and it's not like she's been waiting for weeks to get a response to a demand from an injury claim. You watch she will lawyer up next. If she hasn't already.


LaRae
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  #222  
Old 01-20-2019, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
The whole thing seems to being handled badly and to have him being seen driving again and without a seatbelt has made things worse.

Y’all know Prince Philip was very close to killing himself or the other party in the next car, right? This is bad.
So? There is absolutely no evidence thus far that Philip’s age was the cause of this accident. Sun glare that could and would have affected anyone may have been the main factor with the speed limit being so high on the road the Kia was traveling being another factor- based on previous accidents there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
without a seatbelt on a public road ... best case people will book it off as senile stubborness.
worst case, something like this happens again.
i think public opinion will now turn against philip, if it hasnt already, as he is putting people deliberately in danger including himself by driving without seatbelt.
not sure joe average can do the same on a public road without being fined.
How is driving without a seatbelt (if he is indeed driving without even a lap belt) putting anyone other than himself in danger? It is not.
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  #223  
Old 01-20-2019, 10:56 AM
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I think the lady who has given interviews saying - "I was really excited at the idea the Queen my phone me"- shows that she perhaps isn't so bothered about the crash but hoped to become besties with HM because of it.
Anyone I know who has had a crash, including myself, couldn't probably tell you more than the name of the person they crashed into- you exchange details and let the insurance deal with it. That is what is happening hereI imagine, I think the Queen sending a message through a police liaison officer is more than most people would do.
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  #224  
Old 01-20-2019, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
I was describing the human reaction.

In the aftermath after an accident, you don't sit down and think rationally at what happened, how it happened and whose fault it was. Especially when you are on top of that being contacted by the media.
You don't sit thinking: Sure, I didn't get a call, because of the layers, silly me! And no get-better card either, and I'm just okay-dokey with that. No problem.

And that the Duke got an all clear from the police is pretty academic too.
So is the fact that he was driving on private property. - He was driving. Shortly after the accident. And without a seat belt. (A lap belt BTW is IMO pretty unlikely as they are next to worthless in preventing people from smashing their faces through a windscreen or against the steering wheel.)
Whether the car the Duke drove in afterwards is brand new or brought from Balmoral doesn't matter in that stage of mind. - It's still a "new" car.
Also, I doubt very much a new car was parked outside the home of the female driver a few hours later. Not considering the circumstances.
And that it wasn't her child, doesn't mean you are not scared for that child (or for that child losing its mother). Chances are the passenger was a friend or a co-worker and as such knew the child.

And again, AFAIK there has been no personal gesture from the BRF to the women involved in the accident.

It's all about emotions.

ADDED:

This is not about pointing my finger at anyone. That will have to wait for the police having finished their investigation.

It's about me objecting against attacking a woman who has just been involved in and injured in a car accident. And whose friend was also injured. That her friend's child was unhurt is great, but the child could very well have been injured. It's quite a shocker! For anyone.
So I think we should give the women the benefit of doubt before labeling them "compensation hunters" and worse...

That I personally feel that PR-wise the BRF could have handled this much better is another matter.
Totally agree with you Muhler on all points and for me, the Duke is a fool to be out driving again the next day or 2 days later *without a seat belt* and that makes him look arrogant and full of himself.

When it comes to royals involved in something like this, they are NOT above the law as so many seem to think. It is not about pointing fingers here, it is about the Duke's lack of respect for the other passengers and also his lack of respect for other drivers when he went out again driving with out a seat belt. He is NOT above the law regardless of titles or admirers. I have always like the Duke even when he opens his mouth, this brought him down to the level of zero for me with his attitude he is better then the next person. Respect is not a given in life, it has to be EARNED, he does not deserve any respect in this situation.

And in looking at the area and where he was driving Pranter, he was pulling on to public roads not private.
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  #225  
Old 01-20-2019, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M. Payton View Post
And in looking at the area and where he was driving Pranter, he was pulling on to public roads not private.
What day are you talking about? The accident or yesterday?


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  #226  
Old 01-20-2019, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I get all the optics and PR issues. You don't have to keep pointing them out to me. It's rarely wise to let the media set or direct the narrative.

What difference would it make who I had a crash with? A person is quite capable of ignoring the press and not speaking to them...she chose to let them in and speak to them. The is no logical reason to think she was not capable of making rational decisions the day after the accident.

She can speak to the press all she likes...but of course her motives will be questioned when she does so especially when she does so to tabloid media. They are known to pay for these things and it's not like she's been waiting for weeks to get a response to a demand from an injury claim. You watch she will lawyer up next. If she hasn't already.


LaRae
I agree with all this. This passenger seems to be basking in the attention being given her by the media. She is getting her 15 minutes of fame.
It would be a mistake for the BRF to react differently in this situation than any other family, especially because of media stories.
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  #227  
Old 01-20-2019, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
Can you see he was not wearing a lap belt?
I don't think a lap belt complies with the law for sitting in the driving seat. I'm sure all modern cars have to be fitted with the diagonal type.
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  #228  
Old 01-20-2019, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I get all the optics and PR issues. You don't have to keep pointing them out to me. It's rarely wise to let the media set or direct the narrative.

What difference would it make who I had a crash with? A person is quite capable of ignoring the press and not speaking to them...she chose to let them in and speak to them. The is no logical reason to think she was not capable of making rational decisions the day after the accident.

She can speak to the press all she likes...but of course her motives will be questioned when she does so especially when she does so to tabloid media. They are known to pay for these things and it's not like she's been waiting for weeks to get a response to a demand from an injury claim. You watch she will lawyer up next. If she hasn't already.


LaRae
Well, unless you have special informations, the official reports and the eye-witness reports the media write about, you are dependent of what is said in the press as well.
You cannot claim that I point the finger the finger one-sided at the Duke while you at the same time, based on your interpretation of what is said in the press, is stating that she "want's to layer up next."

Of course her motives can be questioned, but so far all she has done is to answer questions from the press and giving her version of the story.
Why shouldn't she?

And it was you, not me, who brought up the crashes you have been involved in, leading them to be discussed here.

Fair enough, let's agree on disagreeing.
I can't come up with more ways of saying that this could be handled better by the BRF, and especially the Duke.
And that we should perhaps allow the passenger the benefit of doubt before judging her.
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  #229  
Old 01-20-2019, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
My car shrieks like a banshee if the seat belt isn't fastened.
Is this not the case in the UK?
Yes it is but maybe he's deaf and doesn't hear it.
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  #230  
Old 01-20-2019, 11:26 AM
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A 97 year old, no matter how mentally astute he seems to be, should be driving, much less on a public road. This accident was the perfect time to say “No more driving”, not a time to give him a new car.
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  #231  
Old 01-20-2019, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain View Post
Yes it is but maybe he's deaf and doesn't hear it.
The dashboard flashes too so he'd know he had the warning. You can avoid the warnings by fastening the seat belt before getting in.
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  #232  
Old 01-20-2019, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
From what I have read yesterday... there is no law saying you have to wear a seatbelt when driving on private lands..which is where I am understanding Philip was driving yesterday without visible (lap belt would not be visible) seat belt.
LaRae
He was driving on a public road.
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  #233  
Old 01-20-2019, 11:36 AM
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According to the Mirror (I know!) the passenger, Emma Fairweather, is quoted for saying:
“I’m lucky to be alive and he hasn’t even said sorry.

“It has been such a traumatic and painful time and I would have expected more of the Royal Family.

“It could have been so much worse. Prince Philip apparently said to a witness that it was the sun that dazzled him but I can’t see how that could be true when it was overcast.”

“I love the royals but I’ve been ignored and rejected and I’m in a lot of pain.

“It would mean the world to me if Prince Philip said sorry but I have no idea if he’s sorry at all.

“What would it have taken for him and the Queen to send me a card and a bunch of flowers?”

Emma claims she received a phone call from police but had heard nothing from the royals or their household.

She says: “I was just advised not to speak to anyone and told to expect a call from the Palace yesterday.

“I know the Queen is a busy lady but I was really excited at the idea she might phone me.

“Instead, I got a call from a police family liaison officer.

“The message he passed on didn’t even make sense. He said, ‘The Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh would like to be remembered to you.’ That’s not an apology or even a well-wish.”

“I thought I’d at least have got a note and maybe some flowers but I’ve heard nothing.

“The police haven’t given me any emotional support either.”

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...veals-13882041
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  #234  
Old 01-20-2019, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Well, unless you have special informations, the official reports and the eye-witness reports the media write about, you are dependent of what is said in the press as well.
You cannot claim that I point the finger the finger one-sided at the Duke while you at the same time, based on your interpretation of what is said in the press, is stating that she "want's to layer up next."

Of course her motives can be questioned, but so far all she has done is to answer questions from the press and giving her version of the story.
Why shouldn't she?

And it was you, not me, who brought up the crashes you have been involved in, leading them to be discussed here.

Fair enough, let's agree on disagreeing.
I can't come up with more ways of saying that this could be handled better by the BRF, and especially the Duke.
And that we should perhaps allow the passenger the benefit of doubt before judging her.

I'm just talking about predictable behavior when a person is acting like this the day after an accident. Normal people (I don't care who the other driver is) don't go giving interviews to the media after. There's only one reason to do so. She's removing the benefit of the doubt option by what she's doing. Your list you just posted of her comments are not going in her favor either.

I brought up the crashes to demonstrate that just because you were in a crash doesn't mean you aren't capable of rational thought or action. Since you seemed to think she was so upset she might not be.

The DoE could be 100 percent guilty of the accident..none of us know yet. However there's been a lot of carrying on here about how he shouldn't be driving etc ...based on a wreck we don't have all the details of yet.

I'm merely pointing out other views that can be held.


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  #235  
Old 01-20-2019, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
The dashboard flashes too so he'd know he had the warning. You can avoid the warnings by fastening the seat belt before getting in.
True, but he probably just ignores the flashes. Both he and the Queen have driven without wearing seatbelts for years and only hours after the accident the Queen was seen doing so again. But the next day, presumably because of the all the bad press that generated, she was seen wearing one.
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  #236  
Old 01-20-2019, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
I think the lady who has given interviews saying - "I was really excited at the idea the Queen my phone me"- shows that she perhaps isn't so bothered about the crash but hoped to become besties with HM because of it.
Anyone I know who has had a crash, including myself, couldn't probably tell you more than the name of the person they crashed into- you exchange details and let the insurance deal with it. That is what is happening hereI imagine, I think the Queen sending a message through a police liaison officer is more than most people would do.
Witnesses on scene attested to the fact that Philip did go over to the other car and inquired after the people that were in it. That's all I needed to hear. The extra mile was sending a message via a police liaison. I wouldn't have expected any more.

With any accident that I've had or people close to me have had, contact after it was cleared away is not something that happened unless, for some reason, the incident ended up in court.

Its no big deal that Philip had another one of his cars driven down from Balmoral either. Its not unusual to have another vehicle on hand to use should something happen either. He already had the car available to him. It just was in a different place.

Again, it was an unfortunate accident and it will be investigated to the full extent of the law. I do agree that driving without a full seat belt is just plain stupid. Its putting oneself in the position to be harmed even more should there be a crash. For most of us its second nature to buckle up as soon as we get in a car but for older folks that went years without having them in cars, its like teaching an old dog new tricks.
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  #237  
Old 01-20-2019, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
“Instead, I got a call from a police family liaison officer.

“The message he passed on didn’t even make sense. He said, ‘The Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh would like to be remembered to you.’ That’s not an apology or even a well-wish.”

“I thought I’d at least have got a note and maybe some flowers but I’ve heard nothing.

“The police haven’t given me any emotional support either.”

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...veals-13882041
This is part of what I mean about being vulnerable. Her expectations of the Queen & DoE are daft but a police liaison officer could have visited her & explained how it's advisable for people in accidents not to contact each other & let the insurers sort it out. They also could have told her not to expect any contact from the DoE & strongly advised her not to speak to the media. It's a globally reported case involving the most famous family in the world so it's wrong to leave someone exposed like this, whether she's currently enjoying the limelight or not. The after-shock might cause her to make some poor decisions & she should be protected from that.
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  #238  
Old 01-20-2019, 12:01 PM
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Indeed Lilyflo. When I had my accident, the insurance company took care of it and I have not spoken to the other people involved ever since the day we got in the accident. We both got stuck in a crappy situation, but we don't owe eachother anything.
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  #239  
Old 01-20-2019, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
According to the Mirror (I know!) the passenger, Emma Fairweather, is quoted for saying:
“I’m lucky to be alive and he hasn’t even said sorry.

“It has been such a traumatic and painful time and I would have expected more of the Royal Family.

“It could have been so much worse. Prince Philip apparently said to a witness that it was the sun that dazzled him but I can’t see how that could be true when it was overcast.”

“I love the royals but I’ve been ignored and rejected and I’m in a lot of pain.

“It would mean the world to me if Prince Philip said sorry but I have no idea if he’s sorry at all.

“What would it have taken for him and the Queen to send me a card and a bunch of flowers?”

Emma claims she received a phone call from police but had heard nothing from the royals or their household.

She says: “I was just advised not to speak to anyone and told to expect a call from the Palace yesterday.

“I know the Queen is a busy lady but I was really excited at the idea she might phone me.


“Instead, I got a call from a police family liaison officer.

“The message he passed on didn’t even make sense. He said, ‘The Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh would like to be remembered to you.’ That’s not an apology or even a well-wish.”

“I thought I’d at least have got a note and maybe some flowers but I’ve heard nothing.

“The police haven’t given me any emotional support either.”

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...veals-13882041
All those quotes seem to indicate Ms. Fairweather is enjoying the attention the media is giving her and is disappointed the accident didn't lead to a personal relationship with the BRF.
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  #240  
Old 01-20-2019, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
This is part of what I mean about being vulnerable. Her expectations of the Queen & DoE are daft but a police liaison officer could have visited her & explained how it's advisable for people in accidents not to contact each other & let the insurers sort it out. They also could have told her not to expect any contact from the DoE & strongly advised her not to speak to the media. It's a globally reported case involving the most famous family in the world so it's wrong to leave someone exposed like this, whether she's currently enjoying the limelight or not. The after-shock might cause her to make some poor decisions & she should be protected from that.
Totally agree.
Venturing out into the realm of pure speculation I would be tempted to think these quotes are from a woman who is not quite herself yet and who is perhaps a little naive.
All she seems to be crying out for is a little pad on the shoulder.

A session with a crisis-psychologist might be advisable. Is that standard with the NHS?
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