Queen Elizabeth as Monarch, Mother and Grandmother

[Duchess of Durham]

Wasn't there something once said that Charles and/or Anne claimed they did not have a good childhood or that their parents were cold?

I'm not trying to stir the pot, just hoping to clear up my own memory.

 

[Osipi]

Wasn't there something once said that Charles and/or Anne claimed they did not have a good childhood or that their parents were cold?

I'm not trying to stir the pot, just hoping to clear up my own memory.

I believe Charles did mention something of the sort in the Dimbleby book. There was a lot about Charles' early years he was unhappy with besides his parents.

Home life really had to be a horse of a different color when Charles and Anne were both small. Its a monumental change to go from being Princess Elizabeth, Duchess of Edinburgh to HM, The Queen and, as I've been reading, there were certain quarters that thought perhaps she wasn't ready or fit to be Queen. All of a sudden too, another woman went instantly from HM, The Queen to Queen Elizabeth, Queen Mother and that in and of itself had to be a tremendous change. A family that sticks together can overcome these obstacles and I think the Windsor family did just that. Like any family, there are things that the kids didn't like or occasions where it was impossible to all be together and in the long run, the House of Windsor has not only survived but will survive for generations to come.

The contrast between Charles and Anne growing up and Andrew and Edward's childhood, I think, happens in a lot of families. With the first kid, you're playing with a blank rule book and with #2 coming relatively soon, its all trial and error and with the top job the parents had, a lot of criticism. When #3 and #4 came along it was more the case of "been there... done that" and was far more relaxed.

 

[Duchess of Durham]

Thank you, Osipi. As always, you know the answers.

 

[Osipi]

Ah my dear grasshopper, its not knowing all the answers but being in the right place to learn some.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

The Jonathan Dimbleby biography about Charles claimed he felt pressured by Philip to marry Diana and that he was never in love with her, and that the Queen was a distant mother.

The book also claimed that he was bullied by Phillip, something I can believe.

I am no fan of Prince Philip, because he is not the kind of person that I usually like. I see him as a pretty cold person, and I don't think he was a good father. But he has been a great support too the Queen, and he he was a great support to William og Harry when their mother died.

And let's oss be clear, the Queen was not a 'hands on' mother, but as Anne said, she was not a bad / cold mother.

 

[melina premiere]

I found this video, about the christening of Zara Philps, the queen has Zara in her arms, lovely grandma


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_Tg3MjF4s

 

[BritishRoyalist]

The Jonathan Dimbleby biography about Charles claimed he felt pressured by Philip to marry Diana and that he was never in love with her, and that the Queen was a distant mother.

The book also claimed that he was bullied by Phillip, something I can believe.

I am no fan of Prince Philip, because he is not the kind of person that I usually like. I see him as a pretty cold person, and I don't think he was a good father. But he has been a great support too the Queen, and he he was a great support to William og Harry when their mother died.

And let's oss be clear, the Queen was not a 'hands on' mother, but as Anne said, she was not a bad / cold mother.

Very true. They may not have been a hands on mother but they were not cold and distance. And by the time they had their last two kids HM had been Queen for 8 years and Anne was by then 10. So some time had passed but she became queen when Charles and Anne were very young

I read somewhere King George V and Queen Mary were pretty cold and distance. That was quit different from George Parents as Albert Edward and Alexandra were the opposite of that. From what I have read Edward and Alexandra were loving and caring parents and pretty hands on but not as much as Charles and Diana were or even William and Catherine are now.

And of course we know what kind of Parents Victoria and Albert were. Queen Victoria was a adoring Grandmother but not with her own children.

 

[Curryong]

I think the late 1940's, 1950's when Charles and Anne were children was a very different era to the 1960/70's and the childhoods of Andrew and Edward. When Charles was a small child the court was a very formal one run by the grey men who had been there since before the war. The new Queen was very influenced by their advice on how to run things.

Nannies ruled the nursery. Mabel Anderson, Charles's first nanny was a very firm minded and rule driven person, it was said. She was devoted to her charges, Charles and Anne , but Princess Elizabeth/the Queen was cowed by her, apparently. She only screwed up the courage to challenge her when Nanny Anderson decreed that some food ordered for Charles by his mother was unsuitable. It resulted in Miss Anderson's dismissal.

I do think that, like Anne, the Queen isn't really a touchy-feely person, who hugs a lot. The Queen Mother probably was. I think Charles as a child probably needed a lot of hugs and demonstrations of love from his parents and didn't get it.

Nevertheless, the Queen was certainly relaxed enough to allow young Edward to play with his toys in a corner of her study while she was working, so it's very clear that things did change for the better over the years.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

As my grandfather says "Anne is like her father. The Queen isn't like that at all. The Queen is shy and reserved, but she is very kind, warm, caring, forgiving, non-judgmental, calm and wise."

And according to the Robert Hardman book Our Queen, Phillip once said something like "The problem is that they (the children) are like me and not the Queen."

I agree with this, and as my grandfather says "they have all four inherited their father's stubbornness, temper, the feeling that they have to intervene in matters that don't benefit the monarchy, and the ability to be rude towards their staff.

And to those who say that the Queen is not emotional, they're wrong. She is raised to not show emotion in public, but she does in private. And we've seen her show emotion in public a few times. She wept When Britannia was taken away from her, she was close to tears, when she stood on the balcony for her Golden Jubilee in 2002 and she was in tears during the British Legion Remembrance Service at Westminster Abbey in 2002.

As Kent Gavin said "You don’t see the Queen crying very often. This was the first Remembrance Day service after her mother died – the Queen mother used to lay the wreath every year.

The Queen stood in for her and was visibly upset. I felt quite emotional as I saw the tears roll down her face.

Prince Philip has laid the wreath ever since."

http://41.media.tumblr.com/e5b4d598c2c909afa8a7f6eeee1f0ed8/tumblr_n03tybRbs41ry57s1o2_500.jpg

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/10/285x214/247132_1.jpg

http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/art...ctured at British Legion Rememberance Service

http://i3.irishmirror.ie/incoming/article3452132.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Queen-Elizabeth.jpg

From 3:40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF_2sNjgNKQ&list=PLy2kHuiZVemplDrjF5Jr6lX82p9bULe-L&index=45

 

[royal rob]

While this is very nice how do we know what she's like in private ? The fact that private means without us or cameras etc we haven't got any idea. She might a lovely person or she might not. We will never really know


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[Honeybees]

If my recollection serves me correctly, Princess Anne also made a comment that growing up it was clear one was.not the first priority and H.M has spoken about how one cannot divide the job from ones life and occasionally resenting how much time the boxes take up.

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

I wrote a bit more in my previous post.

While this is very nice how do we know what she's like in private ? The fact that private means without us or cameras etc we haven't got any idea. She might a lovely person or she might not. We will never really know


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

Look at what the children and grandchildren says, look at what William wrote about her last week.
Queen Elizabeth II Becomes Longest Reigning British Monarch: September 9, 2015 - Page 6 - The Royal Forums

And look at this post.
General News & Information for Queen Elizabeth and Duke of Edinburgh - Page 15 - The Royal Forums

I could have given you many more examples, but I will not discuss more about this.

If my recollection serves me correctly, Princess Anne also made a comment that growing up it was clear one was.not the first priority and H.M has spoken about how one cannot divide the job from ones life and occasionally resenting how much time the boxes take up.

And as I wrote in an previous post, the Queen was not a 'hands on' mother, but as Anne said, she was not a bad / cold mother.

This article is from 2002
My loving mother, by Princess Anne | Daily Mail Online

 

[Daria_S]

As my grandfather says "Anne is like her father. The Queen isn't like that at all. The Queen is shy and reserved, but she is very kind, warm, caring, forgiving, non-judgmental, calm and wise."

And according to the Robert Hardman book Our Queen, Phillip once said something like "The problem is that they (the children) are like me and not the Queen."

I agree with this, and as my grandfather says "they have all four inherited their father's stubbornness, temper, the feeling that they have to intervene in matters that don't benefit the monarchy, and the ability to be rude towards their staff.

And to those who say that the Queen is not emotional, they're wrong. She is raised to not show emotion in public, but she does in private. And we've seen her show emotion in public a few times. She wept When Britannia was taken away from her, she was close to tears, when she stood on the balcony for her Golden Jubilee in 2002 and she was in tears during the British Legion Remembrance Service at Westminster Abbey in 2002.

As Kent Gavin said "You don’t see the Queen crying very often. This was the first Remembrance Day service after her mother died – the Queen mother used to lay the wreath every year.

The Queen stood in for her and was visibly upset. I felt quite emotional as I saw the tears roll down her face.

Prince Philip has laid the wreath ever since."

http://41.media.tumblr.com/e5b4d598c2c909afa8a7f6eeee1f0ed8/tumblr_n03tybRbs41ry57s1o2_500.jpg

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/10/285x214/247132_1.jpg

http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/art...ctured at British Legion Rememberance Service

http://i3.irishmirror.ie/incoming/article3452132.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Queen-Elizabeth.jpg

From 3:40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF_2sNjgNKQ&list=PLy2kHuiZVemplDrjF5Jr6lX82p9bULe-L&index=45

You truly are a gem! Thank you for sharing the videos, and pictures. Her Majesty also showed emotion when in Westminster Abbey for her Diamond Jubilee. You could see how effected she was by Philip's absence. She shows emotion, but not in a dramatic, theatrical manner. It's dignified, yet very obvious that she's moved.



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[eya]

Why the Queen always forgives Prince Andrew's blunders | Daily Mail Online

And then there were four! How the Queen put motherhood first when Andrew and Edward arrived a decade after Charles and Anne* | Daily Mail Online

 

[Biri]

In the title of the thread should be "and great-Grandmother"

 

[Curryong]

I don't know whether this has ever been posted before. Apologies if it has but I thought it was quite an interesting discussion on the Queen as mother (and Philip as a father), if a bit long. (I found the comment by the Dean of Windsor regarding Anne's engagement as quite revealing, actually.)

The real Elizabeth II - Telegraph

 

[royal rob]

What a great read thanks so much for posting. There is so much in there I agree about.


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[Dman]

I don't know whether this has ever been posted before. Apologies if it has but I thought it was quite an interesting discussion on the Queen as mother (and Philip as a father), if a bit long. (I found the comment by the Dean of Windsor regarding Anne's engagement as quite revealing, actually.)

The real Elizabeth II - Telegraph

I hadn't read that article in a while. The chaos of those days would make one's head spin. I bet they're happy those days are long behind them and things are in a more calm and stable state now.

 

[Roslyn]

Thanks for posting that link, Curryong. I hadn't read the article before. I found it very interesting and consistent with the views I've formed about HM over the years.

 

[Dman]

No matter if you're running a business or even a family, it needs an authoritative figure at it's helm to keeps everything and everyone in line and in check. Ignore problems, everything falls apart at some point.

The Windsors have been through some stuff indeed. I think The Queen learn some hard lessons since those days.

 

[Queen Camilla]

The article was publish in January 2002.

It is full of inaccuracies, misleading comments, half truths, gossips and lies.

To Fellowes, who regarded himself as a friend of Camilla

Really but no mention that he is Diana's brother-in-law.
Wonder why the omission?

Mrs Parker Bowles, who had not been considered for any guest list for more than 20 years after[/QUOTE]

So according to the article the Queen never meet Camilla from 1973 until 'more than 20 years' later.

Camilla was invited by the Queen to Windsor on at least 2 occasions in 1992.

This article was written in 2002, there is not even a ten year span between June of 1992 and January of 2002 and definitely not more than 20 years.

The article states the the Queen met Camilla in 2000. Making it less than 8 years rather than more than 20 years.

According to the article written in January 2002, in reference to the Queen's relationship with Camilla.

merely a cracking of the ice rather than a breaking of it". The ice, it seems, was still not for melting.

Yet the photographs show:

April 9, 2002 Camilla and her sister Annabel were invited to the funeral of The Queen Mother.
April 19, 2002 Camilla were invited to Princess Margaret's memorial service
June 1, 2002 Camilla was invited to Buckingham Palace for the Prom at the Palace classical concert to celebrate the Queen's Jubilee
June 3, 2002 Camilla and her daughter was invited to Buckingham Palace for the Golden Jubilee Pop concert.
July 2, 2002 Camilla invited to a private dinner at the Ritz with the Queen.
August 1, 2002 Camilla invited to Norfolk for The Queen Mother's memorial service at St. Andrew's church

Wonder what caused the Queen to 'suddenly' change her mind?

Or maybe it is a case of someone writing to sell a story rather than reporting the facts.

JMO, but when photographs can flush out the facts, it shows these type of stories to be exactly what they are stories.

 

[Roslyn]

I took the 20 years to date from 1973. 1992 is nearly 20 years. Why more invitations in 2002? Mainly, I suspect, because the Queen Mother was dead. By then Diana was already long dead. When did Charles make his "non negotiable" comment? I can't remember. Must check. ETA I can't find a specific reference but Camilla met William in 1998 so I'm guessing it was before that. So I think after the Queen Mother was gone, the thaw was inevitable.

 

[Queen Camilla]

I took the 20 years to date from 1973. 1992 is nearly 20 years. Why more invitations in 2002? Mainly, I suspect, because the Queen Mother was dead. By then Diana was already dead. When did Charles make his "not negotiable" comment? I can't remember. Must check.

There are photos of Camilla and Andrew at the Bramaer Games in 1978.

Maybe they were invited by QEQM.

 

[Roslyn]

Do you need a special invitation from a member of the RF to go to the Braemar Gathering? I don't know. Maybe you do, but I didn't think so. I think that an invitation would have been extended as Major PB's wife, not in her own right. If you do, I agree it was probably the Queen Mother who invited them.

Andrew's career star was still in the ascendancy in those days. His parents were close friends of the Queen Mother, he was a page at the Coronation. Laura was born in January 1978, Andrew was soon to be appointed Governor-General of Rhodesia and he was yet to be appointed Silver Stick. He had a fairly important position in general firmament. I doubt the fact that his wife was known to have been on with Charles some years earlier does not seem to have had any impact on his career and it would not have stopped them from both going to the Braemar gathering. I doubt any lingering dislike of her would have affected her when accompanied by her husband anyway.

Though I must say I am rather curious to know in what part of 1973 she was supposed to have been sleeping with Charles. She was married in July that year. I thought she was supposed to have been besotted with Andrew, who was quite a ladies' man and considered a catch. I'm surprised she would have been having liaisons with Charles at that time. This Lord Charteris sounds like a bit of a gossip and scandal-monger to me.

 

[Queen Camilla]

Do you need a special invitation from a member of the RF to go to the Braemar Gathering? I don't know. Maybe you do, but I didn't think so. I think that an invitation would have been extended as Major PB's wife, not in her own right. If you do, I agree it was probably the Queen Mother who invited them.

Andrew's career star was still in the ascendancy in those days. His parents were close friends of the Queen Mother, he was a page at the Coronation. Laura was born in January 1978, Andrew was soon to be appointed Governor-General of Rhodesia and he was yet to be appointed Silver Stick. He had a fairly important position in general firmament. I doubt the fact that his wife was known to have been on with Charles some years earlier does not seem to have had any impact on his career and it would not have stopped them from both going to the Braemar gathering. I doubt any lingering dislike of her would have affected her when accompanied by her husband anyway.

Though I must say I am rather curious to know in what part of 1973 she was supposed to have been sleeping with Charles. She was married in July that year.

Wasn't Charles away most of 1973...

These stories always seem to fall apart when one looks closely at the timeline.

I believe Laura's birthday is April 20th.

 

[Dman]

I think the relationships The Queen have with her children have matured over the years. I think they've come to some understandings, but probably just accept the way things are. The new generation of royals parent totally different than it was done in her salad days.

 

[Roslyn]

Wasn't Charles away most of 1973...

These stories always seem to fall apart when one looks closely at the timeline.

I believe Laura's birthday is April 20th.

All the info I've found puts Laura as born on 1 January.

Charles last saw Camilla before her wedding in mid December 1972, at Broadlands. He left on HMS Minerva in February 1973 and sailed off to the West Indies and didn't return till 31 August. While he was away, Camilla got engaged and married. On his return, he went straight to Balmoral. From 2 September to 14 December 1973 he was on a course at Portsmouth.

To be fair, the article does say "around" 1973. Perhaps it was 1974. But in 1974, Charles was off on HMS Jupiter in the Far East from January to August.

Tom was born in December 1974 though, and is clearly Andrew's child (though Charles' godson).

So there's only a small window of opportunity. Did Camilla nip up to Balmoral on 1st September 1973? Or perhaps they got away to Broadlands for a day or two in December. And how did blabbermouth Charteris find out anyway, and when did he dob them in to HM? Inquiring minds want to know these things.

 

[duchessrachel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaCJ4xTfpx0 this might be slightly off topic but i love this video showing the Queen Mother returning from a 5 week tour of America and Canada. It shows the warmth between her and the Queen and the affection Anne and Charles have for her and she for them. I guess as the Queen had her new role to get o grips with it was inevitable the children would have to be, in part, looked after by others and so, if thats the case, who better than their grandmother. Part of me wishes they still did formal welcome homes like this now.

I wish things were as formal as they used to be too. I mourn the fact that there does not seem to be as many tiara appearances as there used to be. Queen Elizabeth II used to wear them to the theater events, but does not anymore. Does anyone know why?

 

[duchessrachel]

Ah my dear grasshopper, its not knowing all the answers but being in the right place to learn some.

You are very knowledgeable. I would love to be more knowledgeable on the British royal family. Do you have any suggestions on how I could approach this? Books, websites? Thanks.

 

[Osipi]

You are very knowledgeable. I would love to be more knowledgeable on the British royal family. Do you have any suggestions on how I could approach this? Books, websites? Thanks.

I think the best advice I could offer is what you're already doing. Hanging out here, reading and asking questions. Its how I learned things. Originally came here for Ascot hats, knew next to nothing about the BRF and/or how things work and the folks here were patient with me and explained things and its how I learned and am still learning and on top of that, its usually a whole lot of fun spending time with folks with the same interests that I have.

Check out the library section here and I'm sure you'll find a great number of interesting books to read. Royal Library - The Royal Forums