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  #341  
Old 04-12-2021, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
None of King George I of Greece’s children were given more than one name I believe from all I’ve read, nor did any of Prince Philip’s sisters. Perhaps it was a tradition within the Orthodox Church in those days.
It's still a tradition in most Orthodox Churches, I believe. I've never heard of an Orthodox European (never met any other Orthodox) with more than one first name. Even hyphenated names are rare. When I named my favourite teddy bear with a hyphenated name (I just liked both names and my mother told me I could use them), everyone decided that it must be an English thing that she taught me from those thick English books she read, that's how unusual it was.


I've heard that Jesus called people by ONE name, so there was no need for anyone to have two firsts. But I don't know if this theory holds outside of the Bulgarian Orthodox Church and even if it's the official dogma here.


ETA: Heather, your question made me remember a peculiar detail of our own history. When Ferdinand I, then Prince of Bulgaria, married Princess Marie Louise of Bourbon-Parma, the Pope allowed the marriage under the condition that all children born to the couple would be Catholic. Thus, the future Tsar Boris III received an impressive number of middle names. Then, when Ferdinand patched the relationship with Russia and already knew that it would be easier for everyone if Boris was an Orthodox, he invited the Russian Emperor to be his son's godfather upon Boris' conversion to Eastern Orthodoxy. That was the last time I ever saw Boris' full array of middle names used. After the conversion, they seem to have disappeared. Ferdinand's younger, Catholic children had a number of middle names and I can't say if they ever used them but Boris, now Orthodox, certainly did not in any document I can think of.


Come to think of it, I can't remember any Byzantine Emperor ever using a middle name, although it's possible that I just misremember. But Philip's lack of middle name seems more and more region-related to me.
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  #342  
Old 04-12-2021, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
I have the book: "Freddy is expecting in June [of 1940], & we are hoping for an heir."

Were you looking for something in particular?
Just the date for context. Paul was married in 1938, and Philip would have been attending the Royal Naval College in 1939. I think Alice had expected Philip to return to Greece and completely missed that he chose to serve Britain instead. But yeah, I guessed that the letter was from 1938 and it must have been 1940.
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  #343  
Old 04-12-2021, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Thena View Post
Just the date for context. Paul was married in 1938, and Philip would have been attending the Royal Naval College in 1939. I think Alice had expected Philip to return to Greece and completely missed that he chose to serve Britain instead. But yeah, I guessed that the letter was from 1938 and it must have been 1940.
December 1939. I think both Alice and Philip were hoping he would not have to be King of the Hellenes.
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  #344  
Old 04-13-2021, 01:38 AM
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While talking about the possible line of succession, we seem to forget Prince Christophoros, the last born of the children of King George I and Queen Olga. He had a first non dynastic marriage with a rich American lady, (then Princess Anastasia), without kids and then he married an Orleans princess and had Michael the known writer in january 1939.
I found that for his first marriage he was not obliged to give up to his succession rights and his wife was titled Princess of Greece and Denmark
In the years around 1938 Prince Christophoros was married with Princess d'Orleans, highly dynastic marriage, they could reign.

On the 60s his son Michael gave up his rights to wed Marina Carella, so it means he had full rights.
I'm not a specialist in succession laws, but it is true that at this moment, the young Philip was the only young blood, all the others even if before him in line, were elderly, and Prince Michael was born in 1939. Up to January 1939 only Philip was, so it is important the date of this letter.

Furthermore I don't see Princess Alice, considering her previous profile, to expect her son to be the King of Greece. But of course we can't be in people's mind.

Now for the names. It seems that in GRF they never gave middle names with exception made for CP Pavlos names who bear an unusual and unpronounceable number of names, except Maria-Olympia, the boy's names are non practical.
For the previous generations of commun Greek people, the only reason to give more than one name was to honor one of the grandparents, but it is made in a special way. The name is pronounced in the church to make the grandpa happy, but never used after.
For the GRF, King George I kids received of course Greek names, and it was impossible to honor the danish grandparents, as names were very different.
For Queen Olga she honored her father with an historical name for Greeks also.
To cut the story short, now it became a trend to have many names, but then no.
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  #345  
Old 04-13-2021, 04:14 AM
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Speaking of Prince Michel; he is the only paternal cousin that the late duke of Edinburgh still had. Like the duke's childhood, the one of Prince Michel was also rather unstable. And like with the duke of Edinburgh it was the maternal family who stepped in.

I am not sure however if the two met privately. Prince Michel does not mention the duke often though he does not mind talking about other relatives at all. It is hard/impossible to find a photo of the two together. Though they must have attended some Greek royal weddings or funerals at the same time.
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  #346  
Old 04-13-2021, 04:34 AM
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It doesn't seem to be tradition within the Greek royal family to have middle names. It seems an exception that Pavlos' children have hyphenated first names (but formally no middle names either).
Possibly an Orthodox tradtion.. that only one name is given....
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  #347  
Old 04-13-2021, 04:41 AM
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Correct, furthermore Prince Michael both father and mother died and he found refuge firstly near the Count of Paris, maternal uncle and then to the paternal side, as he moved to Greece, served to the army and stayed there till 1972.
I believe also he was 3rd in line after CP Irini, before King Konstantine had kids.
In the opposite DOE was left unattended while both his parents were alive, this is a major difference.
Talking about Prince Michael and DOE, they both attended King Konstantine marriage, and Prince Michael is often attending royal events, of course we cannot know if they have personal relations, chemistry between people is a mystery.
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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
Speaking of Prince Michel; he is the only paternal cousin that the late duke of Edinburgh still had. Like the duke's childhood, the one of Prince Michel was also rather unstable. And like with the duke of Edinburgh it was the maternal family who stepped in.

I am not sure however if the two met privately. Prince Michel does not mention the duke often though he does not mind talking about other relatives at all. It is hard/impossible to find a photo of the two together. Though they must have attended some Greek royal weddings or funerals at the same time.
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  #348  
Old 04-13-2021, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
Speaking of Prince Michel; he is the only paternal cousin that the late duke of Edinburgh still had. Like the duke's childhood, the one of Prince Michel was also rather unstable. And like with the duke of Edinburgh it was the maternal family who stepped in.

I am not sure however if the two met privately. Prince Michel does not mention the duke often though he does not mind talking about other relatives at all. It is hard/impossible to find a photo of the two together. Though they must have attended some Greek royal weddings or funerals at the same time.

Don't know if Prince Michael attended the Wedding of CP Pavlos and Princess Alexia but my guess is yes so that would have been occasions where both op them where present.
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  #349  
Old 04-13-2021, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moran View Post
In Orthodox Christianity, we don't have middle names. I can't speak of Greece in particular but in most Orthodox countries I can think of we have a first name (it might be hyphenated as well), a second name derived from the father and a family name. I won't be surprised it it holds true for Greek names as well and Prince Philip was named under this tradition. He was born Orthodox, after all. But I'll be interested if someone from Greece can explain the lack of second name. Perhaps it's a Greek thing or simply a Greek royal thing? That's if I'm right about the second name derived from the father being valid there as well.
Thank you for the explanation. I wasn’t aware of that but that’s very interesting. So, if I’m understanding correctly, he would have had his first name, a second name, and then a family name or, in the case of royalty, a territory such as “of Greece and Denmark.” So, in this case, Prince Philip ??? of Greece and Denmark. But I’ve never been able to find a second name for him. Has anyone else?
As far as I have read, only the territorial designation "of Greece" was used in Greece, while the "of Denmark" was only included abroad. See Philip's birth certificate, where only "of Greece" was used for members of his family.

https://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...ml#post2389005

In English, the second name derived from the father's personal name is technically termed a patronymic. As Moran explained, patronymics are part of the naming traditions of many Orthodox countries. By Greek naming convention, the son of a man called Andreas would be named Philippos Andreou Glücksburg, though I believe would be referred to in daily life as simply Philippos Glücksburg.
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  #350  
Old 04-13-2021, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
As far as I have read, only the territorial designation "of Greece" was used in Greece, while the "of Denmark" was only included abroad. See Philip's birth certificate, where only "of Greece" was used for members of his family.

https://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...ml#post2389005

In English, the second name derived from the father's personal name is technically termed a patronymic. As Moran explained, patronymics are part of the naming traditions of many Orthodox countries. By Greek naming convention, the son of a man called Andreas would be named Philippos Andreou Glücksburg, though I believe would be referred to in daily life as simply Philippos Glücksburg.
I see. Thank you for the explanation! I find names and naming conventions somewhat fascinating and Philip’s is no exception.
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