Prince Philip's Former Greek Citizenship and Greek and Danish Titles


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
But he didn’t live permanently with the Mountbattens when in England. He was very fond of his Uncle George Milford Haven but after his death from cancer he often stayed with family friends and sometimes extended family in the school holidays as well as at the Mountbatten home with his cousins. Dickie Mountbatten and his wife Edwina were often away on separate trips anyway.


Regardless of whom he lived with, he lived permanently in the UK despite not being a British subject, which was the point I was trying to make.
 
I have no idea about British immigration law in the 1930s, but, assuming Philip was not a British citizen (i.e. disregarding the Sophia Act), how did he live permanently with the Mountbattens in England ? I guess what I am asking is what his immigration status was at the time.

His mother was born in Britain and if such things mattered then I am.suee he had it through her.

He was a student and then joined the navy. Hardly important really.wven today people wouldn't question it.
 
I'm sure I read somewhere recently that Philip was 5th in line for the Greek throne when he was born ... but that doesn't sound right, because Constantine I had two living sons, then there were two other brothers ahead of Andrew. Having said which, I'm not 100% sure who was and wasn't excluded when because of all the abdications and reinstations! But Philip was certainly in line, and fairly close.

Princess Alice seemed to think that Philip had a shot at inheriting the Greek throne in the late 1930s. The Hugo Vickers biography of Princess Alice includes a letter she wrote to her son after she moved back to Athens. Alice noted that King George II had no children, Crown Prince Paul did not yet have children, Prince George was elderly, and his son Prince Peter had been disowned for a morgantic marriage. Prince Nicholas had already passed and he only had daughters. Next in line was Prince Andrew, and then Philip. Alice felt that it was important for Philip to return to Greece to be prepared in case he became the heir, so she took a two-bedroom apartment in Athens and invited him to live with her. But her brother had already persuaded Philip to enroll in the Royal Naval College. Once Paul got married in 1938 and had children, Philip was off the hook.

I need to dig that book out of the moving boxes and double-check the date, but I just moved and I'm not sure which box it could be in!
 
This is such a dumb question and I apologize if it’s in the wrong place. But, I can’t seem to locate any middle names at all for Prince Philip. I know I’m used to all of the European royal families, including the BRF, having at least two middle names and sometimes many more but maybe that wasn’t how things were done in Greece?
 
This is such a dumb question and I apologize if it’s in the wrong place. But, I can’t seem to locate any middle names at all for Prince Philip. I know I’m used to all of the European royal families, including the BRF, having at least two middle names and sometimes many more but maybe that wasn’t how things were done in Greece?

It doesn't seem to be tradition within the Greek royal family to have middle names. It seems an exception that Pavlos' children have hyphenated first names (but formally no middle names either).
 
Princess Alice seemed to think that Philip had a shot at inheriting the Greek throne in the late 1930s. The Hugo Vickers biography of Princess Alice includes a letter she wrote to her son after she moved back to Athens. Alice noted that King George II had no children, Crown Prince Paul did not yet have children, Prince George was elderly, and his son Prince Peter had been disowned for a morgantic marriage. Prince Nicholas had already passed and he only had daughters. Next in line was Prince Andrew, and then Philip. Alice felt that it was important for Philip to return to Greece to be prepared in case he became the heir, so she took a two-bedroom apartment in Athens and invited him to live with her. But her brother had already persuaded Philip to enroll in the Royal Naval College. Once Paul got married in 1938 and had children, Philip was off the hook.

I need to dig that book out of the moving boxes and double-check the date, but I just moved and I'm not sure which box it could be in!

I have the book: "Freddy is expecting in June [of 1940], & we are hoping for an heir."

Were you looking for something in particular?
 
This is such a dumb question and I apologize if it’s in the wrong place. But, I can’t seem to locate any middle names at all for Prince Philip. I know I’m used to all of the European royal families, including the BRF, having at least two middle names and sometimes many more but maybe that wasn’t how things were done in Greece?
In Orthodox Christianity, we don't have middle names. I can't speak of Greece in particular but in most Orthodox countries I can think of we have a first name (it might be hyphenated as well), a second name derived from the father and a family name. I won't be surprised it it holds true for Greek names as well and Prince Philip was named under this tradition. He was born Orthodox, after all. But I'll be interested if someone from Greece can explain the lack of second name. Perhaps it's a Greek thing or simply a Greek royal thing? That's if I'm right about the second name derived from the father being valid there as well.
 
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In Orthodox Christianity, we don't have middle names. I can't speak of Greece in particular but in most Orthodox countries I can think of we have a first name (it might be hyphenated as well), a second name derived from the father and a family name. I won't be surprised it it holds true for Greek names as well and Prince Philip was named under this tradition. He was born Orthodox, after all.

Thank you for the explanation. I wasn’t aware of that but that’s very interesting. So, if I’m understanding correctly, he would have had his first name, a second name, and then a family name or, in the case of royalty, a territory such as “of Greece and Denmark.” So, in this case, Prince Philip ??? of Greece and Denmark. But I’ve never been able to find a second name for him. Has anyone else?
 
Thank you for the explanation. I wasn’t aware of that but that’s very interesting. So, if I’m understanding correctly, he would have had his first name, a second name, and then a family name or, in the case of royalty, a territory such as “of Greece and Denmark.” So, in this case, Prince Philip ??? of Greece and Denmark. But I’ve never been able to find a second name for him. Has anyone else?
It's either a Greek tradition or a Greek royal tradition. Right now, I was trying to find a second name for his father as well and failed. But if I'm right and there should be a second name, it would be Prince Philip Second Name of Greece and Denmark. Or simply Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark. I think only the Russian tradition and perhaps the tradition of some of the members of the former USSR actively use the second name. (BTW, I strongly dislike the naming system in my country because it was cruel to the children born to unmarried mothers by fathers who hadn't legally recognized them. Because the second name is obligatory, in these cases it's derived from the mother's, making it immediately clear to everyone that this child has no father. It's different now but when I was a child, it was a great stigma and such children were relentlessly teased.)

We'll have to wait for some Greek posters to explain, I think.
 
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None of King George I of Greece’s children were given more than one name I believe from all I’ve read, nor were any of Prince Philip’s sisters. Perhaps it was a tradition within the Orthodox Church in those days.
 
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None of King George I of Greece’s children were given more than one name I believe from all I’ve read, nor did any of Prince Philip’s sisters. Perhaps it was a tradition within the Orthodox Church in those days.
It's still a tradition in most Orthodox Churches, I believe. I've never heard of an Orthodox European (never met any other Orthodox) with more than one first name. Even hyphenated names are rare. When I named my favourite teddy bear with a hyphenated name (I just liked both names and my mother told me I could use them), everyone decided that it must be an English thing that she taught me from those thick English books she read, that's how unusual it was.


I've heard that Jesus called people by ONE name, so there was no need for anyone to have two firsts. But I don't know if this theory holds outside of the Bulgarian Orthodox Church and even if it's the official dogma here.


ETA: Heather, your question made me remember a peculiar detail of our own history. When Ferdinand I, then Prince of Bulgaria, married Princess Marie Louise of Bourbon-Parma, the Pope allowed the marriage under the condition that all children born to the couple would be Catholic. Thus, the future Tsar Boris III received an impressive number of middle names. Then, when Ferdinand patched the relationship with Russia and already knew that it would be easier for everyone if Boris was an Orthodox, he invited the Russian Emperor to be his son's godfather upon Boris' conversion to Eastern Orthodoxy. That was the last time I ever saw Boris' full array of middle names used. After the conversion, they seem to have disappeared. Ferdinand's younger, Catholic children had a number of middle names and I can't say if they ever used them but Boris, now Orthodox, certainly did not in any document I can think of.


Come to think of it, I can't remember any Byzantine Emperor ever using a middle name, although it's possible that I just misremember. But Philip's lack of middle name seems more and more region-related to me.
 
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I have the book: "Freddy is expecting in June [of 1940], & we are hoping for an heir."

Were you looking for something in particular?

:previous:Just the date for context. Paul was married in 1938, and Philip would have been attending the Royal Naval College in 1939. I think Alice had expected Philip to return to Greece and completely missed that he chose to serve Britain instead. But yeah, I guessed that the letter was from 1938 and it must have been 1940.
 
:previous:Just the date for context. Paul was married in 1938, and Philip would have been attending the Royal Naval College in 1939. I think Alice had expected Philip to return to Greece and completely missed that he chose to serve Britain instead. But yeah, I guessed that the letter was from 1938 and it must have been 1940.

December 1939. I think both Alice and Philip were hoping he would not have to be King of the Hellenes.
 
While talking about the possible line of succession, we seem to forget Prince Christophoros, the last born of the children of King George I and Queen Olga. He had a first non dynastic marriage with a rich American lady, (then Princess Anastasia), without kids and then he married an Orleans princess and had Michael the known writer in january 1939.
I found that for his first marriage he was not obliged to give up to his succession rights and his wife was titled Princess of Greece and Denmark
In the years around 1938 Prince Christophoros was married with Princess d'Orleans, highly dynastic marriage, they could reign.

On the 60s his son Michael gave up his rights to wed Marina Carella, so it means he had full rights.
I'm not a specialist in succession laws, but it is true that at this moment, the young Philip was the only young blood, all the others even if before him in line, were elderly, and Prince Michael was born in 1939. Up to January 1939 only Philip was, so it is important the date of this letter.

Furthermore I don't see Princess Alice, considering her previous profile, to expect her son to be the King of Greece. But of course we can't be in people's mind.

Now for the names. It seems that in GRF they never gave middle names with exception made for CP Pavlos names who bear an unusual and unpronounceable number of names, except Maria-Olympia, the boy's names are non practical.
For the previous generations of commun Greek people, the only reason to give more than one name was to honor one of the grandparents, but it is made in a special way. The name is pronounced in the church to make the grandpa happy, but never used after.
For the GRF, King George I kids received of course Greek names, and it was impossible to honor the danish grandparents, as names were very different.
For Queen Olga she honored her father with an historical name for Greeks also.
To cut the story short, now it became a trend to have many names, but then no.
 
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Speaking of Prince Michel; he is the only paternal cousin that the late duke of Edinburgh still had. Like the duke's childhood, the one of Prince Michel was also rather unstable. And like with the duke of Edinburgh it was the maternal family who stepped in.

I am not sure however if the two met privately. Prince Michel does not mention the duke often though he does not mind talking about other relatives at all. It is hard/impossible to find a photo of the two together. Though they must have attended some Greek royal weddings or funerals at the same time.
 
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It doesn't seem to be tradition within the Greek royal family to have middle names. It seems an exception that Pavlos' children have hyphenated first names (but formally no middle names either).
Possibly an Orthodox tradtion.. that only one name is given....
 
Correct, furthermore Prince Michael both father and mother died and he found refuge firstly near the Count of Paris, maternal uncle and then to the paternal side, as he moved to Greece, served to the army and stayed there till 1972.
I believe also he was 3rd in line after CP Irini, before King Konstantine had kids.
In the opposite DOE was left unattended while both his parents were alive, this is a major difference.
Talking about Prince Michael and DOE, they both attended King Konstantine marriage, and Prince Michael is often attending royal events, of course we cannot know if they have personal relations, chemistry between people is a mystery.
Speaking of Prince Michel; he is the only paternal cousin that the late duke of Edinburgh still had. Like the duke's childhood, the one of Prince Michel was also rather unstable. And like with the duke of Edinburgh it was the maternal family who stepped in.

I am not sure however if the two met privately. Prince Michel does not mention the duke often though he does not mind talking about other relatives at all. It is hard/impossible to find a photo of the two together. Though they must have attended some Greek royal weddings or funerals at the same time.
 
Speaking of Prince Michel; he is the only paternal cousin that the late duke of Edinburgh still had. Like the duke's childhood, the one of Prince Michel was also rather unstable. And like with the duke of Edinburgh it was the maternal family who stepped in.

I am not sure however if the two met privately. Prince Michel does not mention the duke often though he does not mind talking about other relatives at all. It is hard/impossible to find a photo of the two together. Though they must have attended some Greek royal weddings or funerals at the same time.


Don't know if Prince Michael attended the Wedding of CP Pavlos and Princess Alexia but my guess is yes so that would have been occasions where both op them where present.
 
In Orthodox Christianity, we don't have middle names. I can't speak of Greece in particular but in most Orthodox countries I can think of we have a first name (it might be hyphenated as well), a second name derived from the father and a family name. I won't be surprised it it holds true for Greek names as well and Prince Philip was named under this tradition. He was born Orthodox, after all. But I'll be interested if someone from Greece can explain the lack of second name. Perhaps it's a Greek thing or simply a Greek royal thing? That's if I'm right about the second name derived from the father being valid there as well.

Thank you for the explanation. I wasn’t aware of that but that’s very interesting. So, if I’m understanding correctly, he would have had his first name, a second name, and then a family name or, in the case of royalty, a territory such as “of Greece and Denmark.” So, in this case, Prince Philip ??? of Greece and Denmark. But I’ve never been able to find a second name for him. Has anyone else?

As far as I have read, only the territorial designation "of Greece" was used in Greece, while the "of Denmark" was only included abroad. See Philip's birth certificate, where only "of Greece" was used for members of his family.

https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...ish-titles-28085-post2389005.html#post2389005

In English, the second name derived from the father's personal name is technically termed a patronymic. As Moran explained, patronymics are part of the naming traditions of many Orthodox countries. By Greek naming convention, the son of a man called Andreas would be named Philippos Andreou Glücksburg, though I believe would be referred to in daily life as simply Philippos Glücksburg.
 
As far as I have read, only the territorial designation "of Greece" was used in Greece, while the "of Denmark" was only included abroad. See Philip's birth certificate, where only "of Greece" was used for members of his family.

https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...ish-titles-28085-post2389005.html#post2389005

In English, the second name derived from the father's personal name is technically termed a patronymic. As Moran explained, patronymics are part of the naming traditions of many Orthodox countries. By Greek naming convention, the son of a man called Andreas would be named Philippos Andreou Glücksburg, though I believe would be referred to in daily life as simply Philippos Glücksburg.

I see. Thank you for the explanation! I find names and naming conventions somewhat fascinating and Philip’s is no exception.
 
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