Prime Ministers, Political Advisers and the Powers & Prerogatives of the Monarch


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Mrs May is already strechting royal prerogatives (executed by the Government in name of the Queen) in attempts to keep "the Sovereign" Parliament out of crucial decisionmaking. It is exactly this use (or abuse?) of royal prerogatives which led to a High Court ruling that Parliament must be heard indeed and must give consent before Government can officially notify the EU of its intention to leave by triggering Article 50.

The UK Government has gone in appeal to that ruling.


Personally, I think the English High Court decision was wrong, whereas the NI High Court decision was right. Foreign relations, including treaty negotations, are a royal prerogative that does not require parliamentary approval in the UK. The caveat is though that, unlike in the US, an international treaty, although binding in international law, does not have an immediate effect on domestic law, because changing domestic law requires the advice and consent of parliament. In other words, the government, using the royal prerogative, can negotiate withdrawal from the EU for example, but, in order for future EU law to cease to be in force in the UK, parliament must pass legislation repealing the European Communities Act. The correct timing therefore for parliament to be heard is not when the UK notifies the EU of its intention to trigger Art. 50, but rather when the so-called "Great Repeal Bil" promised by Mrs May is introduced in the House of Commons.

I trust that the UK Supreme Court will overturn the High Court ruling, but we will have to wait and see.
 
Court Circular Buckingham Palace 13 December

The Rt. Hon. Theresa May MP (Prime Minister and First Lord of the Treasury) had an audience of Her Majesty this evening.
 
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Court Circular

Buckingham Palace

14th December, 2016
The Queen held a Council at 5.30pm.
There were present: the Rt. Hon. David Lidington MP (Lord President), the Rt. Hon. Michael Fallon MP (Secretary of State for Defence), the Rt. Hon. Damian Green MP (Secretary of State for Work and Pensions), the Rt. Hon. Sajid Javid MP (Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government), the Rt. Hon. Andrea Leadsom MP (Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs) and the Rt. Hon. Amber Rudd MP (Secretary of State for the Home Department).
Mrs. Ceri King was in attendance as Deputy Clerk of the Council.

The Rt. Hon. David Lidington MP had an audience of Her Majesty before the Council.
 
Why would she, or anyone else want to be on the Privy Council and not swear an oath to the sovereign?
 
The Queen is reported to have been "disappointed" with Theresa May after she declined to share details of her plans for leaving the European Union during her first visit to Balmoral.

The Times quoted a "source close to the monarch" as saying the Prime Minister stuck to her "Brexit means Brexit" line when she went to stay in Scotland in September.

Her reluctance to offer more insight into her private thinking was said to have come as a disappointment to the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh.

Neither Buckingham Palace nor Downing Street would comment on the report.

A palace spokeswoman said: "By long-established convention we never disclose details of discussions between the Queen and her prime ministers. Nor would we comment on anonymously sourced conjecture of this kind."
Read more: Queen 'disappointed when Theresa May refused to reveal Brexit blueprint' - AOL News UK
 
"A palace spokeswoman said: "By long-established convention we never disclose details of discussions between the Queen and her prime ministers. Nor would we comment on anonymously sourced conjecture of this kind."

Squished that little bug right and proper with one fell swoop!
 
Theresa May has the "greatest respect" for the Queen and will share details about her plans for Brexit as soon as they are decided, allies of the Prime Minister said yesterday.

It was yesterday reported that the Queen was left "disappointed" with Theresa May after the Prime Minister declined to share plans for Brexit during her first stay at Balmoral in September.

The Prime Minister stuck to her "Brexit means Brexit" line instead of giving a private briefing on how she intended to proceed with negotiations.

However allies of the said that at the time of the visit Mrs May's plans for Brexit were in the early stages. They suggested that she is likely to be much more forthcoming next year.

"The Queen is one of the most informed people in the World. She has the most acute and alert brain and is frequently far ahead of the politicians," the source said.

"If her Majesty asks the Prime Minister to give details, I'm sure she will give the fullest possible answer.
Read more: Theresa May has 'greatest respect' for the Queen and will share her Brexit plans when they are decided
 
That means its true.. And the Queen selectively leaked her disappointment to the media .. So as to force the PM to promise to share the details with her.. Both sides through "sources". But the palace still acts like a prude!
 
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I doubt the Queen personally leaked anything, in fact, I doubt the Queen asked or hinted or in any other way suggested to anyone for them to leak this. The Queen doesn't do that. Now, if The Queen has said to one of her advisors that she was surprised that the PM didn't share her Brexit plans with her then maybe that person took it upon themself to leak it to the media in the hope of getting this sort of promise. However, its a bit dumb of Downing Street to issue a reply like this as it basically confirms the report and makes BPs statement, about not commenting on rumours like this, look pretty silly.
 
Agreed. Stupid and naive response. Which of the part that the queen doesn't make her views known to the public is not clear? The had better shut up...
 
I doubt the Queen personally leaked anything, in fact, I doubt the Queen asked or hinted or in any other way suggested to anyone for them to leak this. The Queen doesn't do that. Now, if The Queen has said to one of her advisors that she was surprised that the PM didn't share her Brexit plans with her then maybe that person took it upon themself to leak it to the media in the hope of getting this sort of promise. However, its a bit dumb of Downing Street to issue a reply like this as it basically confirms the report and makes BPs statement, about not commenting on rumours like this, look pretty silly.

OK if her advisors leak then then it STILL reflects badly on the Queen. How many people does the Queen tell what she spoke with PM? Her private secretary, 2-3 advisors and maybe PoW. If these 5-6 people can't keep their mouths shut then its really sad. And if she discusses with a much wider range of people, then that "convention of secrecy" is pointless. Does the Queen tolerate her trusted advisors leaking things without her knowledge or consent? All this to what extent us true?To what extent is permissible?

One thing, I see people coming to defence of the Queen with a protective instinct. I myself have done that many times. So don't take this discussion about Queen as a person. It is one of the conflict between two institutions, though looks subtle maybe very serious for those involved

In The Crown, we have seen the Queen blasting Churchill and Salisbury for hiding his illness from her. So she DOES TAKE these things seriously.(Not sure how true, but still) After all, it is her RIGHT TO BE INFORMED. So there is nothing wrong in The Queen getting offended by being kept in dark.
But how does she deal with that is the question. And how right it is.
We have to also remember that in such things, the Queen has to keep a tight leash over the PMs. Once they start taking her for granted, and avert all her questions, she simply has nowhere to go and complain..
 
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I doubt the Queen personally leaked anything, in fact, I doubt the Queen asked or hinted or in any other way suggested to anyone for them to leak this. The Queen doesn't do that. Now, if The Queen has said to one of her advisors that she was surprised that the PM didn't share her Brexit plans with her then maybe that person took it upon themself to leak it to the media in the hope of getting this sort of promise. However, its a bit dumb of Downing Street to issue a reply like this as it basically confirms the report and makes BPs statement, about not commenting on rumours like this, look pretty silly.

The prime minister has a constitutional obligation to keep the Queen informed of the affairs of the realm. If she is withholding information about Brexit plans, my understanding is that Mrs May is therefore acting unconstitutionally. The Queen on the other hand has an obligation to keep her conversations with the prime minister private and I have no doubt she would never leak any confidential information. Mrs May is just being paranoid.
 
An "anonymous source" said that the Queen expressed something.

The Palace stuck to protocol and does not comment on the Queen's dealings with her Prime Minister nor does it comment on "anonymous sources".

Mrs. May reacted to said "anonymous source". Perhaps just to set a record straight and reinforce a statement from the Palace.

The Queen has virtually said nothing in my eyes about the situation at all. We do know though for sure that plans for Brexit are not finalized as of yet.

Its all good.
 
Sometimes I think the papers just make it up and hope that, by publishing it, either BP or Downing Street will release a statement that gives a little more away.
 
Note the wording the PM will share the plans 'when they are decided'.

Therefore she couldn't share plans with the Queen in August as they still aren't decided.

I doubt that there is any veracity to this story at all - other than the fact that it is reasonable to 'guess' that they discussed the topic but as there were no plans made at the time of the PMs visit she couldn't share any with the Queen. The Queen was probably disappointed that there weren't plans in place and that is all. There would be people on both sides who knew that there were no plans in place - still being discussed but not determined - and so they made up a comment to the press which has become a story based on nothing more than supposition.

That has then been spun into a big story where one didn't exist at all.

No plans made in August = nothing to share with the Queen = no story.
 
Theresa May is to visit Buckingham Palace at 12.30 to request permission from Her Majesty to form a Government.
 
Roya Nikkhah‏ @RoyaNikkhah
Theresa May will visit the Queen at 12.30pm today to seek permission to form a government. Sounds like a Tory DUP coalition is on its way
 
It's a question though of how formal this agreement is between the Conservatives and the DUP. They just seem to be having serious talks at the moment. What a mess! Theresa May had a perfectly good majority in the Commons before the election. I expect the Queen will be keeping a very close eye on what develops in the days to come.
 
Theresa May is to visit Buckingham Palace at 12.30 to request permission from Her Majesty to form a Government.

Can Her Majesty refuse to give permission? :cool: Just wondering. (Sorry for my ignorance).
 
I think that statement about asking permission is rather awkwardly phrased. If, when Theresa May meets the Queen and is able to form a (minority) working government, she'll inform HM of that fact and disclose why she has that ability. If the Queen is confident that Theresa May can form government (albeit with another party's support) then she will confirm May as PM. If Theresa May can't form government and informs the Queen of that fact then the Queen would probably ask her to try again. If she can't and Jeremy Corbyn can by some miracle (though personally I think it's an impossibility) then HM will confirm him as PM. That's just the way the system works.
 
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Can Her Majesty refuse to give permission? :cool: Just wondering. (Sorry for my ignorance).



In theory the Sovereign appoints the Prime Minster. Of course we know the reality that it is the electorate who chooses. The Queen maintains the right however to ask the leader of the largest party to form the next government.
 
Can Her Majesty refuse to give permission? :cool: Just wondering. (Sorry for my ignorance).

In theory, yes. But she would have declared a political position if she simply said "No, I don't like your coalition".

So she would never do that. She asks the leader of the largest party in Parliament to form a government, Theresa proposes a coalition and the Queen approves.
 
Those who understand the constitutional limitations, I'd love a little help getting a better grasp of how strong a role the monarch is allowed.

Now, I don't know enough about the DUP to have one opinion or another about the viability of them working with the Conservatives to make May's plan for a government work. I don't know enough about coalition governing, period, not being from a nation with a parliamentary system. So this question is totally hypothetical, not a statement on the current situation.

Say a PM's plan to work with another party to form the government raises a lot of eyebrows and a general questioning of whether the two groups can really work together as promised. If the PM goes into her meeting with the Queen expressing great confidence that she's sorted things out and can form a government, is the Queen constitutionally required to accept the PM's proposal? Or does she have the freedom to say, "no, I really don't think you've thought this through, you need to spend some more time with it and get it right?"

I ask because the situations I've seen described in the past where the monarch would say "no, try again" all hinged on the PM walking in and admitting that the deal may be shaky. In other words, a case where the monarch's refusal to accept the government was really an amplification of the PM's own concerns, and therefore not exactly the monarch expressing political opinion or "meddling."

But does the Queen have the power to draw a line in the sand if she observes problems with a planned coalition that the PM does not see or does not wish to acknowledge?
 
But does the Queen have the power to draw a line in the sand if she observes problems with a planned coalition that the PM does not see or does not wish to acknowledge?

If the Queen has any sort of reservation regarding the coalition and there are alternatives, I'm sure she would express these concerns to the potential PM in private. She would never go public with it, of course.

If the PM believes he/she can form a stable coalition and there are no real alternatives (other parties willing to form a coalition), refusing permission would only lead to scandal and a political deadlock that nobody wants.

So yes, the Queen could "refuse" permission or advise the PM to seek better options but that would happen in private.

Since what goes on in audiences between the Queen and PM is absolutely confidential, we can only guess.
 
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The Queen's Private Secretary was apparently seen at the Cabinet office before PM visited BP. Likewise during the coalition discussions in the 2010 election the Queen's Private Secretary made regular visits to receive updates on the negotiations, as such I think its safe to say the Queen would never be put in the position of having a PM or potential PM arrive at BP only to say they can not form a stable enough government (those conversations would be done in private).


During the last hung parliament in 2010 it was quite openly said the Queen (Who was at Windsor I think) would not return to BP until it was clear a deal had been done to create a coalition government.

Ahead of the 2010 election the Cabinet Secretary put the unwritten rules about what to do in a hung parliament on paper http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32475098
As the BBC states:
A priority was to protect the Queen from any sticky constitutional predicament in the event of a hung parliament.

and one the main 4 rules is:

Prime ministers hold office unless and until they resign. If the prime minister resigns on behalf of the government, the monarch will invite the person most likely to command the confidence of the Commons to become prime minister and form a government. So, the Queen has no effective power over appointing a new PM
 
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The way the system actually works varies from one monarchy to another.


In Spain, following a general election, the King, through the Speaker of the House of Representatives, actually has to propose a candidate to be the next prime minister . The proposed nominee is then put to a vote in the House and confirmed if he/she gets the support of a majority (more than half) of the members. If the proposed candidate fails to be confirmed in the first ballot, he/she can be confirmed in a second ballot by a simple plurality as long as the number of members voting against the nomination is not bigger than the number of those voting in favor of it (that's what just happened to Mariano Rajoy following the last Spanish general election BTW). If the two aforementioned ballots fail to confirm the PM , the King might propose another candidate , but, if 90 days from the first investiture vote elapse without a PM being confirmed, then the House of Representatives is dissolved and a new election is called.

Sweden uses a slightly different system where, after the election, if the sitting PM doesn't resign, a vote in parliament to confirm him/her in office is held (at most two weeks after the new parliament is convened). A confirmation only requires however that there is not a majority (more than half) of the MPs voting against it, which is sometimes called "negative parliamentarism" if I recall it correctly. If the PM resigns or is discharged and the office is vacant, the Speaker of the parliament proposes a new candidate to become PM and the nomination is put to a vote where, again, the proposed candidate succeeds if there is not a majority of MPs voting against him/her; note that, when abstentions are taken into account, the Swedish model could in theory deliver a PM that actually had fewer votes among MPs to confirm him/her than to reject him/her (as long as the reject vote doesn't get above 50 % + 1 of the MPs). If after four attempts, all proposed candidates are rejected under the rules above, then parliament is dissolved and a new election is called.

The UK, on the other hand, follows a different model, which has actually changed slightly since 2011. Unlike in Spain or Sweden, there is no compulsory confirmation vote in the House of Commons (HoC) for someone to become or stay as PM. A person holds the office of PM as long as he/she doesn't resign or is removed by the Queen (the latter situation happened the last time during the reign of William IV, so it's not really relevant today).

Basically, in the UK, if it is clear that the PM and his/her party lost the election, then he/she resigns and advises the Queen to send for the leader of the opposition to form a new government. Otherwise, the incumbent government, as the representative of the party with the most seats in the HoC (though not necessarily a majority) usually has a go on trying to form a new government. If the HoC later passes a motion of no confidence in the proposed new government, which requires only a simple majority (i.e. more MPs voting for it than against it), then the House has 14 days to pass a motion of confidence most likely in another alternative government, or otherwise, a snap election is triggered and the House is automatically dissolved (I believe, 25 working days before the date set for the snap election). In any case, the PM never leaves office until a new PM is appointed, which always happens in an audience with the Queen.


Those who understand the constitutional limitations, I'd love a little help getting a better grasp of how strong a role the monarch is allowed.

Now, I don't know enough about the DUP to have one opinion or another about the viability of them working with the Conservatives to make May's plan for a government work. I don't know enough about coalition governing, period, not being from a nation with a parliamentary system. So this question is totally hypothetical, not a statement on the current situation.

Say a PM's plan to work with another party to form the government raises a lot of eyebrows and a general questioning of whether the two groups can really work together as promised. If the PM goes into her meeting with the Queen expressing great confidence that she's sorted things out and can form a government, is the Queen constitutionally required to accept the PM's proposal? Or does she have the freedom to say, "no, I really don't think you've thought this through, you need to spend some more time with it and get it right?"

I ask because the situations I've seen described in the past where the monarch would say "no, try again" all hinged on the PM walking in and admitting that the deal may be shaky. In other words, a case where the monarch's refusal to accept the government was really an amplification of the PM's own concerns, and therefore not exactly the monarch expressing political opinion or "meddling."

But does the Queen have the power to draw a line in the sand if she observes problems with a planned coalition that the PM does not see or does not wish to acknowledge?
 
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Thank you everyone for the information. :flowers:

What I don't understand is why Jeremy Corbyn forming his own coalition is so improbable. It's likely a complicated answer so don't feel a need to explain, but I just think it would make sense for him to try to do that. :flowers:
 
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