Death of HRH the Duke of Edinburgh: 9 April 2021

[tommy100]

It is often said that after the divorce of Margaret and Earl Snowdon the Queen and Philip invited Sarah and David to family holidays, weekends etc. I suspect they may been closer than we think or see.

 

[Alison H]

I see that the guest list has been released, it's practically as I expected it.


However, I have a question: on https://www.royal.uk/funeral-duke-edinburgh-0, it says "The Earl of Wessex and Forfar" and "The Countess of Wessex and Forfar".
What does Forfar mean?

Forfar's a place in Scotland. Often used in football score jokes, especially when Forfar are playing East Fife - try saying "Forfar 4 - 5 East Fife" without getting muddled!

They've all got separate Scottish titles - Charles and Camilla are the Duke and Duchess of Rothesay and William and Kate are the Earl and Countess of Strathearn. I don't know why only Edward and Sophie have been given their Scottish titles in the list, though .

 

[Osipi]

Echo the thoughts about Prince Michael. I’d expected the absence of Daniel Chatto, the Duke of Gloucester or having just one of Princess Margaret’s children to represent her given that he is a closer blood relative to Philip and was a pageboy. I hope he is okay.

What we don't know is if Prince Michael was on the invite list and declined for some reason and then an alternate was added to take his place. Perhaps Daniel Chatto was added as an alternate to someone that, for some reason, had to decline the invitation to attend. We just have the finished and polished guest list as approved by the Queen. There'll be no explanations.

 

[_Heather_]

I suspect Edward's Scottish title was added as a nice little wink and a nod toward the fact that even outside of Scotland the late Duke was always the Duke of Edinburgh (clearly a Scottish title) and that someday Edward will be the next DoE. I wouldn't honestly read too much into it. Sometimes the RF does small, inconspicuous little wink and nod type things like this.

 

[Hallo girl]

I was originally surprised by the inclusion of Philips German family just because of quarantine which was silly really as all they had to do was let them know in plenty of time they were invited as with Harry. But as I have seen photographs of the family with the queen taken in the last few years it is no surprise really. Also the Elizabeth at 90 documentary also included film / photographs of Philips family. Once again we are back to people assuming that the royals do not see anybody other than at public events.
Away from lockdown we have no idea who the queen and Philip would invite to visit them for weekends or during the summer at Balmoral.
Referring back to that documentary you also see how close Sarah Chatto and her brother are to the queen.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

It will be sad not to hear the full choir of St George's Chapel singing. Especially the traditional & moving Funeral Sentences by William Croft

I so agree. For me, the Sentences are always the most hauntingly beautiful part of a British Royal funeral service.

 

[forcedmeme]

It's because the two Earldoms are of equal rank.
Whereas the Prince of Wales and Dukedoms are of higher rank.


Peers (whether Royal or not) always use their highest title and if they have two of the same rank they use both. For example the Duke of Buccleuch is also the Duke of Queensberry so is addressed as the Duke of Buccleuch and Queensberry. The same thing is happening here with Edward.

 

[Frelinghighness]

The duchesse of Cornwall doesn’t use her higher title which is princess of Wales

 

[Osipi]

The duchesse of Cornwall doesn’t use her higher title which is princess of Wales

Yeps. She chose to use Charles' *oldest* title instead.

 

[Marc23]

I was originally surprised by the inclusion of Philips German family just because of quarantine which was silly really as all they had to do was let them know in plenty of time they were invited as with Harry.

I am not surprised, as Philip always stated that he is close to his German relatives. His niece Princess Margarita of Baden was always invited to almost every royal family event, including yearly Windsor Christmas gathering.

It would be a bit strange not to include his closest relatives even if they all live abroad. Now, we know that it was Philip's wish to include them and that sends some "message". I think that he wanted his family to know that he wanted them to continue to keep in touch with his relatives even after his death.

 

[Queen Ester]

Yeps. She chose to use Charles' *oldest* title instead.

Which was very smart of her

 

[Hallo girl]

I am not surprised, as Philip always stated that he is close to his German relatives. His niece Princess Margarita of Baden was always invited to almost every royal family event, including yearly Windsor Christmas gathering.

It would be a bit strange not to include his closest relatives even if they all live abroad. Now, we know that it was Philip's wish to include them and that sends some "message". I think that he wanted his family to know that he wanted them to continue to keep in touch with his relatives even after his death.

You are only quoting part of my post, I had said I had thought because of quarantine they wouldn't be there which was silly. I then go on to give reasons why I shouldn't have been surprised.

Please quote me correctly.

 

[Fijiro]

Does anyone know why Prince Philip's family were not invited to his wedding?

.

 

[MARG]

It is often said that after the divorce of Margaret and Earl Snowdon the Queen and Philip invited Sarah and David to family holidays, weekends etc. I suspect they may been closer than we think or see.

Yes they are very close. Sarah and Daniel were very close to their Aunt and Uncle and spent a lot of time with them, moreso when their mother became I'll and lived at the Palace. After her death they kept close contact and to this day one expects to see one or the other at any royal gathering.

If there is one thing that has become glaringly obvious it is just how close the extended family is. While Philip's family was unable to attend the wedding due to their nationality, they still visited them in 1947. Close royal friends seemed to drop in quite frequently and it seems that Philip and Charles at the very least visited the extended family in Germany quite often. The BRF itself seems to spend a lot of time together as Eugenie's incinerated sausages attest.

It's all very interesting to discover since the media seem to have used a lot of print over the years claiming the cold BRF were both isolated and distant with each other to the point that I feel like screaming "moronic vultures" if I see another headline or talking head wondering if The Queen will cry! [emoji2959]

 

[An Ard Ri]

Does anyone know why Prince Philip's family were not invited to his wedding?

.

You mean his sisters?
It was after the War and they had married German Princes so they were not invited along with other German relations.



His mother was present as were a lot of his royal cousins from Greece, Yugoslavia and Romania.

 

[VictoriaB]

Does anyone know why Prince Philip's family were not invited to his wedding?

.

I take it you mean his German relatives (his mother and Mountbattens were there). It was because the Second World War ended in 1945 and the marriage took place in 1948. There were still a lot of grieving families and it would have been seen as insensitive.

 

[Sunnystar]

It is often said that after the divorce of Margaret and Earl Snowdon the Queen and Philip invited Sarah and David to family holidays, weekends etc. I suspect they may been closer than we think or see.

For all intents and purposes, Philip was the only uncle Sarah and David have had for over nearly forty years. Their father had an older sister who died in 1986, 3 years after her husband passed away. Their father also had a, much, younger brother who is only a year or two older than David and about 4 years older than Sarah. I think it's really unfair to say "oh, but they aren't BLOOD relatives of Philip therefore, they aren't as important" - I've never thought of my uncles by marriage as any less a part of my family as my uncle by blood is a part of my family. I would guess that they probably felt especially close to him - I know my cousins who have lost their fathers have formed closer relationships with some of their uncles. I would guess that Sarah and David had a pretty strong relationship with Philip, but that's just a strong hunch based on what we do know about the family interactions and visits.

 

[Sionevar]

Does anyone know why Prince Philip's family were not invited to his wedding?

Short answer - it took place not long after WW2, and his sisters had all married German princes, some of whom had Nazi connections.

 

[Fijiro]

For all intents and purposes, Philip was the only uncle Sarah and David have had for over nearly forty years. Their father had an older sister who died in 1986, 3 years after her husband passed away. Their father also had a, much, younger brother who is only a year or two older than David and about 4 years older than Sarah. I think it's really unfair to say "oh, but they aren't BLOOD relatives of Philip therefore, they aren't as important" - I've never thought of my uncles by marriage as any less a part of my family as my uncle by blood is a part of my family. I would guess that they probably felt especially close to him - I know my cousins who have lost their fathers have formed closer relationships with some of their uncles. I would guess that Sarah and David had a pretty strong relationship with Philip, but that's just a strong hunch based on what we do know about the family interactions and visits.

I agree with you. And I want to add that the Queen had only one sibling Margaret and these are Margaret's kids. I would've been really surprised if they weren't included.

 

[Alison H]

My uncle isn't a blood uncle, but he and my auntie were married long before my sister and I were born, and he's been a big part of our lives all along. The same with David and Sarah and Prince Philip. I'd have been very surprised if David and Sarah hadn't been asked. It's just such a shame that there has to be all this stressing over getting the guest list down to 30, but a lot of people are in that position at the moment.

 

[Betsypaige]

This is 9:30 am EST, I believe

You will be able to watch a live stream of the ceremony on the Royal Family's YouTube channel from approximately 2.30pm BST on Saturday 17 April 2021.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1382775581901733888

 

[tommy100]

During a week of watching royal clips I've just had the chance to watch the Elizabeth at 90:A Family Tribute again. Anyone who has seen that will see how close Sarah and David were to the family and the way Sarah speaks about her Auntie shows there is a real strong bond there.

 

[Hallo girl]

During a week of watching royal clips I've just had the chance to watch the Elizabeth at 90:A Family Tribute again. Anyone who has seen that will see how close Sarah and David were to the family and the way Sarah speaks about her Auntie shows there is a real strong bond there.

Do you have Prime, that is where I found it, it was lovely how Sarah spoke about her aunt. Also the different relatives in the various home movies, the fun they all had. Not the cold family that people talk about,

 

[Hallo girl]

My uncle isn't a blood uncle, but he and my auntie were married long before my sister and I were born, and he's been a big part of our lives all along. The same with David and Sarah and Prince Philip. I'd have been very surprised if David and Sarah hadn't been asked. It's just such a shame that there has to be all this stressing over getting the guest list down to 30, but a lot of people are in that position at the moment.

That's true, lots of people making difficult decisions, but people should understand. I also do not think there is anything strange in who is there and who isn't, difficult decisions.

 

[Betsypaige]

I forget if I mentioned it, it the ITV Philip special that aired on PBS was absolutely fantastic

Also, for anyone (at least in US) who gets Smithsonian Channel (my fave channel), their Saturday schedule is all in honor of Philip. It includes episodes of Aerial Britain (a wonderful look at Britain from above), Aerial Greece, Private Lives of Windsor (Lord Mountbatten, Queen Mother), Inside Windsor Castle (3 parts), Inside Buckingham Palace (2 parts).

They’re all fantastic programs

Do you have Prime, that is where I found it, it was lovely how Sarah spoke about her aunt. Also the different relatives in the various home movies, the fun they all had. Not the cold family that people talk about,

I remember seeing clips of Charles watching home movies of he, his siblings and parents (for a special on his mother, I think)...it was wonderful; it was like he was rediscovering memories that he’d pushed aside or seeing things for the first time that he was too young to remote. William and Harry got kicks out of watching their dad as a kid in home movies also - for Charles at 70, I think

 

[Hallo girl]

I have just been watching the news , showing the military rehearsals for Saturday. Although obviously lower key with regards numbers i.e 30 guests. There will be a certain amount of ceremony. Shorter procession as well compared to the London funerals.

I remember seeing clips of Charles watching home movies of he, his siblings and parents (for a special on his mother, I think)...it was wonderful; it was like he was rediscovering memories that he’d pushed aside or seeing things for the first time that he was too young to remote. William and Harry got kicks out of watching their dad as a kid in home movies also - for Charles at 70, I think

I think there was one for the Jubilee but the One I am talking about tonight is ' Elizabeth at 90 a Family Tribute. It was as you describe family home movies mixed with the family watching them and talking about them. Harry makes a comment about his dad in a pedal car with a cushion, just like now .

William and Harry speak about how beautiful their granny was and how handsome Philip. Maybe we are talking about the same programme,

 

[tommy100]

This is the one I have been watching, with clips from home movies watched by the family.

 

[Betsypaige]

I think there was one for the Jubilee but the One I am talking about tonight is ' Elizabeth at 90 a Family Tribute. It was as you describe family home movies mixed with the family watching them and talking about them. Harry makes a comment about his dad in a pedal car with a cushion, just like now .

William and Harry speak about how beautiful their granny was and how handsome Philip. Maybe we are talking about the same programme,

I think I saw it...awhile ago, though. It won’t be airing here soon, unfortunately

...

This is the one I have been watching, with clips from home movies watched by the family.

Ooh, thanks for posting - I definitely need to see this !

 

[Hallo girl]

I think I saw it...awhile ago, though. It won’t be airing here soon, unfortunately

It was on about 5 years ago but I saw it tonight on PRIME, but I think it must be on you tube as that is what Tommy put up as a link well worth a watch.

 

[Kaye1850]

I take it you mean his German relatives (his mother and Mountbattens were there). It was because the Second World War ended in 1945 and the marriage took place in 1948. There were still a lot of grieving families and it would have been seen as insensitive.

Just for the sake of accuracy, their marriage took place November 1947.
Prince Charles was born a year later, in 1948.