Death of HRH the Duke of Edinburgh: 9 April 2021

[Tatiana Maria]

For me small children and some spouses will be absent to make rooms for, at least, The Duke of Goucester, the Kents brothers and Pcess Alexandra.

Absolutely! They are still listed on the website as part of the RF.

Most of the small children and spouses are listed as part of the Royal Family as well. It is a lengthy list.

https://www.royal.uk/sites/default/files/media/annex_d_-_royal_family_11.pdf

 

[poppy7]

Most of the small children and spouses are listed as part of the Royal Family as well. It is a lengthy list.

https://www.royal.uk/sites/default/files/media/annex_d_-_royal_family_11.pdf

45 without Phil.

But Meghan and Archie are out. Serena. Autumn. Lena. Louis.

Delays others are you see fit.

You gotta loose 10.

 

[kalnel]

I'm guessing the Queen, Charles, Camilla, Anne, Tim, Andrew, Edward, Sophie; William, Kate, Harry, Peter, Zara, Mike, Beatrice, Edo, Eugenie, Jack, Louise, and James (That's 20)

Then maybe George, Charlotte, Savannah, Isla (24)

Just guessing: Duke of Kent, Princess Alexandra, Countess Mountbatten, Pamela Hicks, Ashley Hicks (29)

Or maybe: Fergie, Autumn Phillips, Duke of Gloucester, Michael of Kent, some German niece or nephew

Plus the private secetary

 

[_Heather_]

Sophie and Edward have just left Windsor Castle according to The Daily Telegraph's live blog

As she left Windsor Castle, the Countess of Wessex said "the Queen has been amazing".

Sophie spoke to reporters from a Land Rover driven by her husband, the Earl of Wessex.

The couple spent around an hour at the castle on Saturday morning

My heart broke for Sophie when I watched the clip of this interaction. She's always been so close to both HM and the late DoE and it was very, very clear that this was very much a family moment more that anything else. It's so very clear how much she's admired HM through the years and she was so honest and real with her comment and the small smile this morning.

 

[yukari]

I think it is incredibly important to learn the rituals of life and death within the safe place of an elderly relatives passing. I say safe as it is a normal life progression. To understand this but also to gain through social learning an appreciation that you to will cope with an emotional life upheaval because you are seeing others do it.

Basically kids need to see and experience things happen or they just don't get it.

Agree. During my great-grandma's funeral, I've heard story about her life, how she lived through wartime and her struggle in raising her two daughters alone without husband, but she pulled through and lived on till old age. Compare to hers, me being bullied at school seemed so paled in comparison, a silly reason to end my life at 12. I learnt to appreciate my life, be strong instead of thinking of suicide when things get hard.

Another lesson was that death is natural course of life, so I have no regret about missing my grandma's funeral. I'd said my goodbye and it's more important for me to cherish the memory of her than fixate to the fact that I wasn't with her during her last hour or that I didn't witness her burial. And 5 years later, to let go of my grandpa instead of prolonging his misery (his health had deteriorated rapidly after grandma's passed and he's on life support in the last 2 months of his life).

Maybe because it was my great-grandma (not some stranger famous figure) and the fact that I was 10 (so there's still a lot of "blank space" in my mind to be filled), those "lessons" are engraved so deeply in my mind and I'm grateful for that. And I wish the same thing for Savannah, Isla, George, Mia, and Charlotte (especially George because his future life wouldn't be an easy ride).

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I was just wondering, aren't all Countesses by marriages to Counts? Are there any Countesses who are by their own rights?

At the present time there is only the Countess of Mar. All other British peeresses in their own right, whether hereditary or life, are baronesses/ladies.

 

[Erin9]

I'm putting this here for obvious reasons, but I suppose it may belong in the Relationships thread.



I've always been interested in Charles' relationship with his parents; this one has some insights into his with Philip.



They really did have quite a few things in common - it's just that Charles wasn't the alpha-male Philip was.



I didn't realize Camilla had helped bring them together; she's really remarkable. It actually reminds me of how Kate helped bring Charles and William closer.



I'm so glad that Charles and his father "reconciled" and grew closer over the years. There are few things in this world worse than living with regret....





https://www.itv.com/news/2021-04-10...-duke-of-edinburgh-and-his-son-prince-charles

This was a lovely article. I’m glad they were able to grow closer.

It’s long been interesting to me that as different as their temperaments were, Charles and Philip had a lot of similar interests: the environment, painting, youth, both forward thinkers, etc. I would think that would have been helpful. They were talking points that weren’t emotional landlines.

It’s interesting- though not surprising really IMO - that the women (Camilla and Catherine) were likely instrumental in helping the men work things out.

 

[Betsypaige]

This was a lovely article. I’m glad they were able to grow closer.

It’s long been interesting to me that as different as their temperaments were, Charles and Philip had a lot of similar interests: the environment, painting, youth, both forward thinkers, etc.

So true, and I’m sure it pleased Philip a great deal that Charles took his advocacy about the environment to heart and subsequently passed on that love of same to William.

 

[Rayal]

I feel very sad for the queen as she will feel alone I believe even though surrounded by a great family. My condolences to my fellow commenters who admired him and also feel the loss, especially those in Great Britain. May he always rest in peace.

 

[Lord_Royal]

Prince Philip is one of those figures who pre-existed the start of my lifetime. To have lived into the hundredth year of a lifespan is something to be grateful for. I will, of course, be watching his funeral with interest and reflect on the statement Her Majesty made years ago, that we all owed him a debt far greater than we would ever know.

 

[camelot23ca]

This was a lovely article. I’m glad they were able to grow closer.

It’s long been interesting to me that as different as their temperaments were, Charles and Philip had a lot of similar interests: the environment, painting, youth, both forward thinkers, etc. I found think that would have been helpful. They were talking points that weren’t emotional landlines.

I think they were probably alike in many ways but were very dissimilar in one crucial way, in that Charles could be wishy washy and also somewhat of a whiner, whereas his father was the exact opposite.

I could see Philip looking at Charles, who had two loving parents in a stable marriage, a sister close in age to grow up with, no financial worries, never had to wonder which relative would take him in next and who was at the centre of a permanent and historic institution from the day he was born - and then watching him make mistake after mistake in his marriage, (and at one point listening to him whine about how his parents were never there for him) - and just shaking his head in frustration.

The part of the article about Philip writing Charles to suggest he make a decision about Diana is telling, if true. Philip knew that Charles could mess around for as long as he wanted and come out unscathed, whereas Diana’s reputation could be much more easily damaged. Philip had a clear sense of right and wrong and he also knew what it was like to have an insecure position in life in a way that Charles most certainly didn’t. I’m not surprised that the nuances in his father’s letter may have been lost on Charles.

 

[Erin9]

I think they were probably alike in many ways but were very dissimilar in one crucial way, in that Charles could be wishy washy and also somewhat of a whiner, whereas his father was the exact opposite.



I could see Philip looking at Charles, who had two loving parents in a stable marriage, a sister close in age to grow up with, no financial worries, never had to wonder which relative would take him in next and who was at the centre of a permanent and historic institution from the day he was born - and then watching him make mistake after mistake in his marriage, (and at one point listening to him whine about how his parents were never there for him) - and just shaking his head in frustration.



The part of the article about Philip writing Charles to suggest he make a decision about Diana is telling, if true. Philip knew that Charles could mess around for as long as he wanted and come out unscathed, whereas Diana’s reputation could be much more easily damaged. Philip had a clear sense of right and wrong and he also knew what it was like to have an insecure position in life in a way that Charles most certainly didn’t. I’m not surprised that the nuances in his father’s letter may have been lost on Charles.

Agreed. I’ve thought the same thing- that Philip coming from such an insecure background could easily have looked at Charles and just shook his head. Especially about parents not being there for him. Look at Philip’s parents. (And I’m not criticizing Philip’s parents. They went through a lot. But I thought it notable that I don’t think Philip ever publicly criticized them.)

I’d never really thought about the insecurity of Diana’s position, but I can see that as something that Philip would have appreciated in a way Charles wouldn’t.

Interesting really: Philip had an unstable family and married a woman from a close, stable family. William did the same thing.

 

[Stefan]

Yes, after Elizabeth passes, they will both be interred in the George VI Memorial Chapel.

Is there enough space. At the time of Margaret' s funeral it was said she was cremated because there would have not been enough space in the Crypt there

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I understood there is "always" space for Sovereigns and their consorts. Other members of the royal family are usually buried at Frogmore.

It was Princess Margaret's wish to be interred with her father and that meant she had to be cremated.

Prince Philip is a consort and there always was space for him.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Is there enough space. At the time of Margaret' s funeral it was said she was cremated because there would have not been enough space in the Crypt there

When the chapel was finished in 1969 it was said that there was enough room in there for six coffins - George VI and the Queen Mum, Elizabeth and Philip and Charles and his future consort.

When Margaret died she wanted to be buried with her parents but they didn't want her to take up the space of a coffin as that would mean that the plans had to change and so she was cremated so her urn could go with her parents.

I know Charles wasn't married at the time but I suspect they were realistic enough to think that he probably would remarry at some time in the future and therefore wanted to leave the original plans in place.

 

[Stefan]

When the chapel was finished in 1969 it was said that there was enough room in there for six coffins - George VI and the Queen Mum, Elizabeth and Philip and Charles and his future consort.

When Margaret died she wanted to be buried with her parents but they didn't want her to take up the space of a coffin as that would mean that the plans had to change and so she was cremated so her urn could go with her parents.

I know Charles wasn't married at the time but I suspect they were realistic enough to think that he probably would remarry at some time in the future and therefore wanted to leave the original plans in place.

Thanks. The chapel certainly doesn't look as there is place for 6 coffins as it is so tony but probably the Crypt is bigger then one assumes.

 

[Estel]

I think they were probably alike in many ways but were very dissimilar in one crucial way, in that Charles could be wishy washy and also somewhat of a whiner, whereas his father was the exact opposite.

I could see Philip looking at Charles, who had two loving parents in a stable marriage, a sister close in age to grow up with, no financial worries, never had to wonder which relative would take him in next and who was at the centre of a permanent and historic institution from the day he was born - and then watching him make mistake after mistake in his marriage, (and at one point listening to him whine about how his parents were never there for him) - and just shaking his head in frustration.

The part of the article about Philip writing Charles to suggest he make a decision about Diana is telling, if true. Philip knew that Charles could mess around for as long as he wanted and come out unscathed, whereas Diana’s reputation could be much more easily damaged. Philip had a clear sense of right and wrong and he also knew what it was like to have an insecure position in life in a way that Charles most certainly didn’t. I’m not surprised that the nuances in his father’s letter may have been lost on Charles.

Yeah, there was a documentary which said that Charles misinterpreted that letter to be an ultimatum on marrying her (Diana).

What's even more interesting is that Charles seems to have given a similar advice regarding Catherine to William, and he broke up with her at that time. Thank heavens he got back with her later on though.

 

[Alison H]

It is a VERY sad thing despite his age. But no one in that family will cry or show any kind of emotion during the funeral. I doubt they express emotion among themselves to be perfectly honest. It is not healthy and it is strange.

Is the lack of emotion a British cultural thing? I am only curious.

The "stiff upper lip"? It's actually a Greek idea, going back to the Spartans! British public schools in the 19th century were very into Spartan ideas - and, in the 20th century, Gordonstoun probably epitomised that! But look at Queen Victoria and her elaborate mourning. I think it became a general thing during the First World War, when, sadly, there were so many deaths that people just had to carry on when they were grieving, or else the country and the war effort would have collapsed. But it's just a bit of a stereotype, like the idea that Italians are all very emotional or Swiss people are all super-organised or Australians are all really laid back and casual - there's some truth to it, but no-one's going to be shocked if someone cries at a funeral.

 

[Heavs]

We saw Sophie and Charles express emotion publicly yesterday and no doubt have done among themselves. The things we've heard and seen don't point to a lack of emotion about this in the family. Some will "keep it together" at the televised funeral and others may not.

Speaking of my own family, my uncle who epitomised "stiff upper lip" thinking completely broke down at his father's funeral in a way that shocked me - although it probably shouldn't have, so you never know what will happen.

 

[Estel]

We saw Sophie and Charles express emotion publicly yesterday and no doubt have done among themselves. The things we've heard and seen don't point to a lack of emotion about this in the family. Some will "keep it together" at the televised funeral and others may not.

Speaking of my own family, my uncle who epitomised "stiff upper lip" thinking completely broke down at his father's funeral in a way that shocked me - although it probably shouldn't have, so you never know what will happen.

Agree. The Queen has publically shed tears. So much of what is said about the Royal Family is exaggeration. They're humans at the end of the day.
N even if they do not show emotion during the funeral or anywhere else, that's their prerogative. I'm absolutely uncomfortable with showing my emotions, and it works fine for me. People should be allowed to grieve the way they want to, and should not be judged for that.

 

[Betsypaige]

I think they were probably alike in many ways but were very dissimilar in one crucial way, in that Charles could be wishy washy and also somewhat of a whiner, whereas his father was the exact opposite.

I could see Philip looking at Charles, who had two loving parents in a stable marriage, a sister close in age to grow up with, no financial worries, never had to wonder which relative would take him in next and who was at the centre of a permanent and historic institution from the day he was born - and then watching him make mistake after mistake in his marriage, (and at one point listening to him whine about how his parents were never there for him) - and just shaking his head in frustration.

The part of the article about Philip writing Charles to suggest he make a decision about Diana is telling, if true. Philip knew that Charles could mess around for as long as he wanted and come out unscathed, whereas Diana’s reputation could be much more easily damaged. Philip had a clear sense of right and wrong and he also knew what it was like to have an insecure position in life in a way that Charles most certainly didn’t. I’m not surprised that the nuances in his father’s letter may have been lost on Charles.

I don’t think it’s fair to call Charles wishy washy just because he was softer and gentler than his father. I was just saying elsewhere today that I understand Philip now better than I did before, having thought about his tough childhood. I suspect that he got through it by being tough, by having a “just do it” attitude, etc. Therefore he probably assumed that’s the only way to be a man.

I wish Charles hadn’t publicly spoken (via his biography) about his parents not being there, but nonetheless, those were his feelings...and, I don’t think it can be disputed they weren’t there as much as he’d have liked. He very likely remembers his mother holding out her hand for a handshake upon return from that trip (which there’s video). I DO think it’s likely that, because of Charles’ resentment (IMO, which I understand), he probably did (at the time Dimbelby’s book came out and also for much of his life) forget all the good times he had with his parents, how much they loved him. I remember him watching those home movies (it was for a special, I forget which one) and getting a kick out of them.

I’ve always taken Philip’s advice about Diana it to mean “just make a decision one way or the other“, as opposed to him telling Charles to marry her, but Charles by then was likely not only intimidated by his father but inclined to think the worst.

Anyway, the important thing is that they WERE able to move past their issues and have a good relationship, which is what matters to me now.

 

[tommy100]

For those who may be interested this is how the news was broken on various UK channels (not my video)

 

[An Ard Ri]

A Service of Remembrance was held for the Duke of Edinburgh at Canterbury Cathedral this morning.

The Archbishop of Canterbury presided over the Service

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-56706408

There was also a Service of Morning Prayer and thanksgiving for the Life of HRH The Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh from Westminster Abbey earlier.
https://www.westminster-abbey.org/abbey-news/radio-4-to-broadcast-matins-from-the-abbey

 

[maria-olivia]

Charles said Papa ..

 

[Claire]

Knowing the late DoE, he'd probably think 30 people is still too many....

yes - he did once suggest that Anne and Edward take him out in a dingy and dump him in the Atlantic while playing Duke Ellington records.

 

[yukari]

 

[Tirilschatz]

Camilla is officially the second lady of the land so it would make sense for her to accompany the Queen.

Plus she doesnt have children that might need her in that moment.

 

[Denville]

yes - he did once suggest that Anne and Edward take him out in a dingy and dump him in the Atlantic while playing Duke Ellington records.

im sure he woudl want his immediate family at his funeral to say goodbye...

 

[Betsypaige]

For those who may be interested this is how the news was broken on various UK channels (not my video)

Thank you for posting this! The BBC anchor was so emotional....��������

Yukari, thanks for posting those videos...I find them so moving

 

[Moran]

OT: One of my favourite historical places in Sofia is the Battenberg Mausoleum (the Memorial Tomb of Alexander I of Battenberg). He was the first Head of State of modern Bulgaria. It's a beautiful, if understated place. It's dignified without intruding on the passers-by. I think I'll go there on the day of the funeral and give Prince Philip some thought. (Alexander of Battenberg was his grandfather's brother and a historical figure of great, recently rediscovered importance in our modern history.)