Death of HRH the Duke of Edinburgh: 9 April 2021

[Biri]

This beautiful poem by Alfred Tennyson (1809-1892) suits the Duke of Edinburgh so much:

Sunset and evening star,
And one clear call for me!
And may there be no moaning of the bar,
When I put out to sea,

But such a tide as moving seems asleep,
Too full for sound and foam,
When that which drew from out the boundless deep
Turns again home.

Twilight and evening bell,
And after that the dark!
And may there be no sadness of farewell,
When I embark;

For tho' from out our bourne of Time and Place
The flood may bear me far,
I hope to see my Pilot face to face
When I have crost the bar.

After long and fulfilled life, for a dutiful Prince, soldier, Naval Officer, loving husband, father, grandfather and great-grandfather - a time to embark has come...??????????

 

[Somebody]

This CNN video includes part of an interview with king Constantine of Greece (probably taped around the duke's retirement; or even earlier). And 'the bridesmaid' is Lady Pamela Hicks if I'm not mistaken. She talks about how it was love from an early age (13 for the queen), that he was handsome and that queen Elizabeth never had an eye for any other man.

 

[BriarRose]

No they can't just pass the title on. There is a line of succession to the Edinburgh title in existence:

I recall that on the Earl of Wessex's wedding day, it was widely reported that the Queen, Charles & Edward all agreed that Charles would bestow the dukedom of Edinburgh on Edward "in due course", meaning after the dukedom reverted to the crown once Charles became King.

Of course, the agreement is not legally binding, but I can't imagine Charles won't honor his mother's wishes.

So Edward can't get the title now. When he is granted the title by (King) Charles, Edward's son will be the future Duke of Edinburgh after Edward. So it could continue on for quite some time before possibly reverting to the crown again (if ever- I can't recall the oldest peerage at the moment).

 

[Betsypaige]

This beautiful poem by Alfred Tennyson (1809-1892) suits Dthe Duke of Edinburgh so much:

Sunset and evening star,
And one clear call for me!
And may there be no moaning of the bar,
When I put out to sea,

But such a tide as moving seems asleep,
Too full for sound and foam,
When that which drew from out the boundless deep
Turns again home.

Twilight and evening bell,
And after that the dark!
And may there be no sadness of farewell,
When I embark;

For tho' from out our bourne of Time and Place
The flood may bear me far,
I hope to see my Pilot face to face
When I have crost the bar.

After long and fulfilled life, for a dutiful Prince, soldier, Naval Officer, loving husband, father, grandfather and great-grandfather - a time to embark has come...??????????

That is gorgeous, and very fitting Prince Philip...

 

[MARG]

Oh, it’s absolutely poignant and moving....just hearing about it. Actually hearing the salute will be heartbreakingly final??

That is what funerals and their accompanying rituals are for, to give a sense of finality. I wonder if I am merely one who remembers seeing the black and white film of Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother and Princess Margaret standing at the train station wearing unrelieved black including black veils to shield them from the prying eyes of those looking to see any overt sign of grief. I alway felt deep pity for them when I saw it.

Here HM and the family are just another family grieving the loss of a family member in a time of many thousands of deaths and grief. The timing of the Duke's death may afford HM and the immediate family an unimagineable degree of privacy in their grief that would otherwise never have been possible. No high definition zoom lenses looking for a stray tear nor hungry media desperate for someone to break down completely. They wont be there! If they have to choose between camera operators and family I hope the family wins out.

 

[Eskimo]

I'm curious if HM and Charles could still pass the title to Prince Edward. There have been exceptions to some of the "rules" in the past.

They can’t. Charles is already the Duke of Edinburgh. It will have to be recreated for Edward, if* and when, it merges with the Crown.

If*: There is a vanishingly small possibility it won’t merge with the crown. If something happens to Charles, William and George before Charles is King, Louis will inherit the Dukedom of Edinburgh while Charlotte inherits the crown.

 

[Kervjacque]

I feel mostly sad for QEII , this reminds me of how Queen V deteriorated after the death of Albert and I am afraid of QEII maybe also being affected in some capacity that it physically effects her health.

I honestly did not expect this.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

https://pagesix.com/2021/04/09/will...utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=SocialFlow

Middletons attending the funeral? They included in the final 30. Interesting if true.

I highly doubt this. The people attending the funeral will be those who are close to the Queen and those who were close to Philip. It is unfortunate that the number of people is so limited but it could turn out to be a blessing in disguise. Limiting the number present to family members closer to her will make it easier for her to mourn privately.

 

[Osipi]

I feel mostly sad for QEII , this reminds me of how Queen V deteriorated after the death of Albert and I am afraid of QEII maybe also being affected in some capacity that it physically effects her health.

I honestly did not expect this.

I honestly don't see the Queen going the route that Victoria did with extreme mourning. Reason being is that I believe the Queen is a realist and with her deep and abiding faith, probably thanks God for the extraordinary long time they did have together.

With the Queen's faith too, she knows its not a separation for long and its only "until we meet again". She'll mourn privately but still do what she does unwavering as Queen.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

I honestly don't see the Queen going the route that Victoria did with extreme mourning. Reason being is that I believe the Queen is a realist and with her deep and abiding faith, probably thanks God for the extraordinary long time they did have together.

With the Queen's faith too, she knows its not a separation for long and its only "until we meet again". She'll mourn privately but still do what she does unwavering as Queen.

I agree that she won't go the route that Queen Victoria did, but Queen Elizabeth is only human and is much older than Victoria was when Prince Albert died.

The Queen's loss will have a profound effect on her. I hope she takes some time over the next few months. I tend to think that she will rededicate herself to her nation. But if she doesn't, that is okay too. She has given a lot over her life, more than most people will ever do, I think it is fine if she decides to slow down a bit - not retire- but focus more on herself and her family.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The big difference for The Queen compared to Victoria is that Philip was a very old man so no real surprise that he has died (shock yes but realistically we all knew it would be this year or next or the one after that but not much beyond that at best). With Victoria she was only 42 and expected to have Albert by her side for decades more when he was taken.

The Queen will continue after the funeral with what she has to do and Charles and William will step up to do the visits etc as lock down restrictions are lifted.

I expect that Charles will accompany the Queen to the State Opening of Parliament next month, which may very well be the first time we see her after the funeral.

 

[moby]

Apologies if this has been posted but Barack Obama's tribute to Prince Philip on his social media (Insta) is lovely: https://www.instagram.com/p/CNc5qDAgbfY/?igshid=xkrp2kmilj3c

I think it is a beautifully-written statement and somehow is also a great foil to recent criticisms about the family. They sound like the opposite of racist and snobs with his encounters with them. I also like that he is able to situate the importance of long-serving royals and their sacrifice, and even touched on US-UK relations. Makes the recent speculations about the impact of Meghan's interview on the two countries bilateral relations especially silly.

My favorite line has to be "true partnership has room for both ambition and selflessness-- all in service of something greater." I'm sure he comes from a place of gratitude to Michelle, whose support he relies on greatly.

 

[Betsypaige]

That is what funerals and their accompanying rituals are for, to give a sense of finality. I wonder if I am merely one who remembers seeing the black and white film of Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother and Princess Margaret standing at the train station wearing unrelieved black including black veils to shield them from the prying eyes of those looking to see any overt sign of grief. I alway felt deep pity for them when I saw it.

Here HM and the family are just another family grieving the loss of a family member in a time of many thousands of deaths and grief. The timing of the Duke's death may afford HM and the immediate family an unimagineable degree of privacy in their grief that would otherwise never have been possible. No high definition zoom lenses looking for a stray tear nor hungry media desperate for someone to break down completely. They wont be there! If they have to choose between camera operators and family I hope the family wins out.

That finality can be so cold...

I have seen that video/photos of the women grieving the loss of beloved Bertie. It makes me uncomfortable looking at those who are grieving - I feel like I’m intruding on their personal pain. Sometimes I think people want to see how much people hurt - it’s why you see tweets wondering why a certain person hasn’t said anything about someone who’s just died.

I do think there is something to the public being able to mourn as well, but of course the family comes first....

The big difference for The Queen compared to Victoria is that Philip was a very old man so no real surprise that he has died (shock yes but realistically we all knew it would be this year or next or the one after that but not much beyond that at best). With Victoria she was only 42 and expected to have Albert by her side for decades more when he was taken.

The Queen will continue after the funeral with what she has to do and Charles and William will step up to do the visits etc as lock down restrictions are lifted.

I expect that Charles will accompany the Queen to the State Opening of Parliament next month, which may very well be the first time we see her after the funeral.

True, and plus...so many people have lost loved ones over the past year, most much younger than Philip. I wouldn’t be surprised if HM is fragile and needs support, but she won’t go into extended mourning a la Victoria

Lovely article by Camilla Tominey, with some new details..

Yet behind the scenes, the couple's children and grandchildren were said to be keen to remain in "regular" telephone contact with the Duke as he continued his quiet convalescence, characteristically determined to avoid any "fuss".

According to multiple sources, separate "super-distanced meetings" were arranged between the Duke and his children Charles, the Princess Royal, the Duke of York and the Earl of Wessex.

Amid talk of "conversations through open windows", a royal insider confirmed: "He was able to physically see his children because they have all been vaccinated, but sadly not his grandchildren, because they have not yet received the jab."

Calls were patched through from Prince William and from Zara Tindall, who was keen to share the news of the birth of her third child, Lucas, on March 21, to "Granny and Grandpa's" landline number since, unlike his wife, the Duke did not own a mobile phone.

His nearest and dearest apparently took "huge comfort" from the fact that the pandemic meant they were in more regular contact with their "dearest Papa" than they might ordinarily have been.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1380611464281608195

 

[Tarlita]

BriarRose, I believe the last Duke of Edinburgh was Queen Victoria's son Prince Alfred. (1844 - 1900) He married The Grand Duchess Marie of Russia, daughter of Tsar Alexander II. They had 4 daughters and a son also called Alfred who died aged 25 years. They lived in Clarence House London.
Alfred later became the Duke of Saxe Coburg in1893.
One of their daughters Marie known as Missy became Queen of Romania. Her memoirs should be available online and are very interesting reading especially about her childhood.

 

[BriarRose]

BriarRose, I believe the last Duke of Edinburgh was Queen Victoria's son Prince Alfred. (1844 - 1900) He married The Grand Duchess Marie of Russia, daughter of Tsar Alexander II. They had 4 daughters and a son also called Alfred who died aged 25 years. They lived in Clarence House London.
Alfred later became the Duke of Saxe Coburg in1893.
One of their daughters Marie known as Missy became Queen of Romania. Her memoirs should be available online and are very interesting reading especially about her childhood.

Thank you kindly, I love to learn about lesser-known royals, and actually have a few drops of Romanian blood, but have never heard about Missy.

 

[Tarlita]

I recall that on the Earl of Wessex's wedding day, it was widely reported that the Queen, Charles & Edward all agreed that Charles would bestow the dukedom of Edinburgh on Edward "in due course", meaning after the dukedom reverted to the crown once Charles became King.

Of course, the agreement is not legally binding, but I can't imagine Charles won't honor his mother's wishes.

So Edward can't get the title now. When he is granted the title by (King) Charles, Edward's son will be the future Duke of Edinburgh after Edward. So it could continue on for quite some time before possibly reverting to the crown again (if ever- I can't recall the oldest peerage at the moment).

Regarding the oldest peerage, I could be wrong, it would be Duke of Kent originally Queen Victoria's father Edward. Or the Duke of Cambridge a title of Edwards brother Adolphus both sons of King George III.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The oldest peerage currently is the Earl of Arundel - secondary title of the Duke of Norfolk, created in the 1138.

Of the royal Dukedoms it would be Cornwall created in the 1337. Lancaster was created in 1351.

Of the non-royal Dukedoms it is Norfolk, also created in the 1397.

Of the current royal Dukedoms besides Cornwall and Lancaster due to their special nature:

Edinburgh -
First created in 1726 for the eldest son of the Prince of Wales - Frederick (father of George III). When Frederick died the title past to his son who held it until he became George III and the title merged with the Crown.
Second creation in 1866 for Queen Victoria's second son and became extinct on his death.
Third creation 1947 for the late Duke of Edinburgh and now held by HRH The Prince of Wales.

Cambridge -
First created in 1664 for James Stuart and became extinct upon his death as he died unmarried.
Second created 1667 for Edgar Stuart and like the earlier creation went extinct on the death of the holder.
Third creation 1706 for George of Hanover and it merged with the Crown when he succeeded as George II.
Fourth creation for Prince Adolphus in 1801 and inherited by his son but it went extinct on the death of Prince George as his marriage wasn't legal under the RMA so his three sons weren't able to inherit.
Fifth creation in 2011 for Prince William of Wales. This creation will presumably merge with the Crown at some point in the future.

Sussex -
First created in 1801 for Prince Augustus Frederick who married twice but without consent of the monarch under the RMA and so the title couldn't be inherited by his son.
Second creation 2018 for Prince Harry of Wales and should be inherited by Prince Harry's son, Archie Mountbatten-Windsor.

York -
First created in 1385 for Edmund of Langley, 4th surviving son of Edward III and goes extinct in 1461 having been inherited a number of times.
Second creation 1474 for Richard of Shrewsbury, second son of Edward IV, the younger of the Princes in the Tower and so became extinct due to the belief that he died without issue.
Third creation 1494 for Henry Tudor. It merged with the Crown when he succeeded as Henry VIII.
Fourth creation 1605 for Charles Stuart. It merged with the Crown when he succeeded as Charles I.
Fifth creation James Stuart, 2nd son of Charles I, from 1633 although the formal creation was 1644. It merged with the Crown when he succeeded as James II (and VII in Scotland).
Sixth creation 1892 for Prince George of Wales and it merged with the Crown when he succeeded as George V.
Seventh creation 1920 for The Prince Albert and it merged with the Crown in 1936 when he succeeded as George VI.
Eighth creation in 1986 for The Prince Andrew and it will probably go extinct on his death as he only has daughters and girls can't inherit titles.

Gloucester -
First created in 1385 for Thomas of Woodstock son of Edward III. Due to being regarded as a traitor the title couldn't be inherited by his son who later died without issue in 1399 two years after his father.
The second creation was in 1414 for Humphrey of Lancaster son of Henry IV and it became extinct due to his children being illegitimate.
Third creation 1461 for Richard Plantagenet, son of Richard, Duke of York and brother of Edward IV. Title merged with the Crown when he succeeded as Richard III.
Fourth creation 1659 for Henry Stuart, son of Charles I and brother of Charles II. He never married so the title went extinct on his death.
Fifth creation 1928 for The Prince Henry, 3rd son of George V. Title inherited by his second son on his death in 1974 (10th June) and there is an heir in the next two generations.

Kent -
First created as a Dukedom for The Prince Edward, 4th son of George III in 1799. Went extinct on his death as he only had one daughter (Alexandrina Victoria - better known as HM Queen Victoria).
Second creation as a Dukedom 1934 for The Prince George, 4th son of George V. It was inherited by his son on his death during WWII and that son has heirs in the next two generations as well as a brother with a son.

 

[camelot23ca]

True, and plus...so many people have lost loved ones over the past year, most much younger than Philip. I wouldn’t be surprised if HM is fragile and needs support, but she won’t go into extended mourning a la Victoria

I don’t think retreating into an extended period of mourning is in keeping with The Queen’s worldview, (and I suspect The DoE himself would find the idea ridiculous). The Queen will no doubt mourn her husband deeply, but that doesn’t mean she’ll suddenly see her responsibilities as monarch as any less important.

I picture The Queen as the sort of person who finds comfort in her routine, and in her work - if anything I think it will be the forced inactivity caused by COVID restrictions that will make this time especially hard for her.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Prince Georg of Hohenlohe-Langenburg is the son of Philip's oldest sister, Princess Margarita. Might Prince Georg come to the service?

 

[Stefan]

Prince Georg of Hohenlohe-Langenburg is the son of Philip's oldest sister, Princess Margarita. Might Prince Georg come to the service?

Not Georg but Prince Andreas who is also the only surviving child of Margarita.

 

[VictoriaB]

Prince Georg of Hohenlohe-Langenburg is the son of Philip's oldest sister, Princess Margarita. Might Prince Georg come to the service?

The problem is that funerals are limited to 30 participants. If you allow for one priest, the Queen, children, grandchildren and spouses (minus Meghan) that comes to 21. That doesn’t leave a lot of room for anyone else.

The funeral might be limited to immediate family with a memorial service at a later date for wider family and friends.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The officiating minister isn't included in that 30 as I understand it.

The problem with anyone from Germany is the same as Harry - quarantining for 10 days.

 

[VictoriaB]

The officiating minister isn't included in that 30 as I understand it.

The problem with anyone from Germany is the same as Harry - quarantining for 10 days.

You are correct - anyone “working” is not included in the thirty - so that would funeral attendants.

 

[LadyFinn]

Nicolae al Romaniei/Nicholas de Roumanie Medforth-Mills at his social media yesterday
"I am deeply saddened by the news of the passing of His Royal Highness Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, at birth Prince of Greece and Denmark, a blood relative, through my grandfather, King Mihai of Romania. My memory is extremely vivid the moment 21 years ago when, together with my parents and my sister, I was invited to lunch, by Queen Elizabeth II of Great Britain, at Windsor Castle. I think that, after the moment I lived in 1992 in Romania with my grandfather, then I realized the size of our family and its connections. I can say that I experienced the revelation of my family's roots and kinship at the top of European monarchies."
https://www.instagram.com/p/CNcqseDJA55/?utm_source=ig_embed

 

[Alison H]

Thank you kindly, I love to learn about lesser-known royals, and actually have a few drops of Romanian blood, but have never heard about Missy.

Marie of Romania (Missy) was a fascinating character!


Queen Victoria was one on her own. Many monarchs have mourned the death of a beloved spouse, but I'm struggling to think of anyone else who's completely withdrawn from public life for decades. Juana of Castile, maybe? I doubt we'll ever see that again.

 

[kathia_sophia]

I woke up to this news. Such sad news.

My heart is with the Royal Family and especially The Queen.

Prince Philip will always be an icon.

 

[fandesacs2003]

King Paul of Greece and Prince Philippe DoE were first cousins as their fathers were siblings.
This makes DoE the uncle of King Konstantin and Queen Sofia, and great uncle of Felipe. I know that on english you use once removed, but I can't use it because I don't understand it.
But this is the relationship.
As for the word cousin, I notice that RFs use this word to call their relatives, if they start call themselves, nefews or uncles and aunts, it will be too heavy.

Isn't Felipe's mother queen Sofia born a Greek princess and thus a direct cousin of prince Philip? And queen Ena of Spain, Felip's great-grandmother, was a Battenberg, too?

 

[lucien]

Don t watch!

It is really over the top with repeating the entire time and now they praise him into heaven while during his lifetime they often sabled him down.Trash rags.Sliming along to sell their trash,bucks to be made out of this...

Ofcourse people grief,ofcourse he should be commemorated,but in a dignified way.Not the over the top nonsense he would have hated during his life but has to endure now in the afterlife so to speak. So cheap

My goodness, the difference in how this is being reported...it's enough to make your head spin. While some TV presenters are almost in tears while sharing the news, others are just proving themselves to be unthinking and inconsiderate asses.

I believe it was Rhiannon Mills who seemed teary and emotional while sharing the news. However, Gayle King asked in front of the entire world if his passing was brought about by natural causes. Good heavens. Given her involvement in matters over the last couple of months she'd probably have done well to simply report the fact that a statement was issued from the palace, etc. and leave it at that and I understand that she's receiving quite the bashing on social media for her question.

It's really quite mind-boggling to see the differences in the way this is being handled by different reporters, programs, and channels.

 

[fandesacs2003]

Sorry I'm lost. BBC is now transmitting interviews of POW, Princess Royal and Prince Andrew taking about their father in the past tense, men with blac kties.
It is recorded now? Or before to be broadcast after his death. I'm deeply shocked

 

[tommy100]

It was pre-recorded as is the norm for such things. Likely it was pre-recorded at a point when they were doing an interview for something else and they changed into black and carried on to ensure there was something "ready". It may seem morbid but it is not at all uncommon for the big broadcasters here to have pre-prepared obituaries ready to go "just in case" and Philip's age will have meant his was well prepared (without meaning any disrespect).

If its any help Chris Ship ITVs Royal Correspondent has shared a clip of Anne from one such interview when it is clear she is just like her father is having no worries telling him to move on

https://twitter.com/x/status/1380777033807114240

Clearly at the time Anne felt quite comfortable to do this chat about her father, I'm sure she saw it as her duty to him.