Death of HRH the Duke of Edinburgh: 9 April 2021

[Fijiro]

Glad to see that the dukes of Gloucester and Kent, as princess Alexandra, were not unfairly forgotten, as some members suggested.

But their spouses are forgotten - from the list, I see there was no way to include them.

 

[tommy100]

It haven't read anywhere that James is waking with the coffin?

 

[Betsypaige]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1382726493504159745

The modified Land Rover that will carry Philip's coffin

I’m already emotional...???

 

[Molly2101]

It haven't read anywhere that James is waking with the coffin?

According to Twitter he is not walking with the coffin; he’s going to arrive with his mum and sister. I imagine it’s because he is quite young or it’s personal choice?

 

[Biri]

Glad to see all his grand children are attending, although bit sad that James isn't walking with the coffin. He is quite young to be fair.

Maybe he wanted to? Not to feel excluded because of the fact of being under age.
He is in fact the same age as his cousin Harry while walking behind his mother's coffin.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Retired military can wear uniforms unless the dresscode requests the guests to appear in "jacquet" (morning coat) or even just in "suit and tie", then also retired officers are expected to appear in civil wear.

We do not know the dresscode yet.

 

[Fijiro]

According to Twitter he is not walking with the coffin; he’s going to arrive with his mum and sister. I imagine it’s because he is quite young or it’s personal choice?

Maybe it was decided that James is too young. He is 13yrs old.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

Nice to see all wings of Prince Philips birth family being represented (except the Greek and Danish Royal Houses but with the 30 person limit there simply wasn’t seats for everyone)

Though i must admit i am a bit surprised that UK still does the old school order of procession with only males (apart from Princess Anne) walking behind the coffin... Even Luxembourg had abandoned that by the time of Grand Duke Jean’s funeral....

But i won’t complain anymore now.. I’m sure the service will be very moving and a fitting farewell to the longest serving Prince Consort ever

 

[Fijiro]

How about his granddaughters, why are they not also walking behind the coffin?

 

[Marc23]

I really like the fact that all official flags in Denmark will be on half-mast on saturday on command of HM queen Margrethe, because she wants to highlight the fact that Philip was a prince of Denmark, too. Even though his sisters had married into former reigning families of Germany, Philip himself never was a German, neither by citizenship nor by male-line descent. His father was a Greek and Danish prince, his mother a British princess from a family who had given up their German roots to stick with Britain. Plus the family Alice was from, a minor branch of the Hesse-family, was in their male-line descent a family from the "Middle Realm", the empire Charlemagne's son Lothar had inherited which went in-between France and Germany from Flanders and the Netherlands down to Rome. Their founder had, during Lothar's reign, kidnapped one of Lothar's daughters and married her, thus founding a family who for more than1100 years held reigning positions throughout Europe.
That's the Battenberg/Mountbatten-descent and something Philip could have been proud of, I believe. But traditionally you are going by the father's ancestry and that was Danish (though of course with German blood through the princesses who had married into the family).

I am really surprised by these kind of statements.

For centuries Denmark was ruled by German Oldenburg dynasty which only married German princesses for centuries...later Denmark was ruled and still is by collateral branch of that same Oldenburg dynasty, Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg branch, which also came from Germany in mid 19th century to rule in Denmark.

Maybe Philip was born Prince of Greece and Denmark, but he didn't have a drop of either Greek or Danish blood for centuries. Out of his 128 nearest ancestors only 3 of them were NOT ethnically German (one French, Italian and Polish) and all 3 of them came through Princess Julia von Battenberg.

Maybe Philip didn't have German citizenship, nor officially German titles, but that doesn't change the fact that based on his ancestry he was German by blood from top to toe...whether someone like it or not. Britain, Russia, Greece and Denmark were all ruled by various German dynasties which spread all over Europe and intermarried almost only with other German dynasties.

His father was Prince of Greece with no Greek blood, his grandfather was Danish prince with no Danish blood, his grandmother Grand Duchess of Russia with almost no Russian blood. Ethnically they were Germans from German dynasties and that's a fact.

I just don't know what is wrong with that, what is wrong with saying yes, he had exclusively German ancestry? What is wrong with saying facts? Is it a some sort of shame or what?

Those are facts which everybody can see in his ancestry chart and that almost everybody is trying to hide somehow, based on his birth place, citizenship, how he privately felt etc.

 

[Stefan]

But their spouses are forgotten - from the list, I see there was no way to include them.

The Duchess of Kent is i think not in the best health so that could also be a reason and of course the limted number of people who can attend.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

The Duchess of Kent is i think not in the best health so that could also be a reason and of course the limted number of people who can attend.

And no Prince Michael of Kent... I don’t know about the health of Prince Michael but as he is as closely related to Philip as his attending siblings (while the Duke of Gloucester is only distantly related) i suspect there is health issues involved...

 

[tommy100]

Or one person representing each family branch? Alexandra seemed especially close to the Queen (and Philip to an extent) so she may be there on her own merit a such and the others representing their families.

 

[Heavs]

And no Prince Michael of Kent... I don’t know about the health of Prince Michael but as he is as closely related to Philip as his attending siblings (while the Duke of Gloucester is only distantly related) i suspect there is health issues involved...

I suspect that since the Kents are already represented twice that a decision was made to cut him to include others. It has happened at many, many funerals in the last year. He might have health issues that made it a wise idea anyway but it's more likely a numbers thing. Unfortunately.

 

[Alison H]

They can only ask 30 people: it's very difficult. Everyone having to organise a funeral in these strange times is in the same position. I think Princess Alexandra's always been quite close to both the Queen and Prince Philip, and I assume they asked the Duke of Gloucester over Prince Michael so that the Gloucesters weren't left out completely.


They might just have decided they didn't want too many people walking behind the coffin, so to keep it to the children and the adult grandsons. It's an odd decision to have Peter in between William and Harry, though - you'd think it'd be in order of age, so William'd be in the middle, and it's bound to attract attention that they won't be next to each other. I hardly think they're likely to start a punch-up if Peter isn't in the middle to referee, so I'm not sure what that's about.

 

[Lysander2]

I suspect that since the Kents are already represented twice that a decision was made to cut him to include others. It has happened at many, many funerals in the last year. He might have health issues that made it a wise idea anyway but it's more likely a numbers thing. Unfortunately.

Yes it does seem a bit odd that Prince Michael isn't included when his brother and sister are, but I appreciate it's difficult with the limit on numbers. I guess the Dukes of Kent and Gloucester are there as heads of their families, and maybe Princess Alexandra is there as the only surviving bridesmaid from Philip and Elizabeth's wedding, apart from Lady Pamela Mountbatten (Hicks) whom we know isn't coming

(Though I have just realised Michael was also in attendance at the Queen's wedding.......as a pageboy......)

 

[JR76]

I am really surprised by these kind of statements.

For centuries Denmark was ruled by German Oldenburg dynasty which only married German princesses for centuries...later Denmark was ruled and still is by collateral branch of that same Oldenburg dynasty, Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg branch, which also came from Germany in mid 19th century to rule in Denmark.

Maybe Philip was born Prince of Greece and Denmark, but he didn't have a drop of either Greek or Danish blood for centuries. Out of his 128 nearest ancestors only 3 of them were NOT ethnically German (one French, Italian and Polish) and all 3 of them came through Princess Julia von Battenberg.

Maybe Philip didn't have German citizenship, nor officially German titles, but that doesn't change the fact that based on his ancestry he was German by blood from top to toe...whether someone like it or not. Britain, Russia, Greece and Denmark were all ruled by various German dynasties which spread all over Europe and intermarried almost only with other German dynasties.

His father was Prince of Greece with no Greek blood, his grandfather was Danish prince with no Danish blood, his grandmother Grand Duchess of Russia with almost no Russian blood. Ethnically they were Germans from German dynasties and that's a fact.

I just don't know what is wrong with that, what is wrong with saying yes, he had exclusively German ancestry? What is wrong with saying facts? Is it a some sort of shame or what?

Those are facts which everybody can see in his ancestry chart and that almost everybody is trying to hide somehow, based on his birth place, citizenship, how he privately felt etc.

Nobody is trying to hide anything. Even if they did these things get brought up by all and sundry as soon as anyone, the royals themselves included, dares to put any label on a Protestant royal that's other than German. To say that the Oldenburgs are exclusively German ignores the fact that they've been on the Danish throne for 600 years and also ignores the very complex ethnic and linguistic composition of the pre-1848 Danish realm where ethnicity, language spoken and national identity rarely went hand in hand. Philip himself identified as Danish (or Scandinavian) and that's good enough for me.

 

[W.Y.CII]

It's an odd decision to have Peter in between William and Harry, though - you'd think it'd be in order of age, so William'd be in the middle, and it's bound to attract attention that they won't be next to each other. I hardly think they're likely to start a punch-up if Peter isn't in the middle to referee, so I'm not sure what that's about.

It is actually a logical decision, as normally person who is more important/higher in ranking will be placed at middle. In this case it ranks by age, so the higher ranking (Peter) will be in middle, while the younger (William and Harry) will be in Peter's each side. (Yes the media is going to fuss about it but it's how thing normally work.)

 

[Betsypaige]

It is actually a logical decision, as normally person who is more important/higher in ranking will be placed at middle. In this case it ranks by age, so the higher ranking (Peter) will be in middle, while the younger (William and Harry) will be in Peter's each side. (Yes the media is going to fuss about it but it's how thing normally work.)

How is Peter higher ranking than William?

 

[Erin9]

How is Peter higher ranking than William?

By age- since Peter is older. If the order is somehow age related and the middle person is considered highest ranking- Peter is in the middle as the oldest. And that’s why William and Harry are separated.

Nevertheless- people will talk about William and Harry not standing together under the known circumstances.

 

[W.Y.CII]

How is Peter higher ranking than William?

You skipped the most important part:

It is actually a logical decision, as normally person who is more important/higher in ranking will be placed at middle. In this case it ranks by age, so the higher ranking (Peter) will be in middle, while the younger (William and Harry) will be in Peter's each side. (Yes the media is going to fuss about it but it's how thing normally work.)

Isn't he the eldest grandson of DoE?

 

[Heavs]

By age- since Peter is older. If the order is somehow age related and the middle person is considered highest ranking- Peter is in the middle as the oldest. And that’s why William and Harry are separated.

Nevertheless- people will talk about William and Harry not standing together under the known circumstances.

They'd talk if they were standing together as well. It's unavoidable right now unfortunately.

 

[Lemon Lyman]

I think Peter is in the middle because he is the eldest. There is also something in the Daily Mail about them ending up walking in twos once they arrive at the chapel so William will move ahead at some point (to be joined by Catherine?).

I’m surprised Prince Michael of Kent not being there. I thought maybe he would have been there over Daniel Chatto given all the other cousins are there.

 

[Alison H]

Just on a different note, we're coming to the end of the era in which consorts of reigning monarchs were themselves born royal. That's something that goes back over 1,000 years.

 

[Betsypaige]

By age- since Peter is older. If the order is somehow age related and the middle person is considered highest ranking- Peter is in the middle as the oldest. And that’s why William and Harry are separated.

Nevertheless- people will talk about William and Harry not standing together under the known circumstances.

Let’s say this is about age...is this an example of “never explain” ? Regardless, I can envision all the broadcasts, especially in America where the media now loathes the BRF, is uninformed and gossipy, will be about W and H.

“We’re not going to be drawn into those perceptions of drama or anything like that,’’ a palace spokesman said while speaking on condition of anonymity in line with policy. “This is a funeral and the arrangements have been agreed and they represent Her Majesty’s wishes.”

 

[Hans-Rickard]

I suspect that since the Kents are already represented twice that a decision was made to cut him to include others. It has happened at many, many funerals in the last year. He might have health issues that made it a wise idea anyway but it's more likely a numbers thing. Unfortunately.

In my ears, it would have been very logic to cut a spouse off the list if Prince Michael really wanted to attend... He is closely related through Princess Marina and was even a page-boy at the wedding in 1947

We know that Princess Michael caught Covid-19 last year and was quite badly affected so perhaps it affected him too...

Also surprised to see no Lady Pamela Hicks among the names, but perhaps she has been adviced to not attend for health reasons... She is 91 after all

 

[Somebody]

New release of info (at 5pm as I predicted lol) - all from Rebeca English twitter as first I could find


*The Queen, accompanied by a lady in waiting, will wear a mask throughout proceedings and follow her husband’s funeral procession in her official Bentley.

*Palace officials confirm the Mail’s story today that senior royals will not wear uniform. Instead they will be morning/day dress with medals.

*William & Harry will not walk shoulder to shoulder when they join senior royals for the funeral procession. Cousin Peter Philips will be in between them.

From telegraph

There will be no congregational singing during the Duke of Edinburgh’s funeral.
A small choir of 4, comprising 3 lay clarks from the St George’s Chapel choir and a soprano, who is a member of the St George’s community, will perform each piece of music

Express has guest list
https://www.express.co.uk/news/roya...who-is-going-to-Duke-of-Edinburgh-funeral-evg

The full list of guests at Prince Philip’s funeral is as follows:

The Queen
The Prince of Wales
The Duchess of Cornwall
The Duke of Cambridge
The Duchess of Cambridge
The Duke of Sussex
The Duke of York
Princess Beatrice
Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi
Princess Eugenie
Jack Brooksbank
The Earl of Wessex
The Countess of Wessex
Lady Louise Windsor
Viscount Severn
The Princess Royal
Vice Admiral Sir Timothy Laurence
Peter Phillips
Zara Phillips
Mike Tindall
Earl of Snowdon
Lady Sarah Chatto
Daniel Chatto
Duke of Gloucester
Duke of Kent
Princess Alexandra
Bernhard, Hereditary Prince of Baden
Prince Donatus, Landgrave of Hesse
Prince Philipp of Hohenlohe-Langenburg
The Countess Mountbatten of Burma

I assume Lady Pamela Hicks was not healthy enough to be included. The private secretary not included either although it was previously announced that he would join the family in St George's Chapel. Maybe he will be considered to be 'working' at the funeral and therefore, doesn't need to be counted? In this way both The Duke of Gloucester and Princess Alexandra are able to attend.

And it seems they've decided that working from old to young for the grandchildren is a way to separate William and Harry (it makes some sense to just go by age; but at the queen mother's funeral for William and Harry they went by precedence (although Anne was given precedence over her younger brothers) with William and Harry in the middle and David and Peter on the outside. So, it seems it was also done to avoid them walking next to each other. Just like the decision to wear morning coats instead of uniforms is made to avoid awkwardness.

I expect the first line to be:
Andrew (3) - Charles (1) - Anne (2) - Edward (4)
And second line:
Harry (3) - Peter (1) - William (2) - James (4)

If except for Anne (of course she might chose not to walk this time; than it will be the three brothers with Charles in the middle; or Timothy added to the mix on the side), only the men will walk; I am not sure with which group they would continue: spouses? British cousins? German cousins? Yet, this might be how each line would look like:
Jack (3) - Timothy (1) - Mike (2) - Edoardo (4) [based on length of marriage]
David (Snowdon; 3) - Richard (Gloucester; 1) - Edward (Kent; 2) - Daniel (4) [based on precedence]
Bernhard (3) - Philipp (1) - Donatus (2) [based on length as head of the family]

 

[sophie25]

I think Peter is in the middle because he is the eldest. There is also something in the Daily Mail about them ending up walking in twos once they arrive at the chapel so William will move ahead at some point (to be joined by Catherine?).

I’m surprised Prince Michael of Kent not being there. I thought maybe he would have been there over Daniel Chatto given all the other cousins are there.

I'm very surprised indeed about Prince Michael as he was a pageboy at the Queen's wedding and it does seem a little unkind to ask his brother and sister and not him. I think it would have been nicer if the Duke of Kent alone had represented their branch of the family or to have left the Duke out and had PM and PA there as they had both been attendants at the wedding.

 

[Frelinghighness]

Okay, I was not aware of that. It seems in most places it still people in their 50s and 60s. Where I live those in their 30s who are not at high risk can not get it yet.

My son in California, younger than Harry got a vaccine a month ago. They are prioritizing by type of work you do, not just age. Teachers in Massachusetts and child care workers able to be vaccinated March 11 for example. Some states are doing it strictly by age, many other aren’t

 

[Lysander2]

In my ears, it would have been very logic to cut a spouse off the list if Prince Michael really wanted to attend... He is closely related through Princess Marina and was even a page-boy at the wedding in 1947

We know that Princess Michael caught Covid-19 last year and was quite badly affected so perhaps it affected him too...

Also surprised to see no Lady Pamela Hicks among the names, but perhaps she has been adviced to not attend for health reasons... She is 91 after all

Yes I had Lady Pamela on my list of possibles, but as you say she is 91 and maybe she'd have needed to be accompanied by one of her children, which would have meant someone else having to be struck from the 30.....