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  #581  
Old 04-10-2021, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
This was a lovely article. Iím glad they were able to grow closer.

Itís long been interesting to me that as different as their temperaments were, Charles and Philip had a lot of similar interests: the environment, painting, youth, both forward thinkers, etc. I found think that would have been helpful. They were talking points that werenít emotional landlines.
I think they were probably alike in many ways but were very dissimilar in one crucial way, in that Charles could be wishy washy and also somewhat of a whiner, whereas his father was the exact opposite.

I could see Philip looking at Charles, who had two loving parents in a stable marriage, a sister close in age to grow up with, no financial worries, never had to wonder which relative would take him in next and who was at the centre of a permanent and historic institution from the day he was born - and then watching him make mistake after mistake in his marriage, (and at one point listening to him whine about how his parents were never there for him) - and just shaking his head in frustration.

The part of the article about Philip writing Charles to suggest he make a decision about Diana is telling, if true. Philip knew that Charles could mess around for as long as he wanted and come out unscathed, whereas Dianaís reputation could be much more easily damaged. Philip had a clear sense of right and wrong and he also knew what it was like to have an insecure position in life in a way that Charles most certainly didnít. Iím not surprised that the nuances in his fatherís letter may have been lost on Charles.
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  #582  
Old 04-11-2021, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
I think they were probably alike in many ways but were very dissimilar in one crucial way, in that Charles could be wishy washy and also somewhat of a whiner, whereas his father was the exact opposite.



I could see Philip looking at Charles, who had two loving parents in a stable marriage, a sister close in age to grow up with, no financial worries, never had to wonder which relative would take him in next and who was at the centre of a permanent and historic institution from the day he was born - and then watching him make mistake after mistake in his marriage, (and at one point listening to him whine about how his parents were never there for him) - and just shaking his head in frustration.



The part of the article about Philip writing Charles to suggest he make a decision about Diana is telling, if true. Philip knew that Charles could mess around for as long as he wanted and come out unscathed, whereas Dianaís reputation could be much more easily damaged. Philip had a clear sense of right and wrong and he also knew what it was like to have an insecure position in life in a way that Charles most certainly didnít. Iím not surprised that the nuances in his fatherís letter may have been lost on Charles.


Agreed. Iíve thought the same thing- that Philip coming from such an insecure background could easily have looked at Charles and just shook his head. Especially about parents not being there for him. Look at Philipís parents. (And Iím not criticizing Philipís parents. They went through a lot. But I thought it notable that I donít think Philip ever publicly criticized them.)

Iíd never really thought about the insecurity of Dianaís position, but I can see that as something that Philip would have appreciated in a way Charles wouldnít.

Interesting really: Philip had an unstable family and married a woman from a close, stable family. William did the same thing.
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  #583  
Old 04-11-2021, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Sunnystar View Post
Yes, after Elizabeth passes, they will both be interred in the George VI Memorial Chapel.

Is there enough space. At the time of Margaret' s funeral it was said she was cremated because there would have not been enough space in the Crypt there
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  #584  
Old 04-11-2021, 01:46 AM
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I understood there is "always" space for Sovereigns and their consorts. Other members of the royal family are usually buried at Frogmore.

It was Princess Margaret's wish to be interred with her father and that meant she had to be cremated.

Prince Philip is a consort and there always was space for him.
  #585  
Old 04-11-2021, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
Is there enough space. At the time of Margaret' s funeral it was said she was cremated because there would have not been enough space in the Crypt there
When the chapel was finished in 1969 it was said that there was enough room in there for six coffins - George VI and the Queen Mum, Elizabeth and Philip and Charles and his future consort.

When Margaret died she wanted to be buried with her parents but they didn't want her to take up the space of a coffin as that would mean that the plans had to change and so she was cremated so her urn could go with her parents.

I know Charles wasn't married at the time but I suspect they were realistic enough to think that he probably would remarry at some time in the future and therefore wanted to leave the original plans in place.
  #586  
Old 04-11-2021, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
When the chapel was finished in 1969 it was said that there was enough room in there for six coffins - George VI and the Queen Mum, Elizabeth and Philip and Charles and his future consort.

When Margaret died she wanted to be buried with her parents but they didn't want her to take up the space of a coffin as that would mean that the plans had to change and so she was cremated so her urn could go with her parents.

I know Charles wasn't married at the time but I suspect they were realistic enough to think that he probably would remarry at some time in the future and therefore wanted to leave the original plans in place.

Thanks. The chapel certainly doesn't look as there is place for 6 coffins as it is so tony but probably the Crypt is bigger then one assumes.
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  #587  
Old 04-11-2021, 02:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
I think they were probably alike in many ways but were very dissimilar in one crucial way, in that Charles could be wishy washy and also somewhat of a whiner, whereas his father was the exact opposite.

I could see Philip looking at Charles, who had two loving parents in a stable marriage, a sister close in age to grow up with, no financial worries, never had to wonder which relative would take him in next and who was at the centre of a permanent and historic institution from the day he was born - and then watching him make mistake after mistake in his marriage, (and at one point listening to him whine about how his parents were never there for him) - and just shaking his head in frustration.

The part of the article about Philip writing Charles to suggest he make a decision about Diana is telling, if true. Philip knew that Charles could mess around for as long as he wanted and come out unscathed, whereas Dianaís reputation could be much more easily damaged. Philip had a clear sense of right and wrong and he also knew what it was like to have an insecure position in life in a way that Charles most certainly didnít. Iím not surprised that the nuances in his fatherís letter may have been lost on Charles.
Yeah, there was a documentary which said that Charles misinterpreted that letter to be an ultimatum on marrying her (Diana).

What's even more interesting is that Charles seems to have given a similar advice regarding Catherine to William, and he broke up with her at that time. Thank heavens he got back with her later on though.
  #588  
Old 04-11-2021, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by American Observer7 View Post
It is a VERY sad thing despite his age. But no one in that family will cry or show any kind of emotion during the funeral. I doubt they express emotion among themselves to be perfectly honest. It is not healthy and it is strange.

Is the lack of emotion a British cultural thing? I am only curious.
The "stiff upper lip"? It's actually a Greek idea, going back to the Spartans! British public schools in the 19th century were very into Spartan ideas - and, in the 20th century, Gordonstoun probably epitomised that! But look at Queen Victoria and her elaborate mourning. I think it became a general thing during the First World War, when, sadly, there were so many deaths that people just had to carry on when they were grieving, or else the country and the war effort would have collapsed. But it's just a bit of a stereotype, like the idea that Italians are all very emotional or Swiss people are all super-organised or Australians are all really laid back and casual - there's some truth to it, but no-one's going to be shocked if someone cries at a funeral.
  #589  
Old 04-11-2021, 05:02 AM
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We saw Sophie and Charles express emotion publicly yesterday and no doubt have done among themselves. The things we've heard and seen don't point to a lack of emotion about this in the family. Some will "keep it together" at the televised funeral and others may not.

Speaking of my own family, my uncle who epitomised "stiff upper lip" thinking completely broke down at his father's funeral in a way that shocked me - although it probably shouldn't have, so you never know what will happen.
  #590  
Old 04-11-2021, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
We saw Sophie and Charles express emotion publicly yesterday and no doubt have done among themselves. The things we've heard and seen don't point to a lack of emotion about this in the family. Some will "keep it together" at the televised funeral and others may not.

Speaking of my own family, my uncle who epitomised "stiff upper lip" thinking completely broke down at his father's funeral in a way that shocked me - although it probably shouldn't have, so you never know what will happen.
Agree. The Queen has publically shed tears. So much of what is said about the Royal Family is exaggeration. They're humans at the end of the day.
N even if they do not show emotion during the funeral or anywhere else, that's their prerogative. I'm absolutely uncomfortable with showing my emotions, and it works fine for me. People should be allowed to grieve the way they want to, and should not be judged for that.
  #591  
Old 04-11-2021, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
I think they were probably alike in many ways but were very dissimilar in one crucial way, in that Charles could be wishy washy and also somewhat of a whiner, whereas his father was the exact opposite.

I could see Philip looking at Charles, who had two loving parents in a stable marriage, a sister close in age to grow up with, no financial worries, never had to wonder which relative would take him in next and who was at the centre of a permanent and historic institution from the day he was born - and then watching him make mistake after mistake in his marriage, (and at one point listening to him whine about how his parents were never there for him) - and just shaking his head in frustration.

The part of the article about Philip writing Charles to suggest he make a decision about Diana is telling, if true. Philip knew that Charles could mess around for as long as he wanted and come out unscathed, whereas Dianaís reputation could be much more easily damaged. Philip had a clear sense of right and wrong and he also knew what it was like to have an insecure position in life in a way that Charles most certainly didnít. Iím not surprised that the nuances in his fatherís letter may have been lost on Charles.
I donít think itís fair to call Charles wishy washy just because he was softer and gentler than his father. I was just saying elsewhere today that I understand Philip now better than I did before, having thought about his tough childhood. I suspect that he got through it by being tough, by having a ďjust do itĒ attitude, etc. Therefore he probably assumed thatís the only way to be a man.

I wish Charles hadnít publicly spoken (via his biography) about his parents not being there, but nonetheless, those were his feelings...and, I donít think it can be disputed they werenít there as much as heíd have liked. He very likely remembers his mother holding out her hand for a handshake upon return from that trip (which thereís video). I DO think itís likely that, because of Charlesí resentment (IMO, which I understand), he probably did (at the time Dimbelbyís book came out and also for much of his life) forget all the good times he had with his parents, how much they loved him. I remember him watching those home movies (it was for a special, I forget which one) and getting a kick out of them.

Iíve always taken Philipís advice about Diana it to mean ďjust make a decision one way or the otherď, as opposed to him telling Charles to marry her, but Charles by then was likely not only intimidated by his father but inclined to think the worst.

Anyway, the important thing is that they WERE able to move past their issues and have a good relationship, which is what matters to me now.
  #592  
Old 04-11-2021, 06:11 AM
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For those who may be interested this is how the news was broken on various UK channels (not my video)

  #593  
Old 04-11-2021, 06:18 AM
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A Service of Remembrance was held for the Duke of Edinburgh at Canterbury Cathedral this morning.

The Archbishop of Canterbury presided over the Service

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-56706408

There was also a Service of Morning Prayer and thanksgiving for the Life of HRH The Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh from Westminster Abbey earlier.
https://www.westminster-abbey.org/ab...from-the-abbey
  #594  
Old 04-11-2021, 06:22 AM
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Charles said Papa ..
  #595  
Old 04-11-2021, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownPrincessJava View Post
Knowing the late DoE, he'd probably think 30 people is still too many....
yes - he did once suggest that Anne and Edward take him out in a dingy and dump him in the Atlantic while playing Duke Ellington records.
  #596  
Old 04-11-2021, 06:39 AM
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  #597  
Old 04-11-2021, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Iain View Post
Camilla is officially the second lady of the land so it would make sense for her to accompany the Queen.
Plus she doesnt have children that might need her in that moment.
  #598  
Old 04-11-2021, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire View Post
yes - he did once suggest that Anne and Edward take him out in a dingy and dump him in the Atlantic while playing Duke Ellington records.
im sure he woudl want his immediate family at his funeral to say goodbye...
  #599  
Old 04-11-2021, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
For those who may be interested this is how the news was broken on various UK channels (not my video)

Thank you for posting this! The BBC anchor was so emotional....��������

Yukari, thanks for posting those videos...I find them so moving
  #600  
Old 04-11-2021, 07:52 AM
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OT: One of my favourite historical places in Sofia is the Battenberg Mausoleum (the Memorial Tomb of Alexander I of Battenberg). He was the first Head of State of modern Bulgaria. It's a beautiful, if understated place. It's dignified without intruding on the passers-by. I think I'll go there on the day of the funeral and give Prince Philip some thought. (Alexander of Battenberg was his grandfather's brother and a historical figure of great, recently rediscovered importance in our modern history.)
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