Infanta Cristina's Ducal Title Revoked; June 2015


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
^^^^^ how can you now use they "all equal" defence when you yourself in many posts on TRF have made clear that you consider royals not equal with commoners, and always making a distinct differentiation between the two...
 
Actually he holds the style of Excellency as a Grandee of Spain and as holder of Grand Collar of Merit in Sports.
As the Duke of Parma he also held the same style as a courtesy.
 
[she is not convicted yet, though with such actions the king obviously does convict his sister before the judge does. I suppose it puts the throne in a more comfortable position for now and it may be a pragmatic and sensible move, but at what price? I think highly of the new king and queen, but this action before any guilt is legally proven is not very edifying IMHO though I am sure it will be a popular move. ]quote Marengo

I agree that Felipe is doing what he feels is necessary to clean house. He is in an unenviable position, but he is scoring points with the press and the public and that is what's important-for now. His integrity is unquestioned, his personal popularity higher than ever. Mission accomplished.

But I am convinced that the monarchy in Spain is doomed anyway. Whether he sticks it to his sister or not the whole house of cards will fall within the next 25 years if not sooner.

So in the end, what are the Borbons left with? A Spanish Republic and an irreparably damaged family.:sad:

By throwing his sister(prematurely I believe) to the wolves all Felipe is doing is buying the Crown a little more time. In the end, years from now, I hope he still believes it was worth it.
 
Last edited:
[she is not convicted yet, though with such actions the king obviously does convict his sister before the judge does. I suppose it puts the throne in a more comfortable position for now and it may be a pragmatic and sensible move, but at what price? I think highly of the new king and queen, but this action before any guilt is legally proven is not very edifying IMHO though I am sure it will be a popular move. ]quote Marengo

I agree that Felipe is doing what he feels is necessary to clean house. He is in an unenviable position, but he is scoring points with the press and the public and that is what's important-for now. His integrity is unquestioned, his personal popularity higher than ever. Mission accomplished.

But I am convinced that the monarchy in Spain is doomed anyway. Whether he sticks it to his sister or not the whole house of cards will fall within the next 25 years if not sooner.

So in the end, what are the Borbons left with? A Spanish Republic and an irreparably damaged family.:sad:

By throwing his sister(prematurely I believe) to the wolves all Felipe is doing is buying the Crown a little more time. In the end, years from now, I hope he still believes it was worth it.


Why do you say the monarchy in Spain is doomed anyway ? None of the two main political parties in Spain (PP and PSOE) support abolishing the monarchy. I don't see any realistic chance of Spain becoming a republic until one of them (most likely the Socialists) change their stance on the issue.
 
^^^^^ how can you now use they "all equal" defence when you yourself in many posts on TRF have made clear that you consider royals not equal with commoners, and always making a distinct differentiation between the two...

There is a clear difference between royals and commoners when we look to descendance. But when someone claims that anyone is equal for law, this case is the best proof that Infanta Doña Cristina is not treated equal at all. King Felipe would not revoke any noble title from a Spaniard without any base like "Justice has spoken, Justice must be done". None of all this, in the case of Doña Cristina. Just a weak howling with the woolfs, while Prime Minister Rajoy is up into his neck in the sh*t with his Partido Popular (as are any other political parties, by the way). Well, well... I am impressed... *not*.

:bang:
 
I wonder if King Felipe will discontinue the tradition of bestowing royal dukedoms upon marriage?
 
I wonder if King Felipe will discontinue the tradition of bestowing royal dukedoms upon marriage?

There is no any reason for that. Infanta Doña Beatriz, Infanta Doña Pilar, Infanta Doña Margarita, Infanta Doña Elena, all of them have been fine royals. Why "punish" Infanta Doña Leonor and Infanta Doña Sofía with this ill-thought, clumsy and pre-eliminary "action" by their father?
 
It would be smart to give up your sucession rights and your H.R.H Infanta title on your own free will.
Like f.e. ministers resign when there is no confidence in their performance
As there is clearly a lack of confidence she should resign, otherwise there will always be that feeling of doubt aound her.

If she would really have been innocent it would have been known already a long time ago.
 
Last edited:
It would be smart to give up your sucession rights and your H.R.H Infanta title on your own free will.
Like f.e. ministers resign when there is no confidence in their performance

She can not give up her title as this can only be done by a special Act which has to pass Parliament. And... why should she? I would recommend: wait until Justice has spoken. It is all so premature.
 
It is all so premature.

His Majesty's FIRST duty is to protect [and thus preserve] the reputation of the throne. That is what [by this act] he IS doing.
 
King Felipe come across as subservient and weak-minded. Chances of Infanta Christina and her children to ascend the throne are non-existent.
It is short-sighted on King Felipe's part and his advisors' part to placate crowds.
 
Last edited:
And is Justice speak and say innocent then what? Returns in Spain represented the King in various events and it's all good?

That's what I'd like to know as well. Then what?:ermm:
 
Re:Infanta Cristina

For what would she be blamed? I hope she isn't still victimized as she actually seems like a strong lady to me.

***
I see the 'innocent until proven guilty' is not a sentiment shared by many, including the court and the king. Nobody has been convicted yet so it seems a bit premature. Though this action shows that the royal court has not a lot of faith in what will happen next. Perhaps rightly so.

I suppose it makes the court look pro-active. That it was the king withdrawing the title distances him even further from the mess, which is a sensible harm-reduction policy. If Cristina would have given up the title herself the sentiment would most likely be 'why didn't she give up her HRH too?' While now she seems to be punished and humiliated which may apease some of the Spanish public for now.
I can't help but feel sorry for the family. They must have suffered a lot these last years and the list of humiliations is not over yet. Of course it is self-inlicted, but still... I am sure that many in Spain and elsewhere will be gloating over this but I don't think it wise to beat somebody who is already down.
I agree with you.I feel a lot for that Family.Besides, I don´t understand why this case has taken so long to be decided?It seems like it´s been dragged down on and on and on forever.If they are guilty as they say, they should have had a decision a long time ago.And I thought Brazilian law was slow!:bang:
 
Maybe, just maybe - the King knows more about the background to this case than the general public. Maybe, he isn't expecting the Infanta Cristina to be found innocent.
 
Maybe, just maybe - the King knows more about the background to this case than the general public. Maybe, he isn't expecting the Infanta Cristina to be found innocent.

That is entirely possible. I can't imagine that the attorneys for the SRF have not had some sort of briefing, or perhaps have been permitted to look at the evidence themselves.
 
Okay. Give me your drive license. Now. You have not been found guilty, you have not been convicted. But give me your drive license. Now.

Exactly the same principle. What will happen when the Court of Justice decides that there is no sufficient ground for the claims laid down on the Infanta? Will she be restored then? It is all so premature and shows Don Felipe as a man of little principle.

So to see the basic principle Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat (the burden of proof is on he who declares, not on he who denies), is not in good hands with the King. He has already declared his sister guilty.

:ermm::sad::ohmy:


It's not the same thing at all. This action was taken after years of investigation and years of legal wrangling. There is every indication that the accusations are not empty.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
There is a clear difference between royals and commoners when we look to descendance. But when someone claims that anyone is equal for law, this case is the best proof that Infanta Doña Cristina is not treated equal at all. King Felipe would not revoke any noble title from a Spaniard without any base like "Justice has spoken, Justice must be done". None of all this, in the case of Doña Cristina. Just a weak howling with the woolfs, while Prime Minister Rajoy is up into his neck in the sh*t with his Partido Popular (as are any other political parties, by the way). Well, well... I am impressed... *not*.

:bang:


First, please let me borrow your knife because clearly it is sharp enough to split any hair.

Second, she is being treated the same as anyone else. You think a businessperson, teacher, politician, or anything else caught up in these allegations and this amount of evidence gets to keep their JOB until it's settled? No! It's ridiculous! People will stand by you unless a preponderance of evidence goes against you. Then, you deal with the consequences of what your actions have been.
 
First, please let me borrow your knife because clearly it is sharp enough to split any hair.

Second, she is being treated the same as anyone else. You think a businessperson, teacher, politician, or anything else caught up in these allegations and this amount of evidence gets to keep their JOB until it's settled? No! It's ridiculous! People will stand by you unless a preponderance of evidence goes against you. Then, you deal with the consequences of what your actions have been.

This is why I'm surprised at so many people's responses - people have to deal with the consequences of their actions, and those consequences don't all wait until a jury returns a verdict (or whatever the legal process is). just for the sake of using an ordinary person as an example, when I was in school, I had a teacher who was accused of inappropriate behavior with students. When the school had legitimate evidence of this, they fired him on the spot. From there, though, the legal process took a while - it was six years before his criminal case was concluded (he's in jail these days). Should he have been allowed to keep his job for those six years just because of the legal presumption of innocence? Of course not. Just as, like you said, business people, politicians and others are often fired or forced to resign from their jobs, etc., if there is strong evidence of serious wrongdoing. I think people are getting the wrong idea of the context of the principle of being innocent until proven guilty. It applies to the justice system, but it doesn't stand in the way of other consequences for inappropriate behavior.
 
King Felipe come across as subservient and weak-minded. Chances of Infanta Christina and her children to ascend the throne are non-existent.
It is short-sighted on King Felipe's part and his advisors' part to placate crowds.


For the record, that was exactly the advice that Nicholas II of Russia received: "Stand strong. Don't placate the crowds." (Those crowds were, of course, his own people). He took that advice. You know how that story ended.

I don't think that King Felipe is at risk of being shot, but there is no doubt that the monarchy in Spain has been materially damaged because of the evidence that has surfaced in the Nóos case, including that the judge found sufficient cause to bring the Infanta Cristina to trial. Besides, it seems that she and Mr. Urdangarín have not helped their case by engaging in a tug-of-war with the Royal Household... even refusing initially to make a statement to clarify that the Royal Family was not involved in their business dealings! They certainly don't seem to have the Crown's interests at heart. I wonder if Duc_et_Pair is mindful of that.

I feel a measure of compassion for the Infanta Cristina and especially for her children. At the very same time, with regard the title of Duchess of Palma: It was granted by gift of the King, to be used at his pleasure. He or his successor can withdraw it for any reason, but certainly damage to the monarchy seems like a very good one.

In any case I would recommend reading the earlier posts of the Spanish contributors to this thread, who are of course the best informed amongst us on this subject.
 
Last edited:
Two very privileged people seem to have appeared to have taken a lot of money illegally from Spanish taxpayers at a time of suffering for the people of Spain. Lots of evidence has been presented that indicate these two people do not deserve an elevated position in Spanish society.

The king's actions to acknowledge that may be what saves the monarchy for his own heirs.




Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community mobile app
 
Well having read the posts following my query I can understand where King Felipe is coming from. There seems an almost total consensus that Christina's husband is guilty and differing views about Christina's guilt.

Also, it is clear that the scandal has materially damaged the Monarchy of Spain and that the people of Spain have been looking for a sign of regret or compassion from Christa. That has not happened. Had she said "I regret that this has happened and feel for the people affected by it. However, I did not do this", I get the feeling that the worst people would have thought of her was that she supports an unworthy husband. Instead, I think perhaps they see her silence as an "entitled", 'let them eat cake" arrogance.

I understand that the feelings about this case, and Christina in particular, have been very strong and date from well before the abdication of King JC, meaning that once again he shirked his duty to Spain and left Felipe to do the dirty work.

I believe that perception is actually more important than reality. How we see someone depends on what we know, perceive and, if the avalanche of adverse media coverage is anything to go on, I believe that Filipe has acted with honour by putting it off as long as he did. Wikipedia is already reading that Christina herself put this in motion. There are even a references to a facsimile of a handwritten note which, because it was handwritten I cannot translate. Whether she did or not I would not know

What Felipe has done is "cut off" Inaki from the SRF, Christina still remains HRH Infanta Dona Christina of Spain and a member of the royal family.
 
It would have been the first move of the new left government of Palma to strip the Infanta of the title or rooting for it, so Felipe decided to get there first. He doesnt need any more polemic on his first anniversay as King.

Queen Sofia made her way to Geneva to spend time with Cristina and her family, Cristina will be 50 this weekend
http://www.elmundo.es/loc/2015/06/12/557b3b7ce2704ebe288b4591.html
 
How is Felipe a weakling here? There had to be consequences and it seems the people in Mallorca didn't wanted to be associated with I&C anymore. Some interpret this as if Felipe kicked her out on the streets with no penny....
 
Cristina's letter to Felipe, now she wants to prove 'I was first'
Je Maintiendrai

Majesty,
With occassion of my wedding to D. Iñaki Urdangarín, Our Father, H.M. the King Don Juan Carlos I, gave me the entitlement of the Duchy of Palma. In its moment, for what Palma represented for us, the title made me feel joyful and I served up to it with the most fidelity and love. Today, yet, Palma, represents for my husband and me a reference of strong and important memories, that our children share with us. Therefore when, in the latest times, as consecuences of the unbased accusations towards me in behalf of the Sindicato Manos Limpias, I got to know that they questioned the continuity of the title of Duchess of Palma, I lived this situation with disgust and discomfort. In that time, I didn’t want to reply to those initiatives because I thought that, if I did, I could be offending those who did not share them and that could interprete an inmediate answer in my behalf, as a scorn to the City that we so love and admire. However, today, after a long and painful reflexion, I have decided that I must manifest to H.M. my will of renounce to the title of Duchess of Palma, avoiding then any problems that could take place in the City of Palma. I will keep carrying this City in my heart; I will always feel thankful for the attention and cherish that they have manifested towards my family, but I want to step aside from any debate related to the title that could offend the mallorquina (from Mallorca) society.
When it comes effective, then, my renounce to the title of Duchess of Palma, I beg to H.M. that he adopts the necessary measures for its rightful formalization.
With affect and love,
Cristina, Infanta of Spain.
https://41.media.tumblr.com/4f0ef4f0f3a93b2a2456d49ba13cabc6/tumblr_npv05hSdfP1req0rco1_1280.jpg
https://41.media.tumblr.com/2d3dc0660036dcd3c3509c59a6711aeb/tumblr_npv05hSdfP1req0rco2_1280.jpg
https://36.media.tumblr.com/140e55bbed2aa1da92b0bea537e40e47/tumblr_npv05hSdfP1req0rco3_1280.jpg
https://40.media.tumblr.com/061d0e6da0ee32d6a9d342684ba8699c/tumblr_npv05hSdfP1req0rco4_1280.jpg
 
This woman is really ridiculous, when people thought that she could not fall down, she tries to go against her brother the King with this letter. Her selfishness and blindness really are amazing.

Now she says she renounces the only title that is easily removed, but she does not give up dynastic rights, which the country asks her to resign, and whose resignation is her personal decision. In addition, at no point in the letter there is an apology or an acknowledgment, at least she has done things wrong. It is pure victimhood.

I think King Felipe gave his sister a period to make a gesture with the Crown and citizens ... even offered his hand allowing her to be with her daughter at Leonor´s communion as a gesture of goodwill. But the deadline passed, and again Cristina did nothing. She knew this was coming and had prepared her strategy.

On the subject of the trial is expected to take place in 2016. There are so many proofs and evidences against Inaki Urdangarin, thet everyone believes that it is impossible that he does not end up in jail.

The case of Infanta Cristina is weaker, and the public prosecution has supported her ... so she may be able to escape without conviction or with one (less than 2 years) that does not force her to go to prison.
 
[...] you deal with the consequences of what your actions have been.

That is the point. The whole case is still under investigation and Justice has not spoken at all. The Infanta has only been charged for two possible attemps of tax evasion, all other charges, for an example money laundering, have all been rejected.

When all people are equal for law, then Infanta Doña Cristina can possibly escape sitting on the accused bench, if jurisprudence from another case is used. The jurisprudence by the Spanish Supreme Court, known as the Botín Doctrine, says that a charged person will not stand trial if only a popular accusation is against him. That is to say: if the Prosecutor does not accuse Infanta Doña Cristina. In this case neither the Prosecutor nor the State Attorney have considered tax evasion for granted, and so the case could be archived, if it was Mrs Cristina Smith and not Doña Cristina de Borbón. So the case is not treated equal for law.

The prosecutor, Mr Pedro Horrach, even accused -before the judges of the Palma de Mallorca Tribunal- that the examinating magistrate, Mr José Castro, had "a certain personal obsession with this matter" and there was "an absolute lack of incriminating acts." The prosecutor (mind you, not the lawyers of the Infanta!) considered Mr Castro had been influenced by the media and as a result a second -public- trail was being played out.

It is interesting to see many fellow-posters on this forum shouting that the Infanta should be crucified but when even the public prosection (!) sees little grounds so far in the case of the Infanta, the outcome of an eventual lawsuit (and appeals) are not at all for granted. Despite all this, the Infanta's brother, the one whom seems to have lost his backbone, has just acted to please the public. Her brother should do some audition for the role of Pontius Pilatus: "See, I wash my hands in innocence! Here is my very own sister, I throw my own next of kin before you, the hungry pack..."

:ermm:

When the Infanta would be convicted for tax avoiding (a popular sport in Spain anyway) then the King can stand on his principles and say: "Justice has spoken. Justice will be done. Infanta Doña Cristina will no longer be the Duchess of Palma de Mallorca. A Bill will be sent to the Congress to remove her from the line of succession". Then he had firm grounds for his acts. Not now. And as stated: what when the Court of Justice sees no clear and convincing evidence without reasonable doubt and only has hearsay and un-authenticated sources as grounds and declares the Infanta free of all charges? Again: the Public Prosecution (!) wanted the Infanta to leave as a free woman and it is only to fierce protests of the examinating magistrate that the Infanta still is in the twilight zone.

What an ill-thought (ill-advised?) mess the King has made for himself and his family. Pffff... There goes the image of Felipe The Great.
 
Last edited:
King Felipe strips sister Infanta Cristina of title - hellomagazine.com

So, after Felipe revoke Cristina's title, is this means that there will be a trial soon for her and her husband?

The trial was on anyway,with or without a title,any title.

Felipe sets the example by which he feels the Members of his House should
behave and be examplary in their position.She,haughty Christina,brought up
in that House,knowing the Rules full well and then thinking she and that looser
could get away with fraud on any scale?Nope!

The trial is for this fall.
 
On the subject of the trial is expected to take place in 2016. There are so many proofs and evidences against Inaki Urdangarin, thet everyone believes that it is impossible that he does not end up in jail.

The case of Infanta Cristina is weaker, and the public prosecution has supported her ... so she may be able to escape without conviction or with one (less than 2 years) that does not force her to go to prison.

The more I read, the more I get the feeling that perhaps the removal of the ducal title from this couple is more or less aimed at not Cristina herself, but to downgrade Inaki.
 
Back
Top Bottom