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  #381  
Old 12-18-2016, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Sometimes a simple statement says far more than a 3000 word thesis and this one fits the best for me.

No matter what the outcome of this lengthly trial or whatever sentence is passed down to either Inaki or Cristina, the fact that there even was a trial will remain as the black mark against these people's characters. There will be no coming back from it as people have long memories.
thanks Osipi i enjoyed reading someone else shared this view.
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  #382  
Old 12-18-2016, 12:26 PM
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I believe even if this judge finds this couple innocent of all charges {which I doubt} and backs up his opinion with a 500 page thesis, there will always be a cloud over them. Right or wrong, that it just how people are. Their name will always be footnoted with this trial. That is their problem and it is a shame they let it all happen. My concern is for those lovely children. They too will carry this scandal over them for the rest of their lives. They are the precious innocents that the news media will always be watching to see how something like this affects them. It will be more blood for the press' greedy little stories and photos. I truly hope that all the royals circle around them when needed as they are in for a rough few years and will need unconditional love.
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  #383  
Old 12-18-2016, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Alondra View Post
Frankly, they can all go to hell. I want my Head of State to have principles and Felipe is a principled man.
He was so principled that he stood watching what Inaki had been doing for for many years, doing nothing. He posed with him at his birthday party in 2008, remained silent when Inaki got his golden job in Washington, fully aware what was going on, still hoping it would not see the light of day. When it did, Felipe did what he had to, as future King, to avoid further damage and secure what he had been trained for his whole life: becoming King. He may appear principled in public, I am not so sure behind closed doors.
  #384  
Old 12-18-2016, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
He was so principled that he stood watching what Inaki had been doing for for many years, doing nothing. He posed with him at his birthday party in 2008, remained silent when Inaki got his golden job in Washington, fully aware what was going on, still hoping it would not see the light of day. When it did, Felipe did what he had to, as future King, to avoid further damage and secure what he had been trained for his whole life: becoming King. He may appear principled in public, I am not so sure behind closed doors.
Ouch! That's a little harsh don't you think? Felipe and Inaki led pretty much separate lives and still do. They probably did not inquire too deeply into what he was up to as it wasn't considered any of their buisness at the time. Also Inaki was perfectly capable of lying when quizzed about his income, as that is something that is known to happen. Most people often don't enquire too deeply into what their in-laws do for buisness. For all we know you might be correct but since the charges were surprising to most of the SRF, so I'd be willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Felipe on those grounds.
  #385  
Old 12-18-2016, 03:26 PM
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Ouch! That's a little harsh don't you think? Felipe and Inaki led pretty much separate lives and still do. They probably did not inquire too deeply into what he was up to as it wasn't considered any of their buisness at the time. Also Inaki was perfectly capable of lying when quizzed about his income, as that is something that is known to happen. Most people often don't enquire too deeply into what their in-laws do for buisness. For all we know you might be correct but since the charges were surprising to most of the SRF, so I'd be willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Felipe on those grounds.
I am not. If the family had no idea what was going on, why was Inaki being relocated to Washington? 2009 was the point when JC finally put his foot down and forced him to leave NOOS behind (he had told him before, to no avail). So it is safe to say that the matter had been discussed within the family long before 2009. Many people believe in the theory that the relations between Cristina and Letizia went visibly sour (as early as 2006) when the topic Inaki and his dealings with public money became apparent for insiders but it was eventually brushed under the carpet.
  #386  
Old 12-18-2016, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
Felipe and Inaki led pretty much separate lives and still do. They probably did not inquire too deeply into what he was up to as it wasn't considered any of their buisness at the time. Also Inaki was perfectly capable of lying when quizzed about his income, as that is something that is known to happen. Most people often don't enquire too deeply into what their in-laws do for buisness.
the fact that inaki got sent to washington by JC to get him away from continuing his fraudulent business demonstrates very well that the family knew what was going on. i would be very surprised if felipe, as future king, was not told about the situation.

if they had been a normal, commoner family, i agree that felipe may not have necessarily know what was going on, but this is nor just a 'normal' family. their affairs concern the country and their position in power. they are very aware of that. for their own sake, JC and by extension his heir need to pay close attention to the activities that their immediates are leading. do you really think that if the king of spain questioned inaki about his sudden increase in wealth he would be able to give him an excuse not to answer, or to get away with not answering to his satisfaction? this is not just your average mr and mrs jones leaving next door to you and me. it is the head of state and his family, and the best intelligence services at their disposition. they can know whatever they want to know.
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  #387  
Old 12-18-2016, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by carlota View Post
i think that this is because there is an expectation she should have known better. being a representation of the head of state and a well educated woman with many privileges afforded to her through her position, people have high expectations and i don't blame them.



i was very happy seeing felipe revoke her title. it was the only thing under his hand to show his disapproval. i think he may have had an expectations that cristina would give up her title herself (but as you say, she won't because in her head she did nothing wrong, so why should she?). so he took cards in the matter, and did the only thing under his control. i think it was a wise move myself, or all the rubbish of this matter would fly into his yard.

to me, there is no coming back. cristina won't be duchess of palma again.
That's not the way justice is supposed to work in a developed democracy, though. Everyone from King Juan Carlos on down to the op-ed columnists of Spanish papers have been making use of the phrase "justice is equal for all", with the implication that Cristina shouldn't be treated any better than the average citizen. I don't think there's anyone who would disagree with that sentiment, but it works the other way, too. Cristina shouldn't be treated any worse than the average citizen, either, and I think she has been. This case has received so much attention and press coverage right from the start and it's been made into a litmus test for "justice", (where justice is public opinion based on emotion, not facts). The people who have access to all of the facts - ie the prosecutor and the tax authority - declined to prosecute Cristina due to lack of evidence. The group that is accusing her has, from my understanding, made a habit of accusing people and then extorting them, and has now declared bankruptcy because they've been ordered to pay the legal costs of those they've accused (and have been found innocent) and they can't afford it.

Regarding the revocation of the title, in general I think "cowardly" is a strong word to use, but, sadly, IMO it fits Felipe's actions well in this case. "Desperation" being another word that comes to mind. If and when Inaki and/or Cristina are convicted of a crime then yes, it would be appropriate to revoke the title IF Cristina refused to give it up. But to revoke the title while the trial was ongoing, for no other reason than to give himself a temporary boost in public opinion, was a low blow. We'll never know what goes on behind the scenes but, from what I can see, there was no reason Felipe couldn't have waited until the judges released their verdict to take action on the title.

Hopefully the decision won't come back to bite him in the a** because people do have long memories, and the precedent he's set with this decision is that he'll cave to public opinion. He's also set up the expectation of perfection for himself and his own family, which probably doesn't seem like a big deal while his girls are still young, but pretty soon they're going to be teenagers and young adults who may participate in "un-exemplary behavior." It would be interesting to see if he'd sacrifice one of his own children the way he's done with his sister.
  #388  
Old 12-19-2016, 03:20 AM
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One thing is morality, and another is legality... and morally Iñaki and Cristina acted incorrectly, and it is not necessary for a judge to determine that. Iñaki used the title of Duke of Palma, to do business and profit economically in the same city whose title was to honor. Even if there were no offense to judge, acting like that would not be right.

The nobility titles are an honor, and were given to infantas when marrying so that their husbands would enjoy of a title, because the title of Infanta is above the title of nobility.

The city was against them maintaining the title, even eliminated the street with their name... because Iñaki had been enriched with the money of those citizens. For that city was also an offense and a damage to its image.

If there is something decisive in all this case, which makes it of great seriousness morally and that judicially aggravates the prison sentences that request, it is that those businesses were made with PUBLIC MONEY.

It's not business or private favors with rich friends... is a misuse of citizens' tax money that must be used for the benefit of society. If it had been a private matter, the consequences probably would not have been these.

Felipe saves himself, but his obligation is also to save the past (this family knows what exile is), the present and the future of the institution and the family. If there were no Monarchy in Spain, neither Elena nor Cristina and their children would enjoy the social and economic position they have. Their titles, their beneficial works, the financial assistance of their parents... Cristina should know that life in Rome, Lausanne or Estoril was not the idyllic exile that she now lives in Switzerland protected by the power of her father... and should have reflected more on how her attitude could influence the future of the institution and the family, including her own children.
  #389  
Old 12-19-2016, 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
If there is something decisive in all this case, which makes it of great seriousness morally and that judicially aggravates the prison sentences that request, it is that those businesses were made with PUBLIC MONEY.

It's not business or private favors with rich friends... is a misuse of citizens' tax money that must be used for the benefit of society. If it had been a private matter, the consequences probably would not have been these.
That is so true. All the golden jobs, to Jaime, Inaki, Cristina, Elena (same thing in most other royal houses) are private favours, connections, nepotism etc.

Inaki and the public money is different, that makes it so hard to understand that JC not only accepted this in the beginning, but encouraged his son in law with giving his contacts and blessings ....

It says a lot about the family and the idea they had about where they stand in society ... that they are untouchable and can get away with everything.

A million alarm bells should have gone off when Inaki based his business on deals involving public money - but they didn't. The King could simply have said NO to Inaki and give him a piece of mind when he turned down a 200.000 EUR per year job at Laureus, a former handballer with no significant school education (he has a degree but more or less based on being a former sports star). The arrogance is beyond belief.

Together with the Infanta's Caixa job and what else is in the background, they could have gone for a super privileged life, but it wasnt good enough.
  #390  
Old 12-19-2016, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Alondra View Post
You are being pedantic and shouldn't rely too much on wikipedia
I am pedantic, I need pills, etc. I would like it when you would not use adjectives or give medical counsel to fellow posters on the Royal Forums. Thank you very much indeed.
  #391  
Old 12-20-2016, 12:49 AM
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In the long run, the fault/blame is on Inaki and Cristina. The heart of the whole scandal with misuse of public funds is greed and more greed, with the mistaken thinking of, "I'll/We'll never get caught because I'm/We're much smarter than other people and no one will catch on to what's happening." I think in this case the thought that being related/blood family of the King will save us was a primary idea too.
Of course, Cristina has anger at her Father, Brother and Letizia. Letizia was supposedly tipped off by her journalist friends that the scandal was about to break and hence the distance between the Palma's and Felipe and Letizia. Cristina's anger also stems from her perceived betrayal by her Father and Brother, who, as Monarchs were supposed to get the couple off the hook and it didn't happen. The Palma's had to face the consequences of their actions just as a lowly public person would have to in the same act of wrong doing.
They have to live in "exile" from now on.....too bad, their children are affected......should have thought of that, the Palma's didn't, they got caught up in greed and arrogance. Even if both are acquitted, they can't return to Spain, their reputations are in tatters and they would face ridicule and scorn. I wouldn't be surprised if Cristina is acquitted and Inaki does some prison time.....I'm sure he won't receive the same sentence as a member of the ordinary public and he will serve just a fraction of his sentence.
I find it a shame because Cristina was my favorite Spanish Royal and I had read she was a favorite of the Spanish public. I don't find it low that Felipe took away her title during trial, he did what he had to do, he had to save some reputation for the Monarchy and not make it look like he felt his sister was above the law.
  #392  
Old 12-20-2016, 05:19 PM
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Please keep this thread respectful thank you!
  #393  
Old 12-21-2016, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by carlota View Post
more on cristina in this article, titled with what she said in court: 'i can't wait for this to be over so that i don't need to step on this country ever again'

disappointing behaviour for who was formally (and still is 'unofficially' as no one really takes her seriously anymore and was discarded from any official representation) a 'princess of spain'. [madam, if you think spain is not a country you want to 'step in ever again', why not renouncing to your infanta title?]

in the article, they mention that cristina has a good relationship with her mother and sister, but not with her father or brother. speaking as to her family rejecting her she said 'Do you know how hard it is to have to ask permission to get a glass of water in what has been my home for life? ".

cristina and inaki blame letizia for all their evils.

they also say that cristina and inaki 'still don't think they did anything wrong', and she is cited saying that she didn't do anything 'that any other spanish person wouldn't do'. on her leasing of property illegally for the noos foundation she said 'who doesn't do things like these?'. the article says 'she does not show the least remorse or repentment'.

the article also talks about how bad juan valentin has taken this experience.

regarding her presence in this case, Cristina de Borbón replied: "At the beginning of this process they told me not to worry and to be calm because they would not impute me and imputed me; then they told me not to worry because the matter would not go to trial, and I was seated in the Then the court would admit the previous question - the famous doctrine Botín that was used by his lawyers - and that I could go, and here I am ... But, come on, I'm calm". she has internalized that inaki will enter prison, but she isn't giving up her dynastic rights.


Infanta Cristina: "Qué ganas tengo de que acabe esto para no volver a pisar este país" | loc | EL MUNDO



La infanta Cristina: "Estoy encantada de estar aquí"

Infanta Cristina: "I'm delighted to be here"

The sister of Felipe VI, visiting in Barcelona for work reasons, denies having made disrespectful comments about her home country.
  #394  
Old 12-21-2016, 08:00 PM
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What else could Cristina do but deny her remarks when back in Spain? She would have been in a much better position if she would have kept quiet and not commented at all about the case and her family.
  #395  
Old 12-21-2016, 09:01 PM
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What else could Cristina do but deny her remarks when back in Spain? She would have been in a much better position if she would have kept quiet and not commented at all about the case and her family.
Why are you so certain she made the remarks in the first place? My understanding is the columnist has produced no proof whatsoever.

The brilliant part about the article claiming Cristina made those comments is that she has no way to really address the issue. If she denies she made the comments the columnist will say he or she has people who heard the comments in question, (people who wish to remain anonymous, of course).

I think she made the right call in not addressing the gossip directly but rather simply stating that it's nice to be in Spain.
  #396  
Old 12-21-2016, 09:33 PM
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Contrary to the article, I believe Cristina dreams of the day she can return to Spain.
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  #397  
Old 12-21-2016, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
Why are you so certain she made the remarks in the first place? My understanding is the columnist has produced no proof whatsoever.

The brilliant part about the article claiming Cristina made those comments is that she has no way to really address the issue. If she denies she made the comments the columnist will say he or she has people who heard the comments in question, (people who wish to remain anonymous, of course).

I think she made the right call in not addressing the gossip directly but rather simply stating that it's nice to be in Spain.
Well said. I agree. There is absolutely no proof provided that she made the remarks (and I doubt that she did otherwise we would have heard about it a long time ago) but there was almost no good way to address the story. She handled it well.
  #398  
Old 12-21-2016, 11:38 PM
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False media reporting with their made-up stories. Getting to feel that most media outlets hire liars that like to stir the garbage when none available. Don't believe a darn thing anymore unless I witness a person saying something themselves on TV. What a shame the media across the world has sunk this low. There was a time I truly believed all reporters [not tabloid scandal sheets] to give unbiased news. Now, forget it. I don't even watch.
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  #399  
Old 12-22-2016, 12:44 AM
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According to Manuel on the FIMB the journalist writing the original article in which Cristina criticizes Spain and family is a credible and well known in journalism circles and doesn't put out fake stories. The story wasn't posted in a tabloid, but reputable newspaper. Since Manuel lives in Spain, he knows firsthand about what is a tabloid and what's a reputable news source. All of a sudden every story put out now is branded fake news. If the story about Cristina was published in the DM, Sun or National Enquirer, then I give it a big grain of salt. If a story comes out that leaves doubt, then do the research and find other sources to verify or deny it. It's easy to doubt my post, but before condemning it, do your own research.
  #400  
Old 12-22-2016, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Katrianna View Post
According to Manuel on the FIMB the journalist writing the original article in which Cristina criticizes Spain and family is a credible and well known in journalism circles and doesn't put out fake stories. The story wasn't posted in a tabloid, but reputable newspaper. Since Manuel lives in Spain, he knows firsthand about what is a tabloid and what's a reputable news source. All of a sudden every story put out now is branded fake news. If the story about Cristina was published in the DM, Sun or National Enquirer, then I give it a big grain of salt. If a story comes out that leaves doubt, then do the research and find other sources to verify or deny it. It's easy to doubt my post, but before condemning it, do your own research.
Well actually I did via personal friends from Spain and was told to take with a huge grain of salt. Even credible newspapers can get and publish tainted stories. Maybe given wrong information. But if that reporter didn't actually hear the comment or view on tape, it is still up for grabs
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