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  #941  
Old 11-13-2020, 04:25 PM
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It really wasn't very nice if her to say there's a lot of racism in Norway, she has no proof of this. There are many reasons why people may not like her boyfriend, it's a cheap call to put it down to racism.
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  #942  
Old 11-13-2020, 06:34 PM
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I learned all I need to know about him when he said, "I just feel really proud of my woman."
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  #943  
Old 11-13-2020, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
OT, but it slightly begs the question of why she never got professional training and decided to live as a therapist or a teacher or one of the other "ordinary people" she so longed to be.
She did undergo professional training.

https://www.royalcourt.no/artikkel.h...8745&sek=27287
In autumn 1992 Princess Märtha Louise began attending Bjørknes Privatskole in Oslo. She subsequently pursued a physiotherapy education programme at Oslo University College. After finishing the programme, the Princess completed her practical training in Maastricht, the Netherlands. In December 1997 she was awarded her formal qualification as a physiotherapist, and in 2000 she qualified as a Rosen practitioner.
In 2002 she renounced her rights to a taxpayer-funded allowance and a role as a working royal member of the Royal House, so that she could seek a non-royal career.


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Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
ML wants to have her cake and eat it too. Reminds me of when Princess Madeleine of Sweden wanted her children to lead private lives but still wanted to keep their princely titles.
I'm quite sure Princess Madeleine of Sweden never stated that her children should lead private lives while still keeping their princely titles. And following the King of Sweden's decision that his younger children's children should lead private lives without titles connected to membership of the Royal House, she stated that she and her husband welcomed the decision wholeheartedly.


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Originally Posted by caethi View Post
I learned all I need to know about him when he said, "I just feel really proud of my woman."
What do you mean?
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  #944  
Old 11-13-2020, 09:40 PM
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I think some people get confused. They think 'royal title' means it comes with funding and roles and such.

In reality in the more 'slimmed down' monarchies there are plenty of royals with titles (in some cases a different title like Prince of Nassau instead of Prince of Luxembourg) who will never be working royals. Madeleine's children have titles like Princess Beatrice and Eugenie, and like them, were never likely to have worked. Even with the proclamation. The titles don't come with any actual role, or power, or money from the government. The only money Madeleine and CP get from the government comes from their father's money.

Martha Louise took a step back from royal duties, and gave up her HRH, so she could make her own money. Honestly more royals should be allowed to do so. There should at least be a balance. Even in the UK they don't need that many full time royals. The York girls have proven you can balance a full time job with a dozen or so patronages.


The problem with ML is not that she went private and gave up her duties. A lot of people would be happy for one less royal to fund. It's what she did with it. It was the whole 'speaking to angels'. Even without her HRH, people know she is the daughter of the king, and what she chooses to do does cause talk.


Now she is dating this Shamen, with all these 'new age' ideas, and people are concerned that he will lead her even further down her questionable angel path. And more then that, concern for her daughters who are minors.
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  #945  
Old 11-13-2020, 10:57 PM
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Honestly I don't care what ML and her boyfriend is doing, personally I found they are annoyingly bizarre. What I concern is her daughters, they had lost their father, ML might be still a caring, supportive mother, but I am not sure the people around her would be a good influence to her daughter, especially they are still minors, still rely on their mother. (I agree with Muhler, Maud seems very, or even too mature for her age, because she has to!)

Would be interesting to see the Norwegians' opinion on ML.
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  #946  
Old 11-13-2020, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
She did undergo professional training.



https://www.royalcourt.no/artikkel.h...8745&sek=27287


In autumn 1992 Princess Märtha Louise began attending Bjørknes Privatskole in Oslo. She subsequently pursued a physiotherapy education programme at Oslo University College. After finishing the programme, the Princess completed her practical training in Maastricht, the Netherlands. In December 1997 she was awarded her formal qualification as a physiotherapist, and in 2000 she qualified as a Rosen practitioner.


In 2002 she renounced her rights to a taxpayer-funded allowance and a role as a working royal member of the Royal House, so that she could seek a non-royal career.









I'm quite sure Princess Madeleine of Sweden never stated that her children should lead private lives while still keeping their princely titles. And following the King of Sweden's decision that his younger children's children should lead private lives without titles connected to membership of the Royal House, she stated that she and her husband welcomed the decision wholeheartedly.









What do you mean?


“My woman” ? As in the woman I own?
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  #947  
Old 11-14-2020, 12:15 AM
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I tend to view someone who says "my man" or "my woman" as someone that is equating another person along the same lines as "my car" or "my purse" or "my lunch". A possession they have.

Its no wonder that as the decades passed and equality for women gained more and more momentum in our societies that any man that would refer to his life partner as "the little woman" should be on the alert for an "angry little woman with a cast iron frying pan" purposely fitting the stereotype. Its demeaning.

Remnants of a purely patriarchal society which thankfully is on its way out the door.
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  #948  
Old 11-14-2020, 12:16 AM
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It is equality though. Plenty of women will say 'yeah that's my man'. Just 'thats the guy I am with'.

Its not 'I am own them like a possession'. Its stating that the person is Taken as in off the market.


"My little woman' has totally different meaning.
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  #949  
Old 11-14-2020, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
I think some people get confused. They think 'royal title' means it comes with funding and roles and such.

In reality in the more 'slimmed down' monarchies there are plenty of royals with titles (in some cases a different title like Prince of Nassau instead of Prince of Luxembourg) who will never be working royals. Madeleine's children have titles like Princess Beatrice and Eugenie, and like them, were never likely to have worked. Even with the proclamation. The titles don't come with any actual role, or power, or money from the government. The only money Madeleine and CP get from the government comes from their father's money.

Martha Louise took a step back from royal duties, and gave up her HRH, so she could make her own money. Honestly more royals should be allowed to do so. There should at least be a balance. Even in the UK they don't need that many full time royals. The York girls have proven you can balance a full time job with a dozen or so patronages.


The problem with ML is not that she went private and gave up her duties. A lot of people would be happy for one less royal to fund. It's what she did with it. It was the whole 'speaking to angels'. Even without her HRH, people know she is the daughter of the king, and what she chooses to do does cause talk.


Now she is dating this Shamen, with all these 'new age' ideas, and people are concerned that he will lead her even further down her questionable angel path. And more then that, concern for her daughters who are minors.
I have no problem with her using her title privately and I know she doesn't receive any money for the Norwegian tax payers and I'm not one of them so that's not necessarily my place to bitch about it even if she was.

However the royal court itself was extremely unhappy with her using her title to make money and even more unhappy that she was using it in such a controversial way. That's why she had to change the stage show's name from "The Princess and the Shaman" to "The Shaman and Martha Louise" as well as other webinars because she had previously agreed not to use her royal title for any commercial ventures. She apologised for the hurt/damage she had caused her family. And kept on pushing the use anyway because she knows "Princess" is like fairy dust even if people had never heard of her.

It would be the same if Prince Louis set up a law firm called "The Prince Louis of Luxembourg Firm" or Eugenie or Beatrice "HRH Princess Beatrice Technology Consulting Office and Art Gallery" instead of using "Louis de Nassau" and "Beatrice York". There's a difference between being a royal that works and has a lot of short cuts and interest because people know who they are and being a royal that 100% trades on their title and connections for business. David Lindley for example has always used his name in his business and artistic endeavours but not his title.

I also don't have a problem with her interest in new age ideas and non conformist people, her first husband certainly fit that bill but for lack of a better analogy it's one think to do nature rituals and talk to angel whilst USING GOOP products, it's quite another to peddle the ideas and products yourself using a title and lifestyle that you claim you hated everything about to reach a wide audience because you know they wouldn't be as interested in plain Martha Louise.
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  #950  
Old 11-14-2020, 03:24 AM
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This beautiful song is also titled: "My Woman, My Woman, My Wife":

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  #951  
Old 11-14-2020, 06:46 AM
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It is really sad Shaman was with the Royal Family at the Christmas Office in 2019.

Did the Court do any comment about their supposed Wedding ?
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  #952  
Old 11-14-2020, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
It is really sad Shaman was with the Royal Family at the Christmas Office in 2019.

Did the Court do any comment about their supposed Wedding ?
No just comments that from Durek that he was planning to propose on their trip to Hawaii and had allegedly received her parents' blessing at Christmas. This was all before Ari's death.

The court hasn't announced anything official but considering the couple are openly talking about it to a major magazine, it's just a matter of time. It's not like her parents would be able to refuse permission even if they did have misgivings.
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  #953  
Old 11-14-2020, 01:14 PM
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Why would the King give his permission for her to marry this, let me be kind SNAKE OIL SELLER, be part of his family. Maybe the Shaman believes, marrying into the First Family of the Country makes him legit.? As I said it before this man makes me very uncomfortable.
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  #954  
Old 11-14-2020, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
No just comments that from Durek that he was planning to propose on their trip to Hawaii and had allegedly received her parents' blessing at Christmas. This was all before Ari's death.

The court hasn't announced anything official but considering the couple are openly talking about it to a major magazine, it's just a matter of time. It's not like her parents would be able to refuse permission even if they did have misgivings.
Do you mean technically, legally or because of their love for their daughter?

Doesn't she need her father's permission to marry in order to remain in the line of succession? Of course, she can decide to marry without his permission but that will have the consequence that she is removing herself from the line of succession (which is in practice most likely inconsequential as her brother has two children) - that would create an ever bigger distinction between her and the rest of the royal family.

If the king decides to formally give her permission, it really begs the question if there is anyone that he would not officially approve of (and I do recognize their tolerance level seems rather high - likely because they themselves were refused for so many years).
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  #955  
Old 11-14-2020, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Do you mean technically, legally or because of their love for their daughter?

Doesn't she need her father's permission to marry in order to remain in the line of succession? Of course, she can decide to marry without his permission but that will have the consequence that she is removing herself from the line of succession (which is in practice most likely inconsequential as her brother has two children) - that would create an ever bigger distinction between her and the rest of the royal family.

If the king decides to formally give her permission, it really begs the question if there is anyone that he would not officially approve of (and I do recognize their tolerance level seems rather high - likely because they themselves were refused for so many years).
If she were going to elope, she probably would have done it by now.

Harald deeply loves his family (including ML's daughters), and I'm not sure how he would be able to welcome such a dishonest person not only into that family, but to have to give royal approval as well. No matter how much he wants to be at peace or have ML (temporarily) happy.

The question is, why get married? They're together now and seem reasonably happy as they are. Does the publicity of a wedding really outweigh the technical hurdles and the fact Norway will (if her parents manage tolerance, that doesn't mean the country will) probably disown her?
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  #956  
Old 11-14-2020, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Do you mean technically, legally or because of their love for their daughter?

Doesn't she need her father's permission to marry in order to remain in the line of succession? Of course, she can decide to marry without his permission but that will have the consequence that she is removing herself from the line of succession (which is in practice most likely inconsequential as her brother has two children) - that would create an ever bigger distinction between her and the rest of the royal family.

If the king decides to formally give her permission, it really begs the question if there is anyone that he would not officially approve of (and I do recognize their tolerance level seems rather high - likely because they themselves were refused for so many years).
I don't know if she needs her father's permission to marry to stay in the line of succession, although that wasn't really what I meant.

I just meant that if a grown man with his own income (however questionable his business) asks for a parent's blessing on a proposal to his girlfriend who is a divorced mother of three then it's basically just a formality or a "nice gesture" and not one that can really be refused without causing a huge family split.

And in this case ML has already been very willing to throw her parents under the bus. If the King did try and refuse permission then he'd be accused of racism, narrow mindedness, trying to control his daughter and create two victims of "bullying" who carry on doing what they're already doing with less oversight and possibly less contact with their beloved granddaughters. Unless something actually illegal comes out then her parents are in a difficult situation even if they wanted to do something, especially having welcomed a very controversial Crown Princess daughter-in-law.

She has already had her HRH dropped and is not supposed to use her "Princess" title in business, it could be argued that since whilst she is in the line of succession Durek would never have an official title or role in Norway so his impact is lessened. And f not Durek then it might be someone else just as controversial.

Quote:
The question is, why get married? They're together now and seem reasonably happy as they are. Does the publicity of a wedding really outweigh the technical hurdles and the fact Norway (never mind her parents) will probably disown her?
You'd think being such destined free spirit soulmates a conventional marriage would be beneath them. Many people get married even though they don't necessarily "need" to. And in this case there are incentives for both of them.
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  #957  
Old 11-14-2020, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Do you mean technically, legally or because of their love for their daughter?

Doesn't she need her father's permission to marry in order to remain in the line of succession? Of course, she can decide to marry without his permission but that will have the consequence that she is removing herself from the line of succession (which is in practice most likely inconsequential as her brother has two children) - that would create an ever bigger distinction between her and the rest of the royal family.

If the king decides to formally give her permission, it really begs the question if there is anyone that he would not officially approve of (and I do recognize their tolerance level seems rather high - likely because they themselves were refused for so many years).

Yes, their tolerance levels are very high, and certainly much higher than in other Royal Families. I also think the explanation for that is to be found in their own history. After all, these are two people who had to wait for 9 years until they were allowed to marry and suffered greatly from it.
I don't remember whether it was Harald or Sonja, but one of them has said in an interview that after what they went through, they promised themselves that their children would one day be allowed to marry whoever they chose. That explains why they warmly welcomed Mette-Marit and Ari.

Granted, the shaman seems to be pushing even their tolerance levels. ML has made it clear in the interview that they have had misgivings. Based on the interview, we can also assume that Sonja was probably more vocal about them.
However, Scandinavian media reports also suggest that Harald was angry when ML flew off to Los Angeles with her daughters on a whim when she realized that border closures were imminent. Likewise, it has been suggested that Harald vetoed the shaman's attendance of Leah's confirmation.

I think they made Märtha aware of their concerns, probably even tried to convince her that this was not the right partner for her (thus her anger, which is apparent in the interview!) But it is very obvious that she did not and will not listen.
Therefore, they have probably given their permission for a possible marriage, not only because of their own history, but because it still seems preferable to having Märtha run off to California with the shaman & their grandchildren, and the likely rift that would create.
In that scenario, they probably wouldn't see much of Märtha or her daughters anymore - which they might wish to avoid at any cost. What choice do they really have? Yes, they could deny permission. But then ML, as we know her, would still marry the shaman, no matter if she lost her place in succession because of it, and they would lose their daughter.

It's clear that if she wants to, Märtha will marry the shaman - with or without permission. So there's then no real point in denying permission because they can't ultimately stop her.
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  #958  
Old 11-14-2020, 05:03 PM
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It's clear that if she wants to, Märtha will marry the shaman - with or without permission. So there's then no real point in denying permission because they can't ultimately stop her.
The main point for refusal from my point of view would be to acknowledge the country's misgivings about ML's potential spouse.

Maybe someone from Norway can explain to us the exact procedure in Norway: is it just the king that has to give permission? Are there any others involved who need to approve? Or can Märtha Louise marry whomever she wants without any consequences to her place in line of succession?

N.B. I still wonder why other countries don't adopt the Dutch requirement for parliamentary permission as that ensures that family dynamics cannot one-sidedly decide on these issues (and wouldn't lessen the blow; it is easier to accept that parliament doesn't approve than that your parent doesn't - even if for dynastic reasons).
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  #959  
Old 11-14-2020, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by sophie25 View Post
It really wasn't very nice if her to say there's a lot of racism in Norway, she has no proof of this. There are many reasons why people may not like her boyfriend, it's a cheap call to put it down to racism.
Eh? There's racism everywhere. There shouldn't be, but it's a fact there is. There is a whole Wikipedia topic dedicated to Norwegian racism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Racism_in_Norway

ML has very good experience of racism in Norway because, sadly, of her boyfriend's skin colour. Many rural parts of the country are still quite monocultural, it tends to be bigger cities and towns that are more multicultural.
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  #960  
Old 11-14-2020, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
The main point for refusal from my point of view would be to acknowledge the country's misgivings about ML's potential spouse.

Maybe someone from Norway can explain to us the exact procedure in Norway: is it just the king that has to give permission? Are there any others involved who need to approve? Or can Märtha Louise marry whomever she wants without any consequences to her place in line of succession?

N.B. I still wonder why other countries don't adopt the Dutch requirement for parliamentary permission as that ensures that family dynamics cannot one-sidedly decide on these issues (and wouldn't lessen the blow; it is easier to accept that parliament doesn't approve than that your parent doesn't - even if for dynastic reasons).
Most Continental monarchies have de facto a parliament/government veto in place if need be.
While the Monarch has sovereignty over his/her family matters it is still subject to political concerns. And if it is known that the parliament is against a marriage, there will be no royal permission.
It does admittedly have to be a very serious case before a government informs the monarch that it cannot approve a marriage.

But the Durek-ML relationship is getting close to the point where I believe the Norwegian government will strongly advise against it - if they hasn't already done so. And if need be pressure the King to strip ML of as much of her royal status as at all possible, should she go ahead anyway.
The next step would be a statement from a majority in the Parliament directly expressing its disapproval.
It would indeed lead to a crisis in Norway as the Parliament would publicly infringe in the internal family matters of the NRF.

However, had ML been the crown princess, there would be no way in this world the Parliament would vote in favor of the marriage, even if the King approved it. Simply wouldn't happen!
So there would never be an announcement of engagement, never any public discord between the government (and Parliament), never a vote in the Parliament going against such marriage, because the King would not go against the Parliament.

It only confirms my impression that ML is extremely selfish.
It's her needs only!
That she would put her father and brother in an embarrassing situation by insisting to marry a very controversial person (because we are indeed heading in that direction) is not her concern. That's what she wants, and the that's what she expects to have.
That it may/will lead to leading politicians to publicly denounce their relationship is not her concern.
That her father is very likely to be put under tremendous pressure to not approve of the marriage, is not something that concerns her.
In fact the narrative of her, the rebel, the one without racial prejudices, the free spirit who will not be confined to a box, suits her fine. Both commercially and in the view I believe she has of herself.
It's very difficult to appeal to a very selfish person to be reasonable, because such a person cannot fathom that other people may have needs and concerns that overrules her own.
You see, it's not her fault, if her and Durek's relationship causes a crisis in Norway. It cannot be her fault. It's everybody else's fault. So according to that logic, those who are against their relationship are racists. - And that, dear fellow TRF members, includes us. We are racists. We are intolerant. We are narrow minded. We are petty.
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